World's Greatest Comic: The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2022

[danielsan52]

I hope Johnny keeps his power boost and instead of being cured, he learns to control it.

He should be Iceman levels of power but with fire.

I agree on power boost but not on Iceman’s level.

Sue is and should always be the most powerful of the original four.

John should be stuck in this form for a looong while. He should be able to learn other flame forms for once , blue, white, even a fictional green, etc.

He should explore heat absorption more by absorbing all of the heat around and freezing a room or opponent.

He should go back to making duplicates.

But again, not god like powers.

[Oberon]

Sounds right. John/ny had some experience with colored flames back in old Strange Tales, against the Wizard. Moody artwork remains in my mind.

[Iron Maiden]

Good grief. I am really out of touch with the X-Men since I seldom read it. Since when did Iceman become someone to be feared? He's be useless in the desert or some other warm climate where evaporation could just diminish his ice effect. In the RW, global warming is causing skyscraper sized chucks to melt and drop into the ocean. Johnny could just melt him.

[Thundershot]

Good grief. I am really out of touch with the X-Men since I seldom read it. Since when did Iceman become someone to be feared? He's be useless in the desert or some other warm climate where evaporation could just diminish his ice effect. In the RW, global warming is causing skyscraper sized chucks to melt and drop into the ocean. Johnny could just melt him.

He had a power boost in the 80’s X-Factor to the point where he had a belt to keep his powers in check. Then the big change was when Emma Frost took over his body in the 90’s and was able to BECOME ice (which was how AOA Iceman was, so it was foreshadowed).

Sorry for going off topic…. Oh, wait, Iceman is an official member of the FF now! lol

[Reviresco]

I hope Johnny keeps his power boost and instead of being cured, he learns to control it.

He should be Iceman levels of power but with fire.

I'm probably alone in this opinion, but I don't really care for power boosts for characters. It just means the stories have to be BIGGGGGER and the threat HUGE to compensate for the power boost. It actually ends up limiting the characters, IMO, because then you have to come up with all sorts of contrivances to explain why they got taken out by something less than Galactus level.

One of the best scenes for Johnny was when he sacrificed himself to save the world from Annhilus.





If he'd had the power upgrade to wipe everything out, well, there would have been no knowing sacrifice -- just another day at the superhero office being FABULOUS!

Iceman is freezing planets and practically can't die in ice form.

Johnny by comparison has been less impressive. He usually goes nova, which isn't as effective as it was decades ago, and then faints from it. It's said that he has the power of a sun, but it's never really shown. I want to see that explosive, immense power not told he has it. He was honestly more impressive in the silver age than he is in modern Marvel, which is weird considering he should be getting stronger like the other members of the FF.

I actually like that cost for exceeding his 'normal' power levels. I liked Storm a lot better when it cost her to use her weather powers, as well as disturbed weather patterns adversely.

But again, I realize I'm probably in the minority. There wouldn't be as many 'respect' threads, or feat obsessed fans, or battle boards otherwise.

[Crimz]

I feel like it's probably a case of seeing ice powers as more non-lethal and solid and not necessarily as destructive as flame powers can be if left unchecked. Like, maybe Johnny has enough skill and finesse to not go over that line, but it might be hard to depict that without giving him an excuse or stuff to burn or go all out against.

I can understand that but with the cosmic beings they often face, you can give him a real show more often than they do. I just dislike how often he's treated more of an annoyance easily gotten rid of than a serious threat. I do understand that a big part of that is lack of creativity from writers.

I agree on power boost but not on Iceman’s level.

Sue is and should always be the most powerful of the original four.

John should be stuck in this form for a looong while. He should be able to learn other flame forms for once , blue, white, even a fictional green, etc.

He should explore heat absorption more by absorbing all of the heat around and freezing a room or opponent.

He should go back to making duplicates.

But again, not god like powers.

Sue would still be the most powerful member, I just see her and Johnny's forte's being different things. Like Sue's specialty is defense while Johnny's is offense. Johnny can still be powerful without taking away from Sue. An easy way to show this is to just have her force-fields still able to protect from Johnny's power like they've always have.

I agree with all that, but I don't see the problem with him being Iceman's level. He'd still have weaknesses and limits, especially because flames are easy to extinguish compared to getting rid of ice.

I'm probably alone in this opinion, but I don't really care for power boosts for characters. It just means the stories have to be BIGGGGGER and the threat HUGE to compensate for the power boost. It actually ends up limiting the characters, IMO, because then you have to come up with all sorts of contrivances to explain why they got taken out by something less than Galactus level.

