"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[gurkle]

It's funny, one thing I worried about before the film came out (and I saw other people, not here, worry about this) is they might just replace regular Wanda with the nice 838 version. Obviously that's not going to happen after seing the movie, because 838 Wanda had no personality, almost no lines, and no characteristics except being a mom (her kids also had no personality, unlike the WandaVision versions). I doubt we'll ever see her again because what would be the point?

It's pretty well known at this point that the movie doesn't have that much to do with the multiverse (the plot leak from last summer had a whole final fight where Wanda and America go in and out of different universes... with the pandemic and Olsen's unavailability for reshoots I imagine they just ran out of time to film it). But it's still a disappointment that with all the talk of different Wandas in different universes we don't even get another Wanda, just a meat puppet for her to possess.

[MaximoffTrash]

That is why I am okay with using her as the plot device for the main Wanda. Hey if Wanda is not important to warrant the golden girl treatment and reducing others around her as foil and support, she is allowed to use herself right?

Like actually use 838 Wanda as the cautionary tale of what will happen if she is too afraid of herself or something.
She can make or break Chthon's plan, that is her special position she alone can fulfill.

[Albert1981]

ITMoM was destined to have problems just because of when it was made. All the stops in production and reshoots really did it no favors. I don't think any character was done any justice, but like I said, I enjoyed the costumes and the acting at least. It won't be something I watch ever again. I don't think it really is something that pushes the story forward much. I think it was just a vehicle for Raimi to get back into directing. And had his hallmark all over it more than Strange's or anyone else.

I liked WandaVision because it made references to Wanda's history and humanized her. I wasn't really for the whole keeping a whole town hostage thing, but in the end people were at least not killed. It's just a shame that the ending of all that where she realized what she did was wasted on possession and a mass murderer arc. But hopefully they got AD/HoM references out of their system so they can finally move on from that. I also liked Wanda's magical girl transformation. I just don't like the Scarlet Witch being some separate, dark entity instead of just her hero name. I love the costume though.

I don't know about Mission Impossible performing better. Even when Marvel movies aren't as great as their others, they still do better than other movies. They release movies close together because they are making up for the lost year during the pandemic, and because of money. I'm fine with the D+ shows. Most of them have been pretty great. Granted they have their fair share of flaws but so does every movie and show. It probably is too much, but I'm enjoying most of it. And at least Thor doesn't have any of the multiverse stuff in it. That's the thing I find to be messy.

Yeah, I'm not sure if MoM could have NOT been messy. Lots of things going on. I knew there would be problems after the original writer and director left. I think the Disney Plus shows are fine. I think the actors and actresses in them are giving it their all, and I really appreciate that. Ten years ago most of these "thespians" would not have deigned to put in so much effort performing in superhero properties. So I think that's great. People have criticized the writing in some of the shows, but I don't really blame the writers. I blame the tight deadlines that have been forced upon them by Marvel Studios. I still think Captain Marvel could have been a MUCH better movie if they fixed some of the stuff in the first half of that movie. I thought the creators of Captain Marvel found their rhythm in the second part of that film. But since Endgame was coming out so soon after CM, they didn't have time to improve on what they had. Things worked out nicely, but there was some lost potential there.

I wasn't thrilled with the people of Westview being tortured by Wanda, but at least there was some nuance in how the whole affair went down. I think the finale could have been executed more smoothly, but Disney was really pushing for it to be released in early 2021, so things were rushed AGAIN. I'm pretty sure the end result was not exactly what Schaeffer and Shakman had in mind. Wanda "becoming" the Scarlet Witch was cool though. And the stuff about "runes" was pretty interesting as well as visually entertaining. I actually thought all the costumes in WandaVision were pretty good. I personally liked Wanda being a wife and mother. She wasn't both of those things for a very long time in the comics, but I thought her weird little family was pretty endearing. Lots of people did. Not sure if they're gonna all be reunited now because the MCU seems pretty obsessed about "following the comics" these days. What impressed me was how WandaVision balanced Wanda and Vision in a way that didn't shortchange either of them. Other Marvel movies and shows haven't really gotten that balance right in my opinion. I think Falcon & The Winter Soldier and Hawkeye were not as strong as WandaVision in that regard. I definitely feel Disney is putting out too many Marvel and Star Wars shows in the next few years, but the quality hasn't been THAT bad in my opinion. I do feel it's slipping a bit though. Feige and Kennedy must be EXHAUSTED!

