"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[gurkle]

What they are doing within the movie is showing you through the examples of the other Stranges is exactly how it happened to Wanda. The thing is unlike the other Stranges she overcomes it at the end. Even within Wanda Vision Agatha warns over and over how dangerous she can be if things go wrong. And things went really wrong. She isolated herself. Studied the dark hold for lord knows how long. Became totally corrupted and single minded. Exactly what happened to the other two Doctor Stranges.

But we didn't see that happen. All we saw was a 30 second scene at the end of WandaVision, which sets up a completely different premise (hearing her kids calling for help), after a show where we see that the Darkhold did not turn Agatha into an irrational psycho (she did bad things, but she actually helped both Wanda and the town).

There are many things they didn't explain, like her suddenly forgetting about Vision or Pietro, but mostly I just don't think I can believe in such a huge change unless I actually see it. It's different with the two Stranges because we never saw them before.

Otherwise any story could have any character change into a different person and write it off with an explanation of some McGuffin making them evil or turning them good. They don't do that because it's bad storytelling.

[MaximoffTrash]

Do you think the Wanda we know is going to be the main Wanda going forward? 838 Wanda has real children and is not a psycho murderer and kidnapper. She exists in a world with mutants and we know there are incursions going on. Something I think they hinted a lot about the future of the MCU.

The only important thing about her is the darker hair color, the kids and the mutants don't matter lol.

[Cruelrain]

Jac the writer of WandaVision is the writer for the Agatha show as for now, i bet she will try to explain and maybe fix a bit all the bad stuff MoM brough, you know she made phrases like: "There'll always be torches and pitchforks for ladies like us" to Wanda


Given Lizzie's good relationship with Kathryn, Jac and even the people from marvel i think there is a big chance they shows up there at least as surprise or say something about the events of the Movie, i don't think the series will be entirely about Agatha's past but also her future near the end


The movie had Strange and Wong calling Wanda a witch in all negative connotations (as if all witches should be like that)

[inisideguy]

But we didn't see that happen. All we saw was a 30 second scene at the end of WandaVision, which sets up a completely different premise (hearing her kids calling for help), after a show where we see that the Darkhold did not turn Agatha into an irrational psycho (she did bad things, but she actually helped both Wanda and the town).

There are many things they didn't explain, like her suddenly forgetting about Vision or Pietro, but mostly I just don't think I can believe in such a huge change unless I actually see it. It's different with the two Stranges because we never saw them before.

Otherwise any story could have any character change into a different person and write it off with an explanation of some McGuffin making them evil or turning them good. They don't do that because it's bad storytelling.

I don't know really how much more they had to show you. They show you how the dark hold corrupts. They show the audience she lost her kids. They show you how she has been studying the dark hold. And she spells out her motivations directly to Dr Strange. Then throughout the movie they actually show other examples of how the Darkhold corrupts people.

Now I get you don't get why she went from tragic to bad. But the Darkhold took all those emotions and corrupted them. So she becomes something she normally would not be. She isn't seeing things in a logical manner. Thats the whole point.

[MaximoffTrash]

I may be simple. But to me the concept of her going bad makes total sense. And they explain it. She lost her kids, she has regret on what she did, she has massive trama. She studies the dark hold which corrupts her even more to not think logically. They literally show in the movie the other doctor strange corrupted by the dark hold in two different universes. If he can be corrupted so can she.

Why is this so hard to understand?

So basic you are telling me she has her brain replaced with a hamster wheel.
No one is questioning the fact that hamsters are stupid little buggers, we just don't like characters randomly got their brain hijacked by them for lazy reasoning.

It's like writing a character with no internal logic and everytime he does **** it's explained as his/her insanity. So yeah, what is the point of that character then?

If we accept the hamster, we then have to answer what is the point of seeing hamster randomly giving orders other than easy and cheap horror spectacles.

[gurkle]

I don't know really how much more they had to show you. They show you how the dark hold corrupts. They show the audience she lost her kids. They show you how she has been studying the dark hold. And she spells out her motivations directly to Dr Strange.

Her motivations don't make sense. She didn't just lose her kids, she willingly wiped them from existence even though they were portrayed as real flesh-and-blood creatures with free will, when she found out they could only live by torturing other people.

Now she suddenly wants -- not those specific kids she created, but variants who look like them? And she only wants them, not Vision, even though they just did a whole show about her wanting Vision back more than anything in the world?

Yes, they had to show us, not just tell us, but they didn't even tell us very much. There is nothing in the movie that doesn't contradict WandaVision, even the portrayal of the Darkhold and the kids.

Basically the portrayal here is that the Darkhold turned her offscreen into a different person and an idiot who is obsessed with something she was never obsessed with before (being a mother) and no longer cares about the man she loves.

[MaximoffTrash]

I don't know really how much more they had to show you. They show you how the dark hold corrupts. They show the audience she lost her kids. They show you how she has been studying the dark hold. And she spells out her motivations directly to Dr Strange. Then throughout the movie they actually show other examples of how the Darkhold corrupts people.

Now I get you don't get why she went from tragic to bad. But the Darkhold took all those emotions and corrupted them. So she becomes something she normally would not be. She isn't seeing things in a logical manner. Thats the whole point.

So it's like catching a flu, Darkhold cannot even be the cool kind of magic book.
To make it simple, even if this movie makes sense(it kinda does if you just want the bare minimum lukewarm narrative in stories), it's still one bland story with cheap and lazy excuse.