One of the best scenes for Johnny was when he sacrificed himself to save the world from Annhilus.





If he'd had the power upgrade to wipe everything out, well, there would have been no knowing sacrifice -- just another day at the superhero office being FABULOUS!




I actually like that cost for exceeding his 'normal' power levels. I liked Storm a lot better when it cost her to use her weather powers, as well as disturbed weather patterns adversely.

But again, I realize I'm probably in the minority. There wouldn't be as many 'respect' threads, or feat obsessed fans, or battle boards otherwise.

I don't think it's limiting when it comes to the FF considering the types of power they are usually up against. They literally started the current run fighting a cosmic god. They've already outgrown their more lower level threats like Wizard, Red Ghost etc. Also, Johnny having a boost in power wouldn't put him on the level of their cosmic threats as they are so above and beyond, and Doom is Doom so he's always a threat. I don't see the issue. Most FF stories end with Reed saving the day while the others just buy him time, I'd rather that change than have them be the same level of power and always leaving it to Reed.

The Annihilus moment was great, but could also happen the exact same way even if he was stronger. I'm not saying make him limitless, just have him be an actual threat to the villains and his power be potent again. I've seen too many stories where he throws a fireball that does less than nothing and is then knocked out. The guy is living flame, give him more moments that show how powerful and scary that can be.

I have no problem with his Nova taking him out after using it, in fact I like it. What I don't like is how ineffective it is. It's his most powerful move and should be a last resort that either finishes things or at least makes a big difference to the fight. Instead it often does nothing but take Johnny out of commission.

[alanyoung909]

I hope Johnny keeps his power boost and instead of being cured, he learns to control it.

He should be Iceman levels of power but with fire.

Johnny's current situation is completely unfeasible in the long-term though.
He can't eat or drink (Reed has to feed him intravenously with an adamantium syringe), he can't touch anyone (so he can't get intimate with anyone) or anything (he has to live in an underground fire-proofed subbasement).
I know you've made a comparison with Iceman, but at least Bobby can switch between his human and ice forms at will, Johnny is just sentient fire at this point.

Also Dan Slott is one of those nostalgia-minded creators who believe that altering a FF team member's powers too much will adversely affect the team dynamic.
I mean this is practically the reason he gave for depowering Franklin - he believed that Franklin's universe-creating powers altered the team dynamic too much.

I think what will happen is that Slott will have some fun with Johnny's new powers in the Reckoning War (Johnny will probably defeat Annihilus in their rematch, beat up some of the Prosilicans) and then cure Johnny post-Reckoning War as he wraps his run up.

Based on everything Slott has written so far, here's my prediction on how I think it will go:
Sky (who went back to Spyre in Fantastic Four 36 to find a cure for cosmic ray mutations) returns to Earth with information from the Overseer regarding cosmic ray mutates.
Reed / Valeria / Doom / Dragon Man / Bentley-23 build a machine that can transfer bio-cosmic energy from one individual to another.
They use the machine to extract the excess cosmic energy from Johnny (and Sky) and transfer it to Franklin.
Johnny and Sky then begin a proper romantic relationship without any of the predestined soulband stuff.

The net effect of this is that by the end of the Dan Slott run, Johnny will be back to his traditional power set but will a power boost so that Slott can claim he left a mark on the character.
Franklin regains his reality-warping powers (without any of his power depletion problems), but they will be a much more toned down version of them - instead of warping universes, he will be warping city-blocks.

[danielsan52]

Based on everything Slott has written so far, here's my prediction on how I think it will go:
Sky (who went back to Spyre in Fantastic Four 36 to find a cure for cosmic ray mutations) returns to Earth with information from the Overseer regarding cosmic ray mutates.
Reed / Valeria / Doom / Dragon Man / Bentley-23 build a machine that can transfer bio-cosmic energy from one individual to another.
They use the machine to extract the excess comic energy from Johnny (and Sky) and transfer it to Franklin.
Johnny and Sky then begin a proper romantic relationship without any of the predestined soulband stuff..

I was also wondering if Sky going back to Spyre might lead to a fix for Johnny and her..... this could also cure Ben and Sharon....this could also be used to depower the entire team and the U-Foes.

[CaptCleghorn]

Good grief. I am really out of touch with the X-Men since I seldom read it. Since when did Iceman become someone to be feared? He's be useless in the desert or some other warm climate where evaporation could just diminish his ice effect. In the RW, global warming is causing skyscraper sized chucks to melt and drop into the ocean. Johnny could just melt him.