I wouldn't count out Tom Cruise. People seem to really like him (whether he's jumping on couches or out of planes). I was talking to my dad the other day, and he doesn't think there's a single star in Hollywood who can draw audiences into theaters like he can. I think he's got a far wider appeal than basically ALL of the MCU's stars. I'm old enough to remember him doing pictures like Rain Man, Top Gun, A Few Good Men, The Firm, Interview with the Vampire and Jerry Maguire. To re-invent himself as an "action hero" as he got OLDER was such a risky AND great career move. It totally worked for him. I definitely respect his work ethic...Even though the Scientology stuff is extremely weird.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm personally VERY interested in how the MCU is received by the NON diehard fanbase. In the past decade, Marvel Studios has done an INCREDIBLE job of making sure their projects appeal to casual audiences as well as the nerds. But I do feel that there is a little bit of shift to favoring the geeks lately. I think you view WandaVision more from the vantage point of a comic book reader than I do (obviously that's very understandable considering we are commenting on a Scarlet Witch thread). For me, I look at how did it attract viewers who are NOT traditional followers of the superhero genre. And I think Wanda's show truly succeeded there. Plenty of people like WandaVision and many of them don't have any idea who the Avengers are (and they kind of don't have to). I KNOW for a FACT many kids wanted to learn how to play Agatha All Along in their music classes after watching WandaVision. And the sitcom premise of WandaVision was super accessible for casual fans. I think shows like Loki, Moon Knight and even Hawkeye are a little bit harder to get into for "normies". I feel this way because I was a casual reader of the comics back in the day, so I think I have somewhat of an understanding about how casual audiences feel about the MCU. Apparently Ms. Marvel is VERY easy to get into though, and it makes me happy Feige is trying to draw in different demographics to watch the Marvel content he produces. I'm actually sort of dreading Loki 2 and Ant-Man 3. I'm just not too sure if general audiences are THAT interested in the multiversal/time travel stuff. For ME, once folks introduce "time travel" and "alternate realities" into stories, logic and stakes usually go out windows FAST. And the exposition "explaining" these concepts often is boring as hell and makes no actual sense. I'm REALLY happy Thor is probably going to be much simpler. I enjoyed Ragnarok immensely. The MoM was just too confusing and convoluted for me. Maybe comic book fans are more used to that kind of thing, but I never liked it when I was reading the comics.

[GenericUsername]

Yeah, I'm not sure if MoM could have NOT been messy. Lots of things going on. I knew there would be problems after the original writer and director left. I think the Disney Plus shows are fine. I think the actors and actresses in them are giving it their all, and I really appreciate that. Ten years ago most of these "thespians" would not have deigned to put in so much effort performing in superhero properties. So I think that's great. People have criticized the writing in some of the shows, but I don't really blame the writers. I blame the tight deadlines that have been forced upon them by Marvel Studios. I still think Captain Marvel could have been a MUCH better movie if they fixed some of the stuff in the first half of that movie. I thought the creators of Captain Marvel found their rhythm in the second part of that film. But since Endgame was coming out so soon after CM, they didn't have time to improve on what they had. Things worked out nicely, but there was some lost potential there.

