"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[gurkle]

But it's all good because we've got Carol and other Avenger ladies .

Don't forget Peggy Carter. Peggy really has become the character people accuse Carol of being, a character who is pushed way out of proportion to her popularity (while her niece Sharon gets the second-biggest character assassination in the MCU).

Not that Carol is being treated that great, since she doesn't even get "Captain Marvel" in the title of her second movie. The MCU does not do great by women and they don't even have another "girl power" shot ready to distract people from it.

[Havok83]

Peggy's popularity is largely due to Hailey Atwell and Marvel finding any reason to have her reprise that role. I dont blame them bc she is awesome and I love seeing her appear any chance we get

[Wiccan]

They put her on Disneyland after this movie. Her "popularity with kids" is fine.

[WallStreeter]

Don't forget Peggy Carter. Peggy really has become the character people accuse Carol of being, a character who is pushed way out of proportion to her popularity (while her niece Sharon gets the second-biggest character assassination in the MCU).

Not that Carol is being treated that great, since she doesn't even get "Captain Marvel" in the title of her second movie. The MCU does not do great by women and they don't even have another "girl power" shot ready to distract people from it.

Carol did amazingly well for a character who wasn’t an Avenger in the MCU, and who is only connected to Nick Fury.

[Galerion]

They put her on Disneyland after this movie. Her "popularity with kids" is fine.

Exactly.
I feel some people are really reaching here but I guess that's nothing new.

[gurkle]

Carol did amazingly well for a character who wasn’t an Avenger in the MCU, and who is only connected to Nick Fury.

I think Carol's movie did fine, which is why I was surprised at Marvel not even giving her the title of her sequel. It's like calling the second Captain America movie "The Americas" or something.

[Havok83]

I think Carol's movie did fine, which is why I was surprised at Marvel not even giving her the title of her sequel. It's like calling the second Captain America movie "The Americas" or something.

we'll have to wait till it comes out but maybe its bc its not a solo film but more of an ensemble. i think a better analogy would be if they called the third Captain America film Civil War instead of Captain America: Civil War bc there is the argument that it could have been released as an Avengers film

[Albert1981]

TBF I don't know what explanation beyond 'parallel universes exist' is needed. The multiverse is a concept as old as time and its roots can be found in religions like Hinduism so it's not like a really difficult and foreign subject to grasp. People get an idea of what it is from the word 'multiverse' itself.

I don't think multiverses are a particular difficult concept to understand. I agree with you there completely. In the first Strange movie, they talked about "dimensions" in the multiverse and I think folks got it. But the MCU is adding "branching timelines", "fixed points", and "nexus events" (amongst other things) to their multiversal stories. They're now trying to distinguish the difference between alternate timelines and alternate realities. And I've read on other forums asking how many universes are there in the multiverse or are there many different multiverses? It's okay to use multiverses in stories once in a while (you don't really need explanations for them in those instances), but Disney's gonna be using multiverses in a LOT of the Phase 4 content. And you need rules for that. And many people have already pointed out the inconsistencies and contradictions in those rules already. Lots of people STILL think that since the MCU introduced "time travel" in its movies, characters can go back in time and bring folks back to life in their OWN timelines. They still ask what Cap was doing during the JFK assassination and on 9/11 in the main timeline (even though he can't prevent those things from happening) because that's not how time travel works in the MCU. By combining time travel and multiverses, things can get REALLY confusing. I'm almost certain a BIG chunk of watchers will struggle with HOW time travel and multiverses work in the MCU, even though they understand what time travel and multiverses ARE.

[Dipter]

Y'know I was thinking about it and realized that Wanda's role in MoM is very similar to Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man 2. I mean, his character arc wasn't anything unique, but the parallels are interesting. They're both good people who turn evil as a result of mind control. Wanda was corrupted by the Darkhold, Octavius was corrupted by the A.I. in his arms. They both kill a bunch of people, then snap back to their senses at the last moment and sacrifice themselves to do the right thing.

[Albert1981]

Multiverse didn't start to be a thing at Marvel until a bit later in it's history. And I have never really been into multiverse nor time travel stuff all that much. There are probably rare stories where it works, but most of the time it's a mess. And I was happy when the incursions caused the other universes to be gone. I especially didn't like the Ultimate universe.

Loki's show was fine, but I hated the merger of Enchantress and Lady Loki into one character and having it be Sylvie. Instead of having those characters individually and giving them time on screen.

