"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[GenericUsername]

Thats isnt the idea at all. What it shows as with the other two Dr Stranges is it can corrupt you to do insane things. The first Doctor Strange it corrupted as he as attempting to defeat Thanos. He at the end sees all of it before he is killed. The 2nd Dr Strange it corrupted to such a degree that he destroyed the entire earth possibly his entire universe.

No this movie corrupted to murder because it needed to be a slasher horror because that is Raimi's style. And Marvel let him have free reign. But it absolutely does not line up with what the Darkhold was doing in WV. Nor the intentions of that writer and director of that show. The idea that it's linked rides on the Darkhold without any other context than that. When the details matter.

[gurkle]

They don't spell out everything about the Dark side of the force either in 40 years of Star Wars. You guys want exact explanations for Magic in a Fictional world.

I just want to know why Wanda wants what she wants in this film. Last time we saw her, Vision was the most important thing in the world to her. Now it's (copies of) these kids she knew for a few days. Why? Why not them and the man she loves?

"It's magic" is never a good enough explanation. We don't need magic explained, we need the character's behavior explained, and the idea that being a mother is the only thing in the world that matters to her came out of nowhere.

The WandaVision tag scene sort of suggested how it might happen: she hears her kids calling for help and becomes obsessed with trying to rescue them, doing more dangerous Darkhold magic to try to find a way. Unfortunately the movie contradicted that and all she wants is a variant of her kids and there's no mention of her thinking they're in danger. So like everything else in WandaVision, it was ignored by the film.

[GenericUsername]

They don't spell out everything about the Dark side of the force either in 40 years of Star Wars. You guys want exact explanations for Magic in a Fictional world.

Because there are actual explanations in comics that took less time. Yes we expect them to go into the Vishanti in a Doctor Strange film. Or actually go into the lore of Wundagore and Chthon and the Darkhold in a story that consists of these things. Instead of merely using most of that as plot macguffins. Wanda should have gotten a solo, or a second season to iron out her lore. And Strange should have gotten his proper lore. What they chose was to have a movie in Raimi's style (which is fine for you to like) but even in their interviews, they were not trying to line this up with anything else. It to them is a fun romp. And I imagine the only thing they carry on plot wise from this is the incursions.

[Albert1981]

They don't spell out everything about the Dark side of the force either in 40 years of Star Wars. You guys want exact explanations for Magic in a Fictional world.

Let's face it. "Time travel", "alternate universes" and "magic" are ALWAYS tricky concepts to use in storytelling. Things inevitably get messy and confusing as hell! That's why I think some "rules", as opposed to explanations are really important here. I personally think it would have been a good idea for Wanda's "essence" to be part of the twin boys because that way they would be "hers" and the MCU could say that she can't create any more because it's a "limited resource". I didn't think Agatha was "evil", but she didn't appear to be exactly a benevolent person either. WandaVision didn't have enough time to get into Harkness's motivations for wanting Wanda's power. MY personal opinion is that in order for Agatha to continue to look like Kathryn Hahn for four hundred years or whatever, she had to suck the "powers" out of other magic users. She went after other magic users to survive. In episode five of WandaVision, Agatha appeared EXTREMELY interested when the boys were asking Wanda if she could "fix the dead". I think THAT'S why she took a VERY special interest in Wanda. We'll have to wait for Harkness's series to find out if I'm right (highly unlikely).

I also think they could have delayed shooting on the MoM until after WandaVision finished filming. They ended up doing reshoots anyway and I would have preferred they started on the MoM from scratch after the COVID protocols had been removed. I just felt things were rushed so unnecessarily and that goes for all the Marvel stuff that came out in 2021. As for why Pietro and Vision apparently didn't show up in the MoM? Maybe ATJ and Bettany wanted too much money.

