"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[MaximoffTrash]

Why isn't it a compelling story? The concept here is not hard to figure out. Its really not much different than a family member falling into drugs and alcohol. And doing horrible things to everyone and everything around them. People may not like that this happened to Wanda. I get that. But the idea here is way simpler than many of you guys want to admit.

If you are implying Darkhold is a metaphor for addition and substance abuse then they did a shitty job.

[MaximoffTrash]

They show and give examples within the movie how the dark hold can and does corrupt. You just don't like it.

Of course I don't like it Captain Obvious.
Because it's lame without much fantastical world building, a magic book that functions like food poisoning is lame in my book.

I just don't like ****, how about it?
Bad writing doesn't go away because it has the most basic ass logic flow as "something has X effects".
Darkbold is essentially used to create a one-dimensional slasher villain and othet cheap fodder so yeah, what is good with that?

Also here comes the last point of
"What if I just don't like Zack Snyder Superman?"

[inisideguy]

That's a good comparison, but think about stories about people falling into drugs and alcohol. Do they just start the story with them becoming a totally different person and just have a one-line explanation that the drugs did it? Or do they actually show how they fall into addiction?



You'll never believe me, but I think there would be a good story about Wanda going bad. But we never see it because both in the comics and MCU, she just goes evil offscreen and we never see it.

Seeing Wanda go bad would be a tragedy; having her go bad offscreen is bad storytelling.

No you just don't want to see it. They show at the beginning how she is isolated and alone. That she did bad things and has fallen into a dark place while studying the book. Its right there. And I don't buy for one second that if they give another 15 minutes to explaining it some of you guys will accept the turn. You don't like the turn. Thats all there is to it.

[inisideguy]

Of course I don't like it Captain Obvious.
Because it's lame without much fantastical world building, a magic book that functions like food poisoning is lame in my book.

I just don't like ****, how about it?

Which is my point. Its about the turn for you. You wouldn't like it no matter the explanation. You don't like her turning bad. Which is fine. But just say that.

[gurkle]

No you just don't want to see it. They show at the beginning how she is isolated and alone. That she did bad things and has fallen into a dark place while studying the book. Its right there. And I don't buy for one second that if they give another 15 minutes to explaining it some of you guys will accept the turn. You don't like the turn. Thats all there is to it.

They don't show that at all. WandaVision showed that the Darkhold didn't turn Agatha into a psycho, and it showed that Wanda thought her kids were calling for help.

Then skip to this movie and they tell us the Darkhold has turned Wanda into a completely different person, who is irrationally obsessed with having kids and no longer cares about anyone or anything else.

Yes, they show she is isolated and alone, and that's not enough to turn someone into a psycho killer. Why did the book make her want this specific thing (being a mother) and not anything else?

If they spent 15 minutes showing her studying the book and losing her sense of morality, and explaining why she now cares about having kids to the exclusion of anything else, yes, that would be better. It would be even better if she started out teaming up with Strange and slowly got more corrupted as the movie went on, which was the original plan.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I just don't believe a character turning into a totally different person offscreen. The more we see it happen onscreen, the better a story it is.

[MaximoffTrash]

Which is my point. Its about the turn for you. You wouldn't like it no matter the explanation. You don't like her turning bad. Which is fine. But just say that.

The explanation is lame, that is partially why I don't like it.
And yeah, I don't like the inherent misogynistic undertone this route carries, so what about it?

I don't like it because it's the creatively bankrupt writing that cannot make proper fantasy material.

While you try to frame it as "you just mad" I guess?

[GenericUsername]

I may be simple. But to me the concept of her going bad makes total sense. And they explain it. She lost her kids, she has regret on what she did, she has massive trama. She studies the dark hold which corrupts her even more to not think logically. They literally show in the movie the other doctor strange corrupted by the dark hold in two different universes. If he can be corrupted so can she.

Why is this so hard to understand?

The Darkhold didn't make Agatha forget what she was doing. Wanda went from going after her own kids to trying to kidnap someone else's and have a family from another universe. That's not really it tying into her show. The writer and director of ITMoM even stated they didn't watch the show. They were just handed parts of it. So they wouldn't have seen Agatha being completely in control, but manipulative and power hungry. The difference between Agatha and Wanda is a scalpel versus a mallet in how they are treated in terms of how they changed with the Darkhold being read.

[MaximoffTrash]

You seem to misunderstand which part I don't like.
Of course it includes Wanda's route, but also the dumb down and cheap explanation/usage of Darkhold.

I am just mad because they cannot make something interesting out of my favorite elements, and make them totally generic and lame, how about that?

Or do you think in-universe logic that is pulled out of their ass for this one specific movie equals good writing.

