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  1. #511

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    I don't know if this has already been discussed before but what if Chthon is actually the magical villain that promotional material of MoM keeps referring to? Would makes sense on many levels. Strange accidentally released him from his prison with his magical fuck up and he is obviously powerful enough to require a team-up and there is obviously the connection with Wanda. Where her powers actually come from hasn't been explained if Im not mistaken and then there is the entire Darkhold thing. I feel like there are many clues that this could be coming.
    I think that would make it more of a Wanda movie than a Dr Strange movie. If I had to choose, I would rather they go with Shuma Gorath as the villain of Dr Strange 2. I would rather Cthon be saved for a solo Wanda project. There is also the likelihood of them combining Shuma and Cthon into the same character.

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Still doesn't make it make sense. From a business standpoint, how much would you have to hate a character before you say no to cash flow? It's definitely not because there aren't people that want to write her. Several creators have come out and said they'd love to do it.
    It's funny because fans of the most popular heroes from the big 2 act like editorial bias barely exists if at all

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I think the bias is against the old-school Avengers in general, both the characters and the classic way of writing the team.

    But if the Avengers line was larger they'd probably have room for her. The X-Books can use most characters and even fit in a miniseries about Wanda because Cebulski is publishing a huge X-line while cutting back on the books for most other characters.

    With only one Avengers book, anyone who isn't on the Avengers is finding it hard to get used, and Wanda has the additional problem that she represents the "old," "uncool" way of doing Avengers comics.

    Even the success of her show with Vision, i.e. maybe the core romance of the entire Avengers franchise, won't make them budge because they can just say movie/TV audiences don't buy comics.
    So what's the new cool way of doing Avengers?
    Last edited by CosmiComic; 01-20-2022 at 06:20 PM.

  3. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I think that would make it more of a Wanda movie than a Dr Strange movie. If I had to choose, I would rather they go with Shuma Gorath as the villain of Dr Strange 2. I would rather Cthon be saved for a solo Wanda project. There is also the likelihood of them combining Shuma and Cthon into the same character.
    Not necessarily. Ghost is an Iron Man villain but appeared in AM&W

  4. #514
    ᱬ Master Of Chaos ᱬ Cruelrain's Avatar
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    They definitely linking the darkhold with Gargantos ( shuma gorath in the mcu) maybe thats why her page in the book might have tentacles as well, wont be the first time the mcu changes and some character story and gives it to another to make things simple.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    I don't know if this has already been discussed before but what if Chthon is actually the magical villain that promotional material of MoM keeps referring to? Would makes sense on many levels. Strange accidentally released him from his prison with his magical fuck up and he is obviously powerful enough to require a team-up and there is obviously the connection with Wanda. Where her powers actually come from hasn't been explained if Im not mistaken and then there is the entire Darkhold thing. I feel like there are many clues that this could be coming.
    Hopefully not, they should stick to a DS villain and leave Chthon to Wanda.
    But as it stands now, the movie feels more like a cameo-fest than anything else.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Hard to know. They could build him up for both Wanda and Blade's future stories. Or he might not even exist in that universe and that's why they had 616 Wanda consume him. I think honestly they'll treat the Darkhold like the Book of Cagliostro or Vishanti. They get a bit part but not fleshed out.
    Yeah, MCU really loves to toss out lore bits that makes people think more.(Eternals straight up get rid of the most interesting part out of them and make them random robots/monsters.)

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    So what's the new cool way of doing Avengers?
    The Avengers is now more of an all-star book like the Justice League, and it's a book that usually doesn't have much of a history or core cast, and it's focused more on action than character development.

    So most of the characters in Aaron's run have their own books, meaning they can't have any real character development, and it's all about big stories, big threats, big action, while "classic" Avengers was more focused on the character development of characters who were exclusive to the book -- almost all of Wanda and Vision's history is in Avengers issues -- and usually had smaller-scale stories with the occasional big one.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Hopefully not, they should stick to a DS villain and leave Chthon to Wanda.
    But as it stands now, the movie feels more like a cameo-fest than anything else.
    I'm a hypocrite to say this but you should keep in mind that we don't actually know anything official about this movie except the trailer, which presents it as a perfectly good Doctor Strange story and shows Wanda acting completely in-character.

    The people posting online about cameos that might never happen and plots that have nothing to do with Strange are sort of poisoning our minds against this movie without any real evidence beyond a few out-of-context scenes that leaked out.

    Maybe it'll all be different after the second trailer but right now we're depressed over fanfiction.
    Last edited by gurkle; 01-20-2022 at 07:12 PM.

  8. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    They definitely linking the darkhold with Gargantos ( shuma gorath in the mcu) maybe thats why her page in the book might have tentacles as well, wont be the first time the mcu changes and some character story and gives it to another to make things simple.
    That will be lame lol, but it's very likely.
    They will also probably straight up ignore the existence of Vishanti or make them random extra-dimensional aliens who for some reason want to protect Earth.

  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I'm a hypocrite to say this but you should keep in mind that we don't actually know anything official about this movie except the trailer, which presents it as a perfectly good Doctor Strange story and shows Wanda acting completely in-character.