Iceman's power (and I haven't read much X either and will accept correction if I misspeak) is not so much cold but a cancellation of energy which was most evident with heat. He also showed a control of moisture and water back in his New Defenders stint. He doesn't deal with just low temperatures, he somehow eliminates the energy inherent in heat. Absolute zero is the absence of any heat, energy, or motion. Wasn't a lot of his power boost due to his realization of what he could do based on Emma Frost's observations when she has his body? Bobby may be better off studying physics and thermodynamics rather than accounting.

As to Johnny's power boost, since Hickman's run he's lost his powers twice, once during Robinson's run and again during Marvel Two-In-One. What did he have before Doom did his thing? Who knows? But control is big. Where he basically has the same powers he did before, it's like the difference between a mini-bike and a souped-up motorcycle. Riding one isn't the same as riding the other. Can he eventually flame off in his current state? That's still a mystery. But all of the FF have had issues with control of their powers. Ben's psychological issues with changing as seen in the first Secret Wars might be a similar situation to Johnny's current state. It's Slott's story and hopefully he handles it in a way we like.

Based on everything Slott has written so far, here's my prediction on how I think it will go:
Sky (who went back to Spyre in Fantastic Four 36 to find a cure for cosmic ray mutations) returns to Earth with information from the Overseer regarding cosmic ray mutates.
Reed / Valeria / Doom / Dragon Man / Bentley-23 build a machine that can transfer bio-cosmic energy from one individual to another.
They use the machine to extract the excess comic energy from Johnny (and Sky) and transfer it to Franklin.
Johnny and Sky then begin a proper romantic relationship without any of the predestined soulband stuff.

The net effect of this is that by the end of the Dan Slott run, Johnny will be back to his traditional power set but will a power boost so that Slott can claim he left a mark on the character.
Franklin regains his reality-warping powers (without any of his power depletion problems), but they will be a much more toned down version of them - instead of warping universes, he will be warping city-blocks.

I think this is a perceptive and logical assessment.

[Reviresco]

I can understand that but with the cosmic beings they often face, you can give him a real show more often than they do. I just dislike how often he's treated more of an annoyance easily gotten rid of than a serious threat. I do understand that a big part of that is lack of creativity from writers.



Sue would still be the most powerful member, I just see her and Johnny's forte's being different things. Like Sue's specialty is defense while Johnny's is offense. Johnny can still be powerful without taking away from Sue. An easy way to show this is to just have her force-fields still able to protect from Johnny's power like they've always have.

I agree with all that, but I don't see the problem with him being Iceman's level. He'd still have weaknesses and limits, especially because flames are easy to extinguish compared to getting rid of ice.



I don't think it's limiting when it comes to the FF considering the types of power they are usually up against. They literally started the current run fighting a cosmic god. They've already outgrown their more lower level threats like Wizard, Red Ghost etc. Also, Johnny having a boost in power wouldn't put him on the level of their cosmic threats as they are so above and beyond, and Doom is Doom so he's always a threat. I don't see the issue. Most FF stories end with Reed saving the day while the others just buy him time, I'd rather that change than have them be the same level of power and always leaving it to Reed.

The Annihilus moment was great, but could also happen the exact same way even if he was stronger. I'm not saying make him limitless, just have him be an actual threat to the villains and his power be potent again. I've seen too many stories where he throws a fireball that does less than nothing and is then knocked out. The guy is living flame, give him more moments that show how powerful and scary that can be.

I have no problem with his Nova taking him out after using it, in fact I like it. What I don't like is how ineffective it is. It's his most powerful move and should be a last resort that either finishes things or at least makes a big difference to the fight. Instead it often does nothing but take Johnny out of commission.

I think Johnny's Nova flame doesn't live up to it's name. I mean, if is as hot as an exploding sun, then ... well, he certainly couldn't use it while standing on Earth. But I agree. I think alot of the problem is due to writer's not wanting to deal with Johnny or doing so with the least amount of thought.

Iceman is now classified as an Omega Level Mutant, and by definition, that means his power is practically limitless -- it has an "undefinable upper limit of that power's specific classification." If that was the level of Johnny's flame, or even if was was powerful as it is now, then no, I don't think the Annihilus moment could have happened. Nothing could get close enough to hurt him without melting. He could have melted the entire asteroid / planet they were on.