I don't know how long Wanda will be gone, but I have a feeling she'll at least make an appearance in Agatha's show which is supposed to release anywhere from mid 2023 to 2024. So we'll see how close that is.

I hope they don't wreck She-Hulk. People already aren't happy with the changes to Ms. Marvel.

I read on Wikipedia that the Marvel multiverse was introduced in its comics in Avengers #85 way back in 1971. I'm old enough to remember when multiverses were strictly the province of Star Trek and Marvel/DC Comics. Now multiverses are totally mainstream. I consider alternate "realities" and time travel to be basically two sides of the same coin. If the MCU introduces "incursions" into its movies and shows, maybe we'll eventually move on from this stuff.

On Loki, I kinda sympathize with what they did. DC already used an Enchantress in their movies. And there's just too many characters in the comics to bring on to the big and small screen. It would be really expensive even for Disney to do that. So I understand why Marvel Studios combined the two characters. I just don't think they did a good job of it in that series, unfortunately. I feel the MCU is already having trouble fleshing out the characters they have ALREADY introduced, never mind new ones. Maybe Olsen will be back in a couple of years. She seemed pretty burned out working two years in a row for Marvel. Look at the rest of the cast from WandaVision. They're doing other things and seem to be pretty happy. I just feel these performers need a break from these huge franchise projects sometimes. There is a LOT of pressure on them these days.

I AM worried about She-Hulk. Ms. Marvel is relatively new to the comics, but She-Hulk has been part of Marvel for decades. I hope they can do her justice. My brother loved Orphan Black, so I definitely think the lead actress in She-Hulk is fully capable of doing a great job. It's the MCU top brass that worries me. I haven't read any rumors online lately, but I'm REALLY hoping they avoid piling in Marvel Netflix characters into that show UNNECESSARILY and UNNATURALLY. I absolutely HATED the way Marvel Studios did it in Hawkeye so much so that I quit watching MCU content for quite some time. It was such a cynical move on their part in my opinion. Plus, I didn't watch the old Marvel TV stuff, so those comic book "boner moments" will be lost on me completely. But I have a feeling Marvel Studios might do that **** again to gin up viewership for Disney Plus and I'm not cool with that AT ALL.

Without giving too much away, I read a review online which stated in the third act of the MoM, there is an emotional moment that does NOT go deep, something that a previous Marvel production already did (I'm assuming WandaVision). I thought composer Christophe Beck did a really good job in WandaVision (he actually surpassed my expectations with his score), but when I heard Danny Elfman was working on the MoM, I thought his would be good too (I'm a HUGE fan of his Batman score). But a reviewer I read mentioned that his score actually UPPED the cringe in a LOT scenes. For emotional scenes NEED good music for them to work. I also read that even the twin boys in the MoM were annoying as hell in Strange 2 (and that they acted way worse than they did in WandaVision). Is all of this stuff true?!

[MaximoffTrash]

Thanks Juan.

When watching it it felt like a scene or two from alternate universe Wanda and her family had been cut.



They picked a hard R horror movie director and told him to film a Witch possessed by an evil book what exactly was one expecting?



Still kids have a short attention span. I suspect any cost in merch sales for Wanda will be quite limited if there is any.

Then how about not doing that?
It is not like I want Raimi and Waldron in the first place lol.

[MaximoffTrash]

They never expected her to get so popular; this is obvious and they've more or less admitted it a few times. (Elizabeth Olsen did an interview recently where she worried that young girls might be looking to Wanda as a role model.) But by the time the show was airing, they were in the middle of filming.

Basically they had their breakout female character and tossed her away (at least for a couple of years) because they couldn't let go of Feige's fixation with turning her evil.

Young girls(or boys, or enbies) should not look up to Wanda because no one should want the life of a shunned wretch, lol.
Wanda even on a meta level is one miserable being who cannot progress without lightning randomly striking at her every now and then.

[Lukmendes]

I mean, surgery can be considered an invasive operation. The way humans "heal" our bodies is rather diverse. It's not as clean cut as "close the wounds".
Also Wanda can heal herself at least in MoM though, she reformed her mangled body after a certain scene.

Huh, so my point was easily dismantled with simple logic and consistency, ****, guess I'm no better than MoM's script .