    The people posting online about cameos that might never happen and plots that have nothing to do with Strange are sort of poisoning our minds against this movie without any real evidence beyond a few out-of-context scenes that leaked out.

    Maybe it'll all be different after the second trailer but right now we're depressed over fanfiction.
    Exactly. While I don't blame people worrying, the trailer itself focused mostly on Strange

  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Still doesn't make it make sense. From a business standpoint, how much would you have to hate a character before you say no to cash flow? It's definitely not because there aren't people that want to write her. Several creators have come out and said they'd love to do it.
    Editorial bias doesn't mean they're making good business decisions.

    Again, look at DiDio actively fucking over Dick and Wally, the only thing he gets is the personal satisfaction of fucking them over, but from a business standpoint, it's a terrible idea to mess with them lol.

    So yeah, editorial can be really terrible when it comes to making business decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I think the bias is against the old-school Avengers in general, both the characters and the classic way of writing the team.
    Which's honestly pretty odd considering Cap, Iron Man and Thor don't leave the teams, so, what, is the bias against old school characters who didn't have their own on-going? Lol.

    Even the success of her show with Vision, i.e. maybe the core romance of the entire Avengers franchise, won't make them budge because they can just say movie/TV audiences don't buy comics.
    I mean, movie audience doesn't buy comics, if they did, Avengers would be bigger than X-Men after we got the first movie, and despite how much Marvel tried to push 'em, yeah... Nothing happened lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I'm starting to think (fear) that if she's getting something it might be just a Marvel Unlimited comic... Maybe they think the people interested in her now are more likely to read that than buy physical issues... Except those unlimited books are all lowkey lame and unimportant.
    She'd better not get something like X-Men Green if so lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    The outfit in green works better in the same shade. I wonder who Asteroid M had on reserve to design these outfits. Toad?
    Toad being good at sewing sounds surprisingly nice lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I think that would make it more of a Wanda movie than a Dr Strange movie. If I had to choose, I would rather they go with Shuma Gorath as the villain of Dr Strange 2. I would rather Cthon be saved for a solo Wanda project. There is also the likelihood of them combining Shuma and Cthon into the same character.
    They could always kinda move Chthon as a Dr. Strange enemy, or just have Wanda be a protagonist alongside him, but the first one is still a possibility, after all, more than one adaptation had Tony creating Ultron instead of Pym.

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    It's funny because fans of the most popular heroes from the big 2 act like editorial bias barely exists if at all
    Well, if we ignore Dick and Wally fans, sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    The Avengers is now more of an all-star book like the Justice League, and it's a book that usually doesn't have much of a history or core cast, and it's focused more on action than character development.

    So most of the characters in Aaron's run have their own books, meaning they can't have any real character development, and it's all about big stories, big threats, big action, while "classic" Avengers was more focused on the character development of characters who were exclusive to the book -- almost all of Wanda and Vision's history is in Avengers issues -- and usually had smaller-scale stories with the occasional big one.
    I wouldn't even say it's a true "all star" team, 'cause we have characters like Robbie, Jen, and Blade on the team, and they don't have their own on-goings, well, besides Jen who just got one, but she didn't have it for a while lol.

    Is Echo on the team? 'Cause if so that's another one who doesn't have an on-going, but she is getting minis, but I think those are related to her Avengers arc.

    So yeah, there's still some room for characters with no on-goings, they're just avoiding older characters for reasons lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  11. #521

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Editorial bias doesn't mean they're making good business decisions.

    Again, look at DiDio actively fucking over Dick and Wally, the only thing he gets is the personal satisfaction of fucking them over, but from a business standpoint, it's a terrible idea to mess with them lol.

    So yeah, editorial can be really terrible when it comes to making business decisions.
    I was never under the impression that bias meant that. They have been able to push characters once they became popular in the MCU. Wanda seems to be one of the few they absolutely don't do that with. Before comparing them to someone as terrible as DiDio I'd need to know more info on why they decide what they do.

    I am not for them making Wanda's villain Strange's. He has plenty of his own. Leave Wanda with something. Tony creating Ultron was also terrible. I got tired of MCU Tony.
    Last edited by GenericUsername; 01-20-2022 at 08:55 PM.
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  12. #522
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I was never under the impression that bias meant that. They have been able to push characters once they became popular in the MCU. Wanda seems to be one of the few they absolutely don't do that with. Before comparing them to someone as terrible as DiDio I'd need to know more info on why they decide what they do.
    This is most definitely not a DiDio situation, 'cause DiDio has a hate boner for Dick and Wally, but it's far harder to mess with them and not be damaging to the company to a point they have to reverse it, if Wanda had a DiDio, she wouldn't have returned after HoM, would probably be dead too, and then, I dunno, maybe everyone would say she was a bitch and piss on her grave lol.