[GenericUsername]

Slashfilm assessment of Wanda's journey from long-time Scarlet Witch fan Jamie Gerber https://www.slashfilm.com/865640/doc...itch-mistakes/

[inisideguy]

Let's face it. "Time travel", "alternate universes" and "magic" are ALWAYS tricky concepts to use in storytelling. Things inevitably get messy and confusing as hell! That's why I think some "rules", as opposed to explanations are really important here. I personally think it would have been a good idea for Wanda's "essence" to be part of the twin boys because that way they would be "hers" and the MCU could say that she can't create any more because it's a "limited resource". I didn't think Agatha was "evil", but she didn't appear to be exactly a benevolent person either. WandaVision didn't have enough time to get into Harkness's motivations for wanting Wanda's power. MY personal opinion is that in order for Agatha to continue to look like Kathryn Hahn for four hundred years or whatever, she had to suck the "powers" out of other magic users. She went after other magic users to survive. In episode five of WandaVision, Agatha appeared EXTREMELY interested when the boys were asking Wanda if she could "fix the dead". I think THAT'S why she took a VERY special interest in Wanda. We'll have to wait for Harkness's series to find out if I'm right (highly unlikely).

As for why Pietro and Vision apparently didn't show up in the MoM? Maybe ATJ and Bettany wanted too much money.

I don't think the idea of the Darkhold corrupting someone is that hard to understand. What many people seem annoyed about is they feel it corrupted her to much. Because Agatha was not as corrupted. But in the movie they literally show with the other two Doctor Stranges how bad it can corrupt.

[GenericUsername]

I don't think the idea of the Darkhold corrupting someone is that hard to understand. What many people seem annoyed about is they feel it corrupted her to much. Because Agatha was not as corrupted. But in the movie they literally show with the other two Doctor Stranges how bad it can corrupt.

Yeah in that same film, that doesn't line up with WV. I'm just glad that WV writers are handling Agatha.

[gurkle]

I don't think the idea of the Darkhold corrupting someone is that hard to understand. What many people seem annoyed about is they feel it corrupted her to much. Because Agatha was not as corrupted. But in the movie they literally show with the other two Doctor Stranges how bad it can corrupt.

I'll leave you alone after this, but I just want to explain: it's not how much it corrupted her, it's that we don't know how or why it happened, because it all happened before the movie starts.

Explaining isn't enough, or we wouldn't even need to tell stories, just read Wikipedia summaries. Storytelling is about making us feel that something could happen. If you felt it could happen, that's fine. But usually we find something more believable if we see it happen, and less believable if someone just tells us it happened.

[GenericUsername]

Why tell an actual story though? When we can just get mindless feats, lol.

[WallStreeter]

Why tell an actual story though? When we can just get mindless feats, lol.

Feige and company likely weren’t expecting Wanda’s to be popular enough to win two Emmys. Therefore, no need to develop Wanda as much.

So they assumed WandaVision would have no impact so Raiki could do what he wanted, without watching WandaVision.

There is can blowback though. I think Liz Olsen because of public opinion has enough leverage now to say no any villainous portrayals of Wanda. I’d say now she cannot say No More Mutants in the MCU, as she was Lore evil in this film.

You can always get good news out of bad. It’s a matter of perspective.

[Gnostic]

Looks like a Phoenix aura.

[Albert1981]

I don't think the idea of the Darkhold corrupting someone is that hard to understand. What many people seem annoyed about is they feel it corrupted her to much. Because Agatha was not as corrupted. But in the movie they literally show with the other two Doctor Stranges how bad it can corrupt.

As I said earlier, I think Disney could have delayed shooting on the MoM until after WandaVision finished filming. They ended up doing reshoots anyway and I would have preferred they started on the MoM from scratch after the COVID protocols had been removed. More time to work on things is good. They might even have used that extra time to watch WandaVision. I just felt things were rushed so unnecessarily and that goes for all the Marvel stuff that came out in 2021.