I wasn't thrilled with the people of Westview being tortured by Wanda, but at least there was some nuance in how the whole affair went down. I think the finale could have been executed more smoothly, but Disney was really pushing for it to be released in early 2021, so things were rushed AGAIN. I'm pretty sure the end result was not exactly what Schaeffer and Shakman had in mind. Wanda "becoming" the Scarlet Witch was cool though. And the stuff about "runes" was pretty interesting as well as visually entertaining. I actually thought all the costumes in WandaVision were pretty good. I personally liked Wanda being a wife and mother. She wasn't both of those things for a very long time in the comics, but I thought her weird little family was pretty endearing. Lots of people did. Not sure if they're gonna all be reunited now because the MCU seems pretty obsessed about "following the comics" these days. What impressed me was how WandaVision balanced Wanda and Vision in a way that didn't shortchange either of them. Other Marvel movies and shows haven't really gotten that balance right in my opinion. I think Falcon & The Winter Soldier and Hawkeye were not as strong as WandaVision in that regard. I definitely feel Disney is putting out too many Marvel and Star Wars shows in the next few years, but the quality hasn't been THAT bad in my opinion. I do feel it's slipping a bit though. Feige and Kennedy must be EXHAUSTED!

I wouldn't count out Tom Cruise. People seem to really like him (whether he's jumping on couches or out of planes). I was talking to my dad the other day, and he doesn't think there's a single star in Hollywood who can draw audiences into theaters like he can. I think he's got a far wider appeal than basically ALL of the MCU's stars. I'm old enough to remember him doing pictures like Rain Man, Top Gun, A Few Good Men, The Firm, Interview with the Vampire and Jerry Maguire. To re-invent himself as an "action hero" as he got OLDER was such a risky AND great career move. It totally worked for him. I definitely respect his work ethic...Even though the Scientology stuff is extremely weird.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm personally VERY interested in how the MCU is received by the NON diehard fanbase. In the past decade, Marvel Studios has done an INCREDIBLE job of making sure their projects appeal to casual audiences as well as the nerds. But I do feel that there is a little bit of shift to favoring the geeks lately. I think you view WandaVision more from the vantage point of a comic book reader than I do (obviously that's very understandable considering we are commenting on a Scarlet Witch thread). For me, I look at how did it attract viewers who are NOT traditional followers of the superhero genre. And I think Wanda's show truly succeeded there. Plenty of people like WandaVision and many of them don't have any idea who the Avengers are (and they kind of don't have to). I KNOW for a FACT many kids wanted to learn how to play Agatha All Along in their music classes after watching WandaVision. And the sitcom premise of WandaVision was super accessible for casual fans. I think shows like Loki, Moon Knight and even Hawkeye are a little bit harder to get into for "normies". I feel this way because I was a casual reader of the comics back in the day, so I think I have somewhat of an understanding about how casual audiences feel about the MCU. Apparently Ms. Marvel is VERY easy to get into though, and it makes me happy Feige is trying to draw in different demographics to watch the Marvel content he produces. I'm actually sort of dreading Loki 2 and Ant-Man 3. I'm just not too sure if general audiences are THAT interested in the multiversal/time travel stuff. For ME, once folks introduce "time travel" and "alternate realities" into stories, logic and stakes usually go out windows FAST. And the exposition "explaining" these concepts often is boring as hell and makes no actual sense. I'm REALLY happy Thor is probably going to be much simpler. I enjoyed Ragnarok immensely. The MoM was just too confusing and convoluted for me. Maybe comic book fans are more used to that kind of thing, but I never liked it when I was reading the comics.

Tom Cruise is a big star but very little seems to be able to compete with Marvel movies still.

And I think general audiences can keep up with some of the nerdier stuff pretty well. Some have requested what comics to read for certain aspects as well. Like with Wanda's show and people wanting to read Vision and the Scarlet Witch and just about any comic she had been in. And I think the multiverse stuff isn't just possibly confusing to them. It can be for long time readers of comics too. But hopefully they can work that stuff out fast. I don't see the multiverse stuff staying around.

We'll see how everything goes with possible burn out. With the producers and with fans.