    But just because it's not DiDio levels of bad, doesn't mean there isn't a bias, 'cause if Wanda's selling enough comics, then Marvel should definitely give more attention to her, so the bias could be something like, some higher up not liking her for some reason, and doesn't give her a chance, or sexism not unlike how Ike Perlmutter wasn't allowing a Black Widow movie, so maybe someone thinks Wanda is too small to get her own comic, or even show up, I dunno, it could be the flimsiest excuse to not give her more attention, and it always sucks when someone like that is in power.

    On what might be considered a brighter side, it could be a situation where it's not even bias, just incompetence, Marvel somehow not noticing Wanda increases sales so they don't do anything, would be funny and sad if that's somehow the case lol.

    I am not for them making Wanda's villain Strange's. He has plenty of his own. Leave Wanda with something. Tony creating Ultron was also terrible. I got tired of MCU Tony.
    I'm just sayin' it could happen, but honestly, I have my doubts, while it sucks they didn't make Pym into the guy who created Ultron, it makes sense why they would change who created him, because Ultron is a classic Avengers villain, and someone from the Avengers created him, and Stark is the next best choice out of the characters they had available.

    Meanwhile, Chthon is only a Wanda villain, and Strange has at least 3 villains who fill that "evil godlike being who'd fuck everything if he gets on Earth", so yeah, while I'm not saying he's completely out of the question, he's very unlikely to be used, since he's not even popular enough for Marvel to decide to use him over the other villains Strange has.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  13. #523

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    This is most definitely not a DiDio situation, 'cause DiDio has a hate boner for Dick and Wally, but it's far harder to mess with them and not be damaging to the company to a point they have to reverse it, if Wanda had a DiDio, she wouldn't have returned after HoM, would probably be dead too, and then, I dunno, maybe everyone would say she was a bitch and piss on her grave lol.

    But just because it's not DiDio levels of bad, doesn't mean there isn't a bias, 'cause if Wanda's selling enough comics, then Marvel should definitely give more attention to her, so the bias could be something like, some higher up not liking her for some reason, and doesn't give her a chance, or sexism not unlike how Ike Perlmutter wasn't allowing a Black Widow movie, so maybe someone thinks Wanda is too small to get her own comic, or even show up, I dunno, it could be the flimsiest excuse to not give her more attention, and it always sucks when someone like that is in power.

    On what might be considered a brighter side, it could be a situation where it's not even bias, just incompetence, Marvel somehow not noticing Wanda increases sales so they don't do anything, would be funny and sad if that's somehow the case lol.



    I'm just sayin' it could happen, but honestly, I have my doubts, while it sucks they didn't make Pym into the guy who created Ultron, it makes sense why they would change who created him, because Ultron is a classic Avengers villain, and someone from the Avengers created him, and Stark is the next best choice out of the characters they had available.

    Meanwhile, Chthon is only a Wanda villain, and Strange has at least 3 villains who fill that "evil godlike being who'd fuck everything if he gets on Earth", so yeah, while I'm not saying he's completely out of the question, he's very unlikely to be used, since he's not even popular enough for Marvel to decide to use him over the other villains Strange has.
    I'm not saying there isn't a bias either. I just also never said that they were making good business decisions. It's just not specifically known why they are apprehensive about putting Wanda into an ongoing. And it doesn't make sense why a company would not capitalize on her popularity. And yes, we don't even know if they don't like her. It could be a thing where they just have other things planned with certain writers for certain events and none of those plans include Wanda.

    I don't think Chthon will be featured in Strange either. I think if it's anyone over Wanda it'd be in Blade's stuff. Strange is already set. And they've only scratched the surface of his lore.
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  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I'm not saying there isn't a bias either. I just also never said that they were making good business decisions. It's just not specifically known why they are apprehensive about putting Wanda into an ongoing. And it doesn't make sense why a company would not capitalize on her popularity. And yes, we don't even know if they don't like her. It could be a thing where they just have other things planned with certain writers for certain events and none of those plans include Wanda.

    I don't think Chthon will be featured in Strange either. I think if it's anyone over Wanda it'd be in Blade's stuff. Strange is already set. And they've only scratched the surface of his lore.
    It's one thing to not be in the current roster Avengers comics, it's quite another to not be in them at all. Wanda doesn't even pop up as a guest character, despite her history with the team. Clint, Vision, and Janet also get short shrift.

    There's also the fact that Carol is now likely permanently ensconced in the "Powerful Woman" slot. The Avengers roster these days is like in a videogame, where you have 8 equipment slots but actually you can only customize 3, because 5 of them (Tony, Cap, Thor, Carol, T'challa) are always in use so are off limits. In the old days Wanda, Vision, Clint, and Janet were the actual core/heart of the team, really, with Cap, Tony, and Thor being the solo characters guesting. Now it's the "star" solo characters who are the core of the team, with a few flavour of the months tacked on in the remaining slots to act as sidekicks.

    If they can't use the name Shuma Gorath, and were creating an amalgam of Shuma and Chthon, they would simply call him Chthon. Using Gargantos (what a cheesy, awful name!) allows them to save Chthon till later.
    Last edited by Relugus; 01-21-2022 at 01:27 PM.

  15. #525
    ᱬ Master Of Chaos ᱬ Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Idk why it is that hard for them to have to sepate avengers ongoings at the same time

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