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  1. #4231
    Witch Fan of CBR 2012! CJStriker's Avatar
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    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2022!

  2. #4232
    Astonishing Member Galerion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    As late as the early '90s they still had to give some semi-scientific "probability" explanation for what Wanda was doing, because they couldn't just say she was using magic.

    That's not really a bad thing, though, now that I think of it. At least they have to explain exactly how she broke the spell. A weakness of the Robinson run is she would just happen to have a spell handy for any situation.

    I guess if I were a writer (not that any writers are writing her these days) I'd keep the magic but also keep the fake-scientific explanations of how her magic works.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    That's kinda the problem with writing more traditional mage in a soft magic system I guess.
    With Stephen, at least he has a decades of comic appearances to familiarize the audience with his classic spell set-up(which again doesn't actually prevent him from having asspulls.)
    Putting an energy/spell slot/mana kind of limitation on those kind of characters are the most reasonable way to balance them I think.
    Pre-90s Wanda are kinda like spell-slot mage who kinda tires out after using her power for too long, Post-90s she is more like manabar mage with decent recovery, but she cannot pull off big feats without buffing herself with some energy source first.
    Busiek is kinda right in merging Probability Manipulation and Reality Warping as the same thing, I mean "turn of events" are kinda part of the very reality.

    Current comic Wanda essentially has a more permanent buff with Darkhold/Chthon, which opens up more interesting potential I guess.
    There is the thing that if you start to explain magic then it ceases to be magic. That's what makes it different from science. Even in all these magical schools and universities in fiction the research basically bows down to if I do A, B happens or if I combine A and B, C happens. It's pretty much never deeper than that.

    I'm reminded about what the Ancient One said to Strange who as a man science struggled with understanding magic. "Not everything makes sense and it doesn't have to."

    I get where you are coming from though. In games you have a resource be it mana, spell slots or just cooldowns and you have a list of spells with pre-defined effects so at any point in time you know what someone is capable of and what not.

    I just don't believe these kind of rulesets translate well to other media though. I mean imagine if Strange could only cast 5 spells before having to rest. That would be kinda lame especially when others like Thor or Captain Marvel or any mutant could use their powers all day.


    Sure a magic user pulling out the exact spell that is needed to win might come off as cheap but that's because the storyteller just failed at his job then.
    In Immortal X-Men #2 Hope killed Selene with an Anti-Magic bullet which was a complete asspull too so that's not something that is unique to magic either.
    Meanwhile Gandalf freeing Theodon from Sarumans influence didn't feel like an asspull despite the fact they we never got any insight at all into what Gandalfs abilities are.


    Quote Originally Posted by froggyisnewtocomics View Post
    i think they should embrace their comic book roots more, there's nothing wrong with that if it's done right (just like dc), mcu costume are always overdesigned, they try so hard to be realistic
    I wouldn't call MCU costumes over designed but there is certainly the trend to make them look like modern body armor which fits some characters but not all.

    That being said I really like both Scarlet Witch costumes that we have seen so far with MoM being my favorite because they made it look more witchy and less like body armor



    "This is me being reasonable"

  3. #4233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    There is the thing that if you start to explain magic then it ceases to be magic. That's what makes it different from science. Even in all these magical schools and universities in fiction the research basically bows down to if I do A, B happens or if I combine A and B, C happens. It's pretty much never deeper than that.

    I'm reminded about what the Ancient One said to Strange who as a man science struggled with understanding magic. "Not everything makes sense and it doesn't have to."

    I get where you are coming from though. In games you have a resource be it mana, spell slots or just cooldowns and you have a list of spells with pre-defined effects so at any point in time you know what someone is capable of and what not.

    I just don't believe these kind of rulesets translate well to other media though. I mean imagine if Strange could only cast 5 spells before having to rest. That would be kinda lame especially when others like Thor or Captain Marvel or any mutant could use their powers all day.