[GenericUsername]

For anyone that doesn't have this Funko Pop yet, they are giving away a WandaVision Scarlet Witch Glow in the Dark Entertainment Earth Exclusive pop on Twitter: https://twitter.com/OriginalFunko/st...89470721441792

[Cubbyboo]

For anyone that doesn't have this Funko Pop yet, they are giving away a WandaVision Scarlet Witch Glow in the Dark Entertainment Earth Exclusive pop on Twitter: https://twitter.com/OriginalFunko/st...89470721441792

So interestingly the first runs of the boxes have correct sku but black eyes on box. They fixed and now the box has red eyes. The vendor I bought from sent me one with black- But they had red eyed box as pic on their site for sale, so I emailed to ask about it. I didn't know about the error- or defect as the seller called it- but they promptly sent me a correct one no charge, which was nice and I didn't expect. Wonder if misprint -or w/e it actually is called - will become an unintentional variant of a variant collector's item.

[Cubbyboo]

That is why I am okay with using her as the plot device for the main Wanda. Hey if Wanda is not important to warrant the golden girl treatment and reducing others around her as foil and support, she is allowed to use herself right?

Like actually use 838 Wanda as the cautionary tale of what will happen if she is too afraid of herself or something.
She can make or break Chthon's plan, that is her special position she alone can fulfill.

This is a Great idea and good for her solo which better be written by Jac Schaeffer. Just rewatched on tv - sister wanted to see it and I love her so i said "Oh, Okay but you gotta make dinner". Lizzie's acting in that final scene was stellar. Caught many more subtle nuances and inflections that I hadn't being upset and all. Also her makeup was definitely changed after the possession was broken. THAT should have been much more pronounced (I know y'all hate it but it's done so we gotta hope they learn and do her right next time) She also was demonically possessed so to speak- i caught it when she came through the mirrors/reflections in her body and her face was totally demonic when she took out Xavier. Pointy razor teeth, Possessed evil eyes and grey leather skin. Enough of that> the point is she is redeemable in this. It was more obvious as Stephen said- Wanda's gone. So your idea- now that this movie is MCU cannon- is a great way to bring her back- Reclaim the Scarlet Witch title for herself and make it so that yes - "She can make or break Chthon's plan, that is her special position she alone can fulfill" . That's smart and well thought out. They need you on script and movie duty as advisor.

[Cubbyboo]

You make a valid point here but honestly I don't dislike it. Many of these people actually know each other so it makes sense they refer to themselves with their real names. I always found it odd out when somebody calls someone by the their superhero name despite being very familiar with that person. What's the reason for it? There is not much if any in-universe reason to do that.

It makes more sense that people who don't have a personal relationship with the hero in question to use them. Still there must be some gravitas and significance to the name. Captain America for example has that. It's not just a name. It's a symbol and has values attached it. It's larger than life. Hawkeye as a name has none of those things going for it. Don't take this as me shitting on it. I like MCU Clint a lot but with his story and character it makes sense that his superhero name hasn't found much use because there is not much reason why he or anyone else would even start using it.

With all this being said I like how they handled it in Wandas case. Wandas powers were always shrouded in mystery. To us as the audience and also to her as the character. She just thought stuff and it happened. Using the Scarlet Witch name before the big Chaos Magic reveal wouldn't have had the same effect. The way it was set up also means there is significance to the name. It's obviously not as universal as Captain America yet since you need to be well-versed in magic lore to recognize it but the people that are will probably not treat it lightly.

On this I can see what you are saying as relates to MCU. I really want her to own this name in her solo - IT WILL HAPPEN, IT MUST- and make it hers and hers alone and not tied any longer to prophecy but as her moniker that she takes and claims as a hero. I also like the idea of her being the only one who can take Chthon down due to being The Scarlet Witch with all the magic and significance behind it.

[Cubbyboo]

Yeah, I can appreciate that distinction. My issue is that I'm not even sure Wanda "loved" those boys. She acted like a crazy stalker who was more interesting in "possessing" the twins as opposed to wanting to raise them. I think there are some similarities to the psychological thriller Fatal Attraction. Glenn Close didn't think Alex Forrest was a "villain" either. But the creators of the film made her into a "psychopath" against her wishes. Instead of being obsessed over babies, Forrest was obsessed with a dude she had a brief fling with. But that movie was VERY entertaining and fun. Close is a great actress. One of my brother's favorites. So maybe this is Disney's "version" of that film.