Sure, I also just don't like America's passiveness in this movie, I guess I care about characters being more active part of the plot?

What is the bottom line again?

[GenericUsername]

This is part of the new attempt by people that enjoyed the movie to justify some of the plot holes in it, by telling people bs that wasn't even in the movie to stretch logic to make it all fit. It's the, it's not a bad movie, you just don't understand it approach.

[gurkle]

Jac the writer of WandaVision is the writer for the Agatha show as for now, i bet she will try to explain and maybe fix a bit all the bad stuff MoM brough, you know she made phrases like: "There'll always be torches and pitchforks for ladies like us" to Wanda


Given Lizzie's good relationship with Kathryn, Jac and even the people from marvel i think there is a big chance they shows up there at least as surprise or say something about the events of the Movie, i don't think the series will be entirely about Agatha's past but also her future near the end


The movie had Strange and Wong calling Wanda a witch in all negative connotations (as if all witches should be like that)

Yeah, I don't want to fall into a simplistic Schaeffer good, Waldron bad thing here (Waldron wrote a bad script, but he said turning Wanda bad was already in the cards before he came on, and I believe him), but I assume that even if Wanda doesn't appear in Agatha's show*, she'll try to do some damage control on the Darkhold and witchcraft, which were both portrayed in an incredibly one-dimensional way here compared to the show.

*I hope she'll appear, I just don't want to get my hopes up until they offically announce her return, and maybe not even then.

[Witchfan]

Elizabeth Olsen Vanity Fair interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-vxRbm-YoI

FS9EOQaagAAvKPL.jpg
old bts photo

[inisideguy]

The Darkhold didn't make Agatha forget what she was doing. Wanda went from going after her own kids to trying to kidnap someone else's and have a family from another universe. That's not really it tying into her show. The writer and director of ITMoM even stated they didn't watch the show. They were just handed parts of it. So they wouldn't have seen Agatha being completely in control, but manipulative and power hungry. The difference between Agatha and Wanda is a scalpel versus a mallet in how they are treated in terms of how they changed with the Darkhold being read.

Agatha knew she was dangerous because she was so powerful. She says that in the show. She was 10 times more powerful than Agatha. As is Strange. And combined with their power, the Darkhold corrupts even worse. And Agatha didn't have tons of baggage losing a family, effectively mind controlling a town. Losing her parents in a bombing. Her brothers dead as well. The concept is the same as Anakin turning to the Dark side. Not everyone exposed to it becomes a Sith. Its how you deal with it. She didn't deal with it.

[GenericUsername]

Agatha knew she was dangerous because she was so powerful. She says that in the show. She was 10 times more powerful than Agatha. As is Strange. And combined with their power, the Darkhold corrupts even worse. And Agatha didn't have tons of baggage losing a family, effectively mind controlling a town. Losing her parents in a bombing. Her brothers dead as well. The concept is the same as Anakin turning to the Dark side. Not everyone exposed to it becomes a Sith. Its how you deal with it. She didn't deal with it.

Agatha is not out of control at all. She is precise. Her brain is not replaced. It doesn't do that. Even Liz says Wanda has control over things, she just feels entitled. Wanda did deal with loss. That was what the stages of grief were about. The Darkhold again, does not make people forget things. It makes them power hungry.

[WallStreeter]

This is part of the new attempt by people that enjoyed the movie to justify some of the plot holes in it, by telling people bs that wasn't even in the movie to stretch logic to make it all fit. It's the, it's not a bad movie, you just don't understand it approach.

What you consider plot holes may perfect sense to people who like the movie. While you are entitled to hate the movie, understand and respect others are entitled to like it for whatever reason and no one has to justify their preference to anyone. Whether someone loves it or hates it, it’s entirely on them.

[gurkle]

Agatha knew she was dangerous because she was so powerful. She says that in the show. She was 10 times more powerful than Agatha. As is Strange. And combined with their power, the Darkhold corrupts even worse. And Agatha didn't have tons of baggage losing a family, effectively mind controlling a town. Losing her parents in a bombing. Her brothers dead as well. The concept is the same as Anakin turning to the Dark side. Not everyone exposed to it becomes a Sith. Its how you deal with it. She didn't deal with it.

OK, but did we see that in the movie? She didn't even mention she had a brother, she didn't mention why she's not looking for Vision, they didn't explain why the Darkhold works differently on her than Agatha, etc., etc.

They could easily have shown what you're saying, but they didn't. That's not because they don't want to spell it out for us, it's because they just decided it would be more shocking to have her suddenly be evil when the movie starts.

This is why the writer in interviews gives these explanations for why Wanda cares about the kids but not Vision, or talks about the Darkhold whispering in her ear and changing her. It was his job to show these things in the movie. If it happened offscreen it didn't happen.