"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[Gnostic]

Debatable. Since when you die you no longer feel anything. And maybe it'd save her from people wanting her damaged more for the X-Men to make it into the universe. Even though they have been and can be introduced without her.

I don't think America would feel pain like the people of Westview. Wanda thought she would feel happy with her boys.

[gurkle]

I wish we didn't have to discuss this movie as if it made sense. The whole point of the story, if there was a point, was that Wanda's plan made no sense and fell apart as soon as she realized the kids in other universes weren't actually hers. It was a shaggy-dog story because she had a plan that could not possibly work.

They even had her asked why she can't just force America to take her wherever she wants, and her reply ("what if they get sick?") was so dumb it might have been better just not to address it, just like they didn't address why she isn't looking for Vision.

Almost every review, even the positive ones, found the script to be one of the weaker points of the film, so the answer to any question about Wanda in this film is that the script doesn't make sense.

[Albert1981]

Funnily enough I saw that episode just yesterday again.
Agatha wasn't quite sure at first who she really was dealing with. Hence why she went through Wandas memories. Only after seeing Wanda create the hex she recognized it as Chaos magic and went into power stealing mode.

It's subtle but the ending has quite a few moments where darker personality traits shined through. When Wanda said that she was sorry, Agatha responds with "no you are not. You are cruel." Wanda smirks in response and then permanently brainwashes her.

The way she left certainly wasn't the action of a hero who was officially an Avenger either. Instead of putting things right and facing justice, she talks about wanting to understand her own power and just leaves.

Now I have no problems with all that. As matter of fact I really like it. Wanda isn't Mother Theresa or Captain America to stay in the genre. She never was and probably never will be. She will do what she feels is right according to her even if others disagree with it. If that means joining Hydra and taking revenge on Tony Stark then so be it. If it means avoiding the authorities and leaving all her colleagues in the Avengers behind in a quest to explore her own powers then so be it. Like she said in her conversation with Monica. Knowing the full story wouldn't change the way the others perceive her so she doesn't even bother with it.

THAT is PRECISELY the reason why I don't think Disney should keep pumping out new Marvel content so quickly. You have to watch the Marvel movies and shows SEVERAL times sometimes to pick up on things that are not obvious at first. It's easier to do that if there are less to films and television series to view in my opinion. How can Marvel fans and more importantly creators do that if there are dozens and dozens of properties to keep track of? I think it's impossible. And the MoM creators apparently didn't watch WandaVision even ONCE.

Yes, Wanda continued her torturing ways at the end of WandaVision. I wasn't thrilled with that creative decision, but I imagine this will have implications in Harkness's show. I do think Wanda doing the multiverse "thing" in MoM just led to more confusion. Even if White Vision DIDN'T exist in the "main universe", Wanda absolutely should have tried to find an "alternate reality" with her parents, Pietro and Vision (as well as Billy and Tommy in it). The only thing I can think of to explain their absence is that Hex Vision "forgot" to tell Wanda about White Vision and Wanda accepted Agatha's explanation that "necromancy was out of the question" when it came to reviving Pietro and her parents. Wanda probably thought she could salvage what was left of her family by looking only for the boys when they called out to her, but other "parallel universes" should have Wanda's OTHER family in them, so that explanation still makes no sense to me. Unless, there are only like three possible "alternate realities" to look into. I imagine it was not explained "how big" the multiverse was in Strange 2. Sigh.

My main issue is STILL with Agatha in regards to WandaVision. We still don't know what her motivations in Westview were besides her lust for Wanda's power. Like why did she need it? She got plenty of power from those other hags in 1693 or whatever. Did she have some evil plan to use Wanda's powers for diabolical purposes? Or did she just want Wanda's magic to sustain her own existence? That was never really explained in WandaVision. And she lied a LOT. Even in the final boss battle between Agatha and Wanda, there was this exchange:

AGATHA: Give me your power and I will correct the flaws in your original spell. And you and your family, and the people of Westview can all live together in peace. And no one will ever have to feel this pain again. Not even you.

And after Agatha sucked more of Wanda's power:

AGATHA: About our deal… Once cast, a spell can never be changed. This world you made will always be broken. Just like… you.

Besides, it was already shown in WandaVision that when witches drain the powers of other witches, the drained ladies DON'T survive the ordeal. I just don't know when Agatha is telling the truth. They really needed to flesh out her character a bit more. Guess we're gonna have to wait for her series to find out why Agatha "wants power".

[Albert1981]

I wish they'd go into the different types of magic at all. And they've had since Thor was introduced to do it.

Because the MCU has really been pushing the angle of 'Magic is just highly advanced science' for a long time, so in my opinion, it's almost entirely Sci-Fi with some minor Fantasy elements.

WandaVision was kind of a confusing series. Wanda was torturing the residents of Westview, BUT in Episode 5 of WandaVision, I felt like Wanda didn't entirely know what was going on either:



Was Wanda in a "fugue state" or something? I dunno.