Indeed. It's still crazy to think that Wanda and Carol Danvers are the most high-profile Marvel superheroines right now considering the misogynistic nonsense and subsequent extended phases of limbo that they had to go through in comics.

At least Carol is getting her own comics still, it didn't even get cancelled, so far at least, Wanda meanwhile barely showed up after Darkhold Omega lol.

I really don't know what comics are thinking. Maybe they hate selling copies?

Can only wonder Marvel is not including her in Avengers comics now, maybe once Aaron is out she gets the main comic?

Y'know I was thinking about it and realized that Wanda's role in MoM is very similar to Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man 2. I mean, his character arc wasn't anything unique, but the parallels are interesting. They're both good people who turn evil as a result of mind control. Wanda was corrupted by the Darkhold, Octavius was corrupted by the A.I. in his arms. They both kill a bunch of people, then snap back to their senses at the last moment and sacrifice themselves to do the right thing.

At least Otto gets on-screen reasoning for going evil lol.

[MaximoffTrash]

Y'know I was thinking about it and realized that Wanda's role in MoM is very similar to Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man 2. I mean, his character arc wasn't anything unique, but the parallels are interesting. They're both good people who turn evil as a result of mind control. Wanda was corrupted by the Darkhold, Octavius was corrupted by the A.I. in his arms. They both kill a bunch of people, then snap back to their senses at the last moment and sacrifice themselves to do the right thing.

Yeah, I have pointed that out somewhere else as well.
Except Ock is a one and done character and he is nowhere as brutal Wanda. And there is some consistancy between his pre/post-corruptiom personality while Wanda just goes "muhhhh kids".

[GenericUsername]

I read on Wikipedia that the Marvel multiverse was introduced in its comics in Avengers #85 way back in 1971. I'm old enough to remember when multiverses were strictly the province of Star Trek and Marvel/DC Comics. Now multiverses are totally mainstream. I consider alternate "realities" and time travel to be basically two sides of the same coin. If the MCU introduces "incursions" into its movies and shows, maybe we'll eventually move on from this stuff.

On Loki, I kinda sympathize with what they did. DC already used an Enchantress in their movies. And there's just too many characters in the comics to bring on to the big and small screen. It would be really expensive even for Disney to do that. So I understand why Marvel Studios combined the two characters. I just don't think they did a good job of it in that series, unfortunately. I feel the MCU is already having trouble fleshing out the characters they have ALREADY introduced, never mind new ones. Maybe Olsen will be back in a couple of years. She seemed pretty burned out working two years in a row for Marvel. Look at the rest of the cast from WandaVision. They're doing other things and seem to be pretty happy. I just feel these performers need a break from these huge franchise projects sometimes. There is a LOT of pressure on them these days.

I AM worried about She-Hulk. Ms. Marvel is relatively new to the comics, but She-Hulk has been part of Marvel for decades. I hope they can do her justice. My brother loved Orphan Black, so I definitely think the lead actress in She-Hulk is fully capable of doing a great job. It's the MCU top brass that worries me. I haven't read any rumors online lately, but I'm REALLY hoping they avoid piling in Marvel Netflix characters into that show UNNECESSARILY and UNNATURALLY. I absolutely HATED the way Marvel Studios did it in Hawkeye so much so that I quit watching MCU content for quite some time. It was such a cynical move on their part in my opinion. Plus, I didn't watch the old Marvel TV stuff, so those comic book "boner moments" will be lost on me completely. But I have a feeling Marvel Studios might do that **** again to gin up viewership for Disney Plus and I'm not cool with that AT ALL.

Without giving too much away, I read a review online which stated in the third act of the MoM, there is an emotional moment that does NOT go deep, something that a previous Marvel production already did (I'm assuming WandaVision). I thought composer Christophe Beck did a really good job in WandaVision (he actually surpassed my expectations with his score), but when I heard Danny Elfman was working on the MoM, I thought his would be good too (I'm a HUGE fan of his Batman score). But a reviewer I read mentioned that his score actually UPPED the cringe in a LOT scenes. For emotional scenes NEED good music for them to work. I also read that even the twin boys in the MoM were annoying as hell in Strange 2 (and that they acted way worse than they did in WandaVision). Is all of this stuff true?!

The craziness of multiverse stuff didn't start until later. It's when it gets out of hand and becomes a mess that it's bad. People initially liked Ultimates up until 3 where things got out of hand.