The Darkhold "corrupting" people is NOT hard to understand. Even for a dummy like me. The whole "black fingertips" thing definitely demonstrated to me that this book is DEFINITELY not your regular friendly Webster's Dictionary of Magic. I mean, in fantasy literature lots of characters access "powers" from "objects" that are "cursed". And we all know what usually follows. So I don't think folks are confused about that. What I'm hearing (I haven't seen the movie myself), is that the "heel turn" which took place in the MoM happened faster than a text message. I do agree that SOME build-up might have worked a little bit better. But apparently there was a lot of **** going on in the MoM they just didn't have time for that. I mean I still think Ultron went from baby AI to genocidal robot WAY too quickly in AoU myself. That was a problem for that film as well. You'd figure Marvel Studios would have learned that lesson THEN. But since Disney INSISTS on combining so many different storylines and characters in SO many of their productions now, I'm not surprised people felt things were rushed.

[gurkle]

Feige and company likely weren’t expecting Wanda’s to be popular enough to win two Emmys. Therefore, no need to develop Wanda as much.

Agreed, even Waldron has said that when "WandaVision" became a big hit while they were in the middle of shooting the movie, they felt nervous that they were turning her into the Terminator. But I guess no one considered -- or at least approved -- the idea of changing the story, except maybe for lowering Wanda's kill count a bit.

My own theory is that, being obsessed with 00s comics and wanting to set up Young Avengers, Feige needed Wanda to be so disgraced that all her fellow superheroes would be against her. Westview obviously was not that, which the movie even lampshades by having Strange dismiss it because she did the right thing in the end. She had to commit a big crime and disappear. And that's why the plan was always to have her go bad, except that she was originally supposed to go bad later in the movie (which would ahve been better storytelling and more popular).

Now, I'm not sure they're even doing Young Avengers, since the kids have not aged up as the plot leak said they would, and the same leakers who said Wanda was going evil are now saying she'll be getting her own project. Hopefully so. But I think the original plan was probably similar to the comics: put her on ice until her kids are ready to look for her.

[inisideguy]

As I said earlier, I think Disney could have delayed shooting on the MoM until after WandaVision finished filming. They ended up doing reshoots anyway and I would have preferred they started on the MoM from scratch after the COVID protocols had been removed. More time to work on things is good. They might even have used that extra time to watch WandaVision. I just felt things were rushed so unnecessarily and that goes for all the Marvel stuff that came out in 2021.

The Darkhold "corrupting" people is NOT hard to understand. Even for a dummy like me. The whole "black fingertips" thing definitely demonstrated to me that this book is DEFINITELY not your regular friendly Webster's Dictionary of Magic. I mean, in fantasy literature lots of characters access "powers" from "objects" that are "cursed". And we all know what usually follows. So I don't think folks are confused about that. What I'm hearing (I haven't seen the movie myself), is that the "heel turn" which took place in the MoM happened faster than a text message. I do agree that SOME build-up might have worked a little bit better. But apparently there was a lot of **** going on in the MoM they just didn't have time for that. I mean I still think Ultron went from baby AI to genocidal robot WAY too quickly myself in AoU. That was a problem for that film as well. You'd figure Marvel Studios would have learned that lesson THEN. But since Disney INSISTS on combining so many different storylines and characters in SO many of their productions now, I'm not surprised people felt things were rushed.

But this is where I just disagree. If you follow the MCU here is what we know from Wanda. Her parents were blown up in front of her when she was a child. She was manipulated by Hydra to work for them. Her brother was killed. She is then forced to blast a hole in her Husbands head ( which she talks about in the movie). Then she kidnaps a town puts them under mind control and creates children and brings her husband back to life in an illusion. She then basically kills them all again. And walks away from a town she mind controlled. She then goes into isolation and has the dark hold.



Anyone acting like this turn happened in a Vacuum is ignoring her history in the MCU.

[GenericUsername]

Feige and company likely weren’t expecting Wanda’s to be popular enough to win two Emmys. Therefore, no need to develop Wanda as much.

So they assumed WandaVision would have no impact so Raiki could do what he wanted, without watching WandaVision.

There is can blowback though. I think Liz Olsen because of public opinion has enough leverage now to say no any villainous portrayals of Wanda. I’d say now she cannot say No More Mutants in the MCU, as she was Lore evil in this film.

You can always get good news out of bad. It’s a matter of perspective.

I do believe that they will turn things around. I do expect redemption.