Sure, Darkhold corrupted her, so where is the emotional stake then? She is just nutty woman yelling muh kids 24/7, tell me how is that a compelling story?

[inisideguy]

So basic you are telling me she has her brain replaced with a hamster wheel.
No one is questioning the fact that hamsters are stupid little buggers, we just don't like characters randomly got their brain hijacked by them for lazy reasoning.

It's like writing a character with no internal logic and everytime he does **** it's explained as his/her insanity. So yeah, what is the point of that character then?

If we accept the hamster, we then have to answer what is the point of seeing hamster randomly giving orders other than easy and cheap horror spectacles.

She had her brain replaced as did the other two Doctor Stranges who by all accounts were not bad people either! Why is this hard for people?

[MaximoffTrash]

It's like aruging the edibility of ****.
Yes, yes, it's kinda toxic and bad for your health, but you can still argue **** as food has its justifications.
But the more glaring problem is simply, whyyyyyyyyy?

[inisideguy]

So it's like catching a flu, Darkhold cannot even be the cool kind of magic book.
To make it simple, even if this movie makes sense(it kinda does if you just want the bare minimum lukewarm narrative in stories), it's still one bland story with cheap and lazy excuse.

Sure, Darkhold corrupted her, so where is the emotional stake then? She is just nutty woman yelling muh kids 24/7, tell me how is that a compelling story?

Why isn't it a compelling story? The concept here is not hard to figure out. Its really not much different than a family member falling into drugs and alcohol. And doing horrible things to everyone and everything around them. People may not like that this happened to Wanda. I get that. But the idea here is way simpler than many of you guys want to admit.

[MaximoffTrash]

She had her brain replaced as did the other two Doctor Stranges who by all accounts were not bad people either! Why is this hard for people?

Yeah, you can make bikini armors make sense in-universe. But you still cannot stop people from criticizing the inherent stupidity of that ****.

In-universe justification is one thing, it being good/pleasant for the audience is another issue.
Why people criticize those horror movies with incredibly stupid characters even though those characters technically are rash and dumb by design? Because it's not a compelling story.

[inisideguy]

Her motivations don't make sense. She didn't just lose her kids, she willingly wiped them from existence even though they were portrayed as real flesh-and-blood creatures with free will, when she found out they could only live by torturing other people.

Now she suddenly wants -- not those specific kids she created, but variants who look like them? And she only wants them, not Vision, even though they just did a whole show about her wanting Vision back more than anything in the world?

Yes, they had to show us, not just tell us, but they didn't even tell us very much. There is nothing in the movie that doesn't contradict WandaVision, even the portrayal of the Darkhold and the kids.

Basically the portrayal here is that the Darkhold turned her offscreen into a different person and an idiot who is obsessed with something she was never obsessed with before (being a mother) and no longer cares about the man she loves.

Honestly we wil have to agree to disagree. Thats all there is to it. You seem to want everything spelled out for you. Which I thought the movie did. And you didn't. Mostly I get the feeling that many of you don't like the idea at all that she went bad. And thats fine. But its all deflecting from something that is spelled out in the movie. And if you don't feel that way I guess that is fine. My opinion is as valid as anyone else.

[gurkle]

Why isn't it a compelling story? The concept here is not hard to figure out. Its really not much different than a family member falling into drugs and alcohol. And doing horrible things to everyone and everything around them. People may not like that this happened to Wanda. I get that. But the idea here is way simpler than many of you guys want to admit.

That's a good comparison, but think about stories about people falling into drugs and alcohol. Do they just start the story with them becoming a totally different person and just have a one-line explanation that the drugs did it? Or do they actually show how they fall into addiction?

Honestly we wil have to agree to disagree. Thats all there is to it. You seem to want everything spelled out for you. Which I thought the movie did. And you didn't. Mostly I get the feeling that many of you don't like the idea at all that she went bad. And thats fine. But its all deflecting from something that is spelled out in the movie. And if you don't feel that way I guess that is fine. My opinion is as valid as anyone else.

You'll never believe me, but I think there would be a good story about Wanda going bad. But we never see it because both in the comics and MCU, she just goes evil offscreen and we never see it.

Seeing Wanda go bad would be a tragedy; having her go bad offscreen is bad storytelling.

[MaximoffTrash]

Why isn't it a compelling story? The concept here is not hard to figure out. Its really not much different than a family member falling into drugs and alcohol. And doing horrible things to everyone and everything around them. People may not like that this happened to Wanda. I get that. But the idea here is way simpler than many of you guys want to admit.

Not hard to figure out doesn't equal compelling.
Maybe you should try to understand this simple fact as well.

If I write a fantasy story about a prophecy, with no proper story structure and classic twist and turns, and the prophecy literally happens, and the explanation boils down to a cheap plot device, tell me then, can this be a good story by any definition.

[inisideguy]

Yeah, you can make bikini armors make sense in-universe. But you still cannot stop people from criticizing the inherent stupidity of that ****.

In-universe justification is one thing, it being good/pleasant for the audience is another issue.
Why people criticize those horror movies with incredibly stupid characters even though those characters technically are rash and dumb by design? Because it's not a compelling story.

They show and give examples within the movie how the dark hold can and does corrupt. You just don't like it.