I think a lot of people liked WandaVision because it didn't FEEL like a superhero property for overwhelming majority of the series. Like in eight out of the nine episodes, hardly any comic book silliness took place at all. At the time of its release, I admit to being a bit impatient about this radical change in direction for Marvel Studios, but in retrospect I think it was really brave for Feige and his team to maintain WandaVision's sitcom premise for so long (knowing that they might lose a substantial number of viewers more interested in traditional superhero fare, while gaining a whole bunch of new fans because of the themes of the series). I also think a lot of WOMEN who are not into comic book movies and shows got interested in WandaVision because it was a mystery, drama and ROMANCE in particular. I feel it's a shame that Marvel Studios sort of threw that originality away to make a cheesy horror film. Folks have criticized Waldron's and Raimi's portrayal of women in the MoM, but I don't think Loki (which Waldron worked on) or Xena: Warrior Princess (which Raimi worked on) were particularly problematic in that aspect.

Interesting what each person pulls from something. I definitely Felt she loved the boys - esp in her opening scene in MOM, but also in WV- loved when she said "thank you for choosing me". Not negating your viewpoint at all - just interesting what we all take away from something.

[Cubbyboo]

What makes the Strange versus Wanda thing sexist is not the possession, it's how it's framed. Both have been possessed several times in comics and now have been possessed in movies. Or at the very least manipulated. Only Wanda's is framed around everything being about her being maternal. That's the sexist part. Everything about Wanda is boiled down to being baby crazy. And movies pretty much made it worse that she wasn't even trying to get back her own sons. Strange gets his framed around trying to save the world, and failing........


I liked WandaVision because it made references to Wanda's history and humanized her. I wasn't really for the whole keeping a whole town hostage thing, but in the end people were at least not killed. It's just a shame that the ending of all that where she realized what she did was wasted on possession and a mass murderer arc. But hopefully they got AD/HoM references out of their system so they can finally move on from that. I also liked Wanda's magical girl transformation. I just don't like the Scarlet Witch being some separate, dark entity instead of just her hero name. I love the costume though.

On the first paragraph - Yes i def wish she had been trying to get back her own sons esp after she heard their voices in WV post credit final scene but then ofc we would have a totally different movie prob written by Jac Schaeffer. At least they could have made it VERY clear the Darkhold was possessing and manipulating her and causing her to go after the alt reality boys.

On the second paragraph I wish had at least tol them she hadn't realized what she'd done intially and somehow or another said she would attempt to make it up to them (or something- I dunno what -but just something so they knew she acknowledged it and undid it as soon as she realized truly what had happened) and if this was AD/HOM in one then I also wish they'd made it aboslutely clear that the Darkhold's possession was warping her mind to committing the atrocities. Anyhow it's done. Hope they move her forward in a solo. Yes she was beautiful, except in the Prof X death scene where she was looking very demonic.

[Cubbyboo]

Hey I like you


You make a valid point here but honestly I don't dislike it. Many of these people actually know each other so it makes sense they refer to themselves with their real names. I always found it odd out when somebody calls someone by the their superhero name despite being very familiar with that person. What's the reason for it? There is not much if any in-universe reason to do that.

It makes more sense that people who don't have a personal relationship with the hero in question to use them. Still there must be some gravitas and significance to the name. Captain America for example has that. It's not just a name. It's a symbol and has values attached it. It's larger than life. Hawkeye as a name has none of those things going for it. Don't take this as me shitting on it. I like MCU Clint a lot but with his story and character it makes sense that his superhero name hasn't found much use because there is not much reason why he or anyone else would even start using it.

With all this being said I like how they handled it in Wandas case. Wandas powers were always shrouded in mystery. To us as the audience and also to her as the character. She just thought stuff and it happened. Using the Scarlet Witch name before the big Chaos Magic reveal wouldn't have had the same effect. The way it was set up also means there is significance to the name. It's obviously not as universal as Captain America yet since you need to be well-versed in magic lore to recognize it but the people that are will probably not treat it lightly.

On that first sentence- Thanks :-) Same here.