That's my point. When you have characters that are so super-powered, they are LIMITED to fighting only OMG Extinction Level threats. My own personal preference is I don't usually enjoy books where every threat they face is EXTREME and escalating from there. But again, that's just me.

[U.N. Owen]

I hope Johnny keeps his power boost and instead of being cured, he learns to control it.

He should be Iceman levels of power but with fire.

The issue with this is that, assuming Iceman's Omega Level Mutant status allows him to reach absolute zero, would be that Johnny would end up more broken than Iceman. Absolute zero is neat and all, but absolute hot (Planck Temperature) could reasonably have Johnny overshadow Franklin.

The Planck Temperature is when physics as we know it just breaks. The gravity from the constant streams of radiation pouring out from particles makes gravity, the weakest of the fundamental forces in the universe, stand on equal footing with other forces. It's essentially a sledge hammer to physics. It makes him the perfect killer of reality warpers.

[Crimz]

I think Johnny's Nova flame doesn't live up to it's name. I mean, if is as hot as an exploding sun, then ... well, he certainly couldn't use it while standing on Earth. But I agree. I think alot of the problem is due to writer's not wanting to deal with Johnny or doing so with the least amount of thought.

Iceman is now classified as an Omega Level Mutant, and by definition, that means his power is practically limitless -- it has an "undefinable upper limit of that power's specific classification." If that was the level of Johnny's flame, or even if was was powerful as it is now, then no, I don't think the Annihilus moment could have happened. Nothing could get close enough to hurt him without melting. He could have melted the entire asteroid / planet they were on.

That's my point. When you have characters that are so super-powered, they are LIMITED to fighting only OMG Extinction Level threats. My own personal preference is I don't usually enjoy books where every threat they face is EXTREME and escalating from there. But again, that's just me.

I think the Annihilus thing would play out pretty much the same because Annihilus is extremely powerful with the cosmic control rod. Johnny would go nova taking out a significant number of them and collapse only to be killed by the rest of the wave and Annihilus.

The other threats the FF face are super geniuses who come with all manner of things that easily endanger the FF. Science is the biggest threat to all in the Marvel Universe so those kind of character will always be a threat. The only characters who would be negatively effected are those who the FF have already grown out of like Red Ghost and the Frightful Four. They are characters who haven't been relevant for decades outside of showing up on occasion and not taken seriously. There's a reason Wizard is "attacking" them in the only way he can hurt them by taking Bentley because he hasn't been an actual threat since the 70s.

The issue with this is that, assuming Iceman's Omega Level Mutant status allows him to reach absolute zero, would be that Johnny would end up more broken than Iceman. Absolute zero is neat and all, but absolute hot (Planck Temperature) could reasonably have Johnny overshadow Franklin.

The Planck Temperature is when physics as we know it just breaks. The gravity from the constant streams of radiation pouring out from particles makes gravity, the weakest of the fundamental forces in the universe, stand on equal footing with other forces. It's essentially a sledge hammer to physics. It makes him the perfect killer of reality warpers.

I think that would be a cool max potential for the character. One of those things where he could potentially attain that level of power in the far future, but we never really see it in the present (except in a special event or something). Using it also means his death of course.

[Alpha to Omega]

The issue with this is that, assuming Iceman's Omega Level Mutant status allows him to reach absolute zero, would be that Johnny would end up more broken than Iceman. Absolute zero is neat and all, but absolute hot (Planck Temperature) could reasonably have Johnny overshadow Franklin.

The Planck Temperature is when physics as we know it just breaks. The gravity from the constant streams of radiation pouring out from particles makes gravity, the weakest of the fundamental forces in the universe, stand on equal footing with other forces. It's essentially a sledge hammer to physics. It makes him the perfect killer of reality warpers.

Johnny actually reached Planck Temperature at the end of Millar’s run when the FF temporarily absorbed all the power from their various alternate reality selves to fight the Marquis of Death.

[Nomads1]

Reckoning War looks so epic!

Sure does. It's been awhile since I've felt slightly excited for anything Marvel is putting out, but I can't wait to read this when the trade comes out (that's basically how I read my comics nowadays).

Peace

[CitizenXXX]

https://www.gamesradar.com/fantastic...review-covers/

I would like to understand what role Franklin is in all this, all of his incarnations are on the cover, but the story is not about him at all.
I thought it would be a story about Franklin's identity crisis or something, we're heading for that, but it doesn't look like it will be in this issue.