[GenericUsername]

Because the MCU has really been pushing the angle of 'Magic is just highly advanced science' for a long time

Exactly. And they continued to fail magic with this movie.

[GenericUsername]

I don't think America would feel pain like the people of Westview. Wanda thought she would feel happy with her boys.

Also debatable since her control of America was never put on screen. And Wanda's powers at the least were giving people their worst fears even before WV.

Of course Wanda felt that she'd be happy with her boys. So it makes none of this make sense. Since the path of least resistance would have been to go to some remote island away from society and recreate her hex bubble.

[GenericUsername]

Hey, if we are talking about avoiding bad writing.
Death surely feels like a blessing lol.

It's sad but feels true in Wanda's case several times. People coming up with more nightmare theories for her proves it would probably be for the best.

[Lucky99]

It's sad but feels true in Wanda's case several times. People coming up with more nightmare theories for her proves it would probably be for the best.

No, no, no...it's not for the best. She may have to bail everyone out when it gets tough again. Magneto is coming. Jean is coming. Silver Surfer is coming. Doom. All the FF. Kang. She may have to confront these characters.

[GenericUsername]

No, no, no...it's not for the best. She may have to bail everyone out when it gets tough again. Magneto is coming. Jean is coming. Silver Surfer is coming. Doom. All the FF. Kang. She may have to confront these characters.

If her return is using her as a plot device, then yes, it is for the best. Having her come in just to solve everyone's problems or make them worse is not better.

[CJStriker]

No, no, no...it's not for the best. She may have to bail everyone out when it gets tough again. Magneto is coming. Jean is coming. Silver Surfer is coming. Doom. All the FF. Kang. She may have to confront these characters.

I agree Lucky99 in a similar sense, that being it is not good to have MCU Wanda gone or dead for good because then the recent stories of MoM are left unresolved and unexplained. A comeback story with fixes and sticking with explanations they started with the Darkhold and going further is exactly what is best needed. To then go head 1st from their and work with the truer lore in Wanda’s history and then develop her. Get Miss Olsen too a better and more freer contract and Wanda in MCU can go up from their.

[gurkle]

No, no, no...it's not for the best. She may have to bail everyone out when it gets tough again. Magneto is coming. Jean is coming. Silver Surfer is coming. Doom. All the FF. Kang. She may have to confront these characters.

Why?

"WandaVision" was good because it paired Wanda characters who are actually from her own lore: Vision, Agatha, the boys. "Multiverse of Madness" was bad for her because it forgot about almost everyone she knows, including Vision, and had her killing a bunch of random characters she has nothing to do with.

One of the few good things about the movie was that there was no mention of Magneto, which at least reinforces the fact that Magneto is a minor part of her character history in the comics and nonexistent in the MCU.

MCU Wanda should be allowed to actually have her own stories, not randomly encounter characters who have nothing to do with her at all. If she would stay out of big crossover movies forever it would be a good thing.

[Lucky99]

If her return is using her as a plot device, then yes, it is for the best. Having her come in just to solve everyone's problems or make them worse is not better.

It's not about the fights...her dialogue with them.should be good stuff. She's gray area now. Anti hero with the casualties of her latest move. Let's see how she proceeds.

[GenericUsername]

I agree Lucky99 in a similar sense, that being it is not good to have MCU Wanda gone or dead for good because then the recent stories of MoM are left unresolved and unexplained. A comeback story with fixes and sticking with explanations they started with the Darkhold and going further is exactly what is best needed. To then go head 1st from their and work with the truer lore in Wanda’s history and then develop her. Get Miss Olsen too a better and more freer contact and Wanda in MCU can go up from their.

If all they have for her is display of her powers without any care for her character then it is definitely not better. I do want Wanda in more things, but not until people understand that representation of strong female characters is not being reduced to their powers. To how many people they can beat. It is a well-rounded, well-developed female character. If her future only use is to be brood mare for the X-Men and Young Avengers, that is not empowering to her. It's empowering to them.

[GenericUsername]

It's not about the fights...her dialogue with them.should be good stuff. She's gray area now. Anti hero with the casualties of her latest move. Let's see how she proceeds.

It's still using her as a plot device. Do you not understand what good characterization or strong female characterization actually is? Hint, it is not how many people she can beat.

[CJStriker]

If all they have for her is display of her powers without any care for her character then it is definitely not better. I do want Wanda in more things, but not until people understand that representation of strong female characters is not being reduced to their powers. To how many people they can beat. It is a well-rounded, well-developed female character. If her future only use is to be brood mare for the X-Men and Young Avengers, that is not empowering to her. It's empowering to them.

Indeed and that was what I meant, MoM was most a plot device movie for every character involved it seemed, cared little about characters and more about setting up flimsy world building without including near any past character development or care even for the tilte characters leading it. So while death is not a good idea indeed, more of the same in world building flimsy lists bad too, so the heart is to get back to the character focus, use the lore and build from their.

Really the MCU will not go far if they keep pumping out flimsy movie like these, yea it might make money, but then you lose more on the next and the next and sadly it continues then it is not the characters but the creators that lost sight.