On the name Scarlet Witch and it's significance and gravitas in the MCU- now that the movie is over 950 million - it may hit a billion as it's still doing around 200k domestically daily so adding in worldwide i guess there mighhtttttt be a shot.

Jun 23 Thursday $375,860
Jun 24 Friday $565,150
Jun 25 Saturday $744,113
Jun 26 Sunday $471,330
Jun 27 Monday $244,103
Jun 28 Tuesday $251,419
Jun 29 Wednesday $222,382

Point being now that it's done this well at the box office without China and Russia (I think?) and the Middle East - which if they had been incl. it would have easily done over 1Billion by now - we damn well better get a fully satisfying solo movie that redeems and evolves her back toward the light and deals with Chthon and the title and gravitas of Scarlet Witch and using it and taking it as her title/moniker vs the prophecy's etc.... personally I think she'll come back at the end of House of Harkness and lead to her solo. No thoughts on whether they will end up friends, enemies or frenemies. Whew all those posts wore me out!!

[Galerion]

I agree that while the name has been given to her in a dark context we will surely see the journey where she really will make it her's.

It's really impressive in how many ways they can continue. There are recent rumors about Billy, there are rumors about Dr. Doom, there is the Chthon angle and there is Agatha.

[Cubbyboo]

I agree that while the name has been given to her in a dark context we will surely see the journey where she really will make it her's.

It's really impressive in how many ways they can continue. There are recent rumors about Billy, there are rumors about Dr. Doom, there is the Chthon angle and there is Agatha.

Yes, love that there are options, and they better get a move on...............And do it fabulously!!

[CJStriker]

It's funny, one thing I worried about before the film came out (and I saw other people, not here, worry about this) is they might just replace regular Wanda with the nice 838 version. Obviously that's not going to happen after seing the movie, because 838 Wanda had no personality, almost no lines, and no characteristics except being a mom (her kids also had no personality, unlike the WandaVision versions). I doubt we'll ever see her again because what would be the point?

It's pretty well known at this point that the movie doesn't have that much to do with the multiverse (the plot leak from last summer had a whole final fight where Wanda and America go in and out of different universes... with the pandemic and Olsen's unavailability for reshoots I imagine they just ran out of time to film it). But it's still a disappointment that with all the talk of different Wandas in different universes we don't even get another Wanda, just a meat puppet for her to possess.

Yea I have seen enought of 838 Wanda in clips I am able to Watch(I Still Refuse to Watch the Movie, Sorry) and she is sweet and a nice very of Wanda overall.

BUT, I would Hate that Marvel would Replace our Wanda from the Main MCU Universe we have been on this journey with with an brand spanking new shiny one as a way to I guess buy us over and say this is a Good Version with No problems like WE Marvle Studios cause with our Main MCU one. I would be completely against that idea and might start my major decent against the MCU if that happen.

I am sure that Loki and Gameria Fans might have similiar feelings too.

I say if Wanda is to come back it is either the Main MCU one in which they give her a comback story, not a replacement.

P.S.~If their are any fans of 838 version Wanda I am not against her character at all, I like her to what I know and am glad she has supports, I just would not support her as the New Main Wanda replacing the One we have been seeing grow and grown with in the MCU since AoU 2015, I just find that as a cop-out by the MCU.

[gurkle]

Yea I have seen enought of 838 Wanda in clips I am able to Watch(I Still Refuse to Watch the Movie, Sorry) and she is sweet and a nice very of Wanda overall.

BUT, I would Hate that Marvel would Replace our Wanda from the Main MCU Universe we have been on this journey with with an brand spanking new shiny one as a way to I guess buy us over and say this is a Good Version with No problems like WE Marvle Studios cause with our Main MCU one. I would be completely against that idea and might start my major decent against the MCU if that happen.

I am sure that Loki and Gameria Fans might have similiar feelings too.

Feige seems to think the only thing that matters about Wanda is she's lost everyone she's ever loved, he would never replace her with someone whose children are alive and well. (Who the father was, I don't know because they never mention whether Vision exists anywhere else.)