    Sure a magic user pulling out the exact spell that is needed to win might come off as cheap but that's because the storyteller just failed at his job then.
    In Immortal X-Men #2 Hope killed Selene with an Anti-Magic bullet which was a complete asspull too so that's not something that is unique to magic either.
    Meanwhile Gandalf freeing Theodon from Sarumans influence didn't feel like an asspull despite the fact they we never got any insight at all into what Gandalfs abilities are.




    I wouldn't call MCU costumes over designed but there is certainly the trend to make them look like modern body armor which fits some characters but not all.

    That being said I really like both Scarlet Witch costumes that we have seen so far with MoM being my favorite because they made it look more witchy and less like body armor



    Well, just make their basic skill set cost-free for the most part.(Or that the cost is nearly the same as their recovery.)
    And make their heavy-hitting spells/abilities cost more, it's really simple.
    The mages can be pretty spammy with their basic skill set.
    But casting a mega nuke spell and nearly pass out from exhaustion afterwards is pretty reasonable. (Or they took a lot of time or outer energy source to charge it.)

  4. #4234
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    "In the Name of Mars, I'll hex you!".

  5. #4235

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    There is the thing that if you start to explain magic then it ceases to be magic. That's what makes it different from science. Even in all these magical schools and universities in fiction the research basically bows down to if I do A, B happens or if I combine A and B, C happens. It's pretty much never deeper than that.

    I'm reminded about what the Ancient One said to Strange who as a man science struggled with understanding magic. "Not everything makes sense and it doesn't have to."

    I get where you are coming from though. In games you have a resource be it mana, spell slots or just cooldowns and you have a list of spells with pre-defined effects so at any point in time you know what someone is capable of and what not.

    I just don't believe these kind of rulesets translate well to other media though. I mean imagine if Strange could only cast 5 spells before having to rest. That would be kinda lame especially when others like Thor or Captain Marvel or any mutant could use their powers all day.


    Sure a magic user pulling out the exact spell that is needed to win might come off as cheap but that's because the storyteller just failed at his job then.
    In Immortal X-Men #2 Hope killed Selene with an Anti-Magic bullet which was a complete asspull too so that's not something that is unique to magic either.
    Meanwhile Gandalf freeing Theodon from Sarumans influence didn't feel like an asspull despite the fact they we never got any insight at all into what Gandalfs abilities are.




    I wouldn't call MCU costumes over designed but there is certainly the trend to make them look like modern body armor which fits some characters but not all.

    That being said I really like both Scarlet Witch costumes that we have seen so far with MoM being my favorite because they made it look more witchy and less like body armor



    They've gone into some history of magic in comics without it being overbearing and without explaining everything. This movie didn't even try... in a Doctor Strange movie no less. It doesn't have to be an encyclopedia. But they could at the very least do bare minimum.

    I hope at least Strange's third film goes into lore about the Vishanti and the Faltine.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  6. #4236
    Astonishing Member Galerion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Well, just make their basic skill set cost-free for the most part.(Or that the cost is nearly the same as their recovery.)
    And make their heavy-hitting spells/abilities cost more, it's really simple.
    The mages can be pretty spammy with their basic skill set.
    But casting a mega nuke spell and nearly pass out from exhaustion afterwards is pretty reasonable. (Or they took a lot of time or outer energy source to charge it.)
    You interested in defining what a basic skill set of Wanda would be and what you would consider a nuke spell that cannot be used often?
    "This is me being reasonable"

  7. #4237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    You interested in defining what a basic skill set of Wanda would be and what you would consider a nuke spell that cannot be used often?
    The same way you differentiate walking and sprinting, there is no arbitrary line but I think people can understand the simple logic of different tasks taking different amount of energy out of you?

    Anyway, her showing at the end of Morgan Le Fay quest and Avengers No Surrender is her typical nuke which requires her teammates as battery of some sort..

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    Also a lot of fantasy works explain their magic system lol. Even the ones with softer magic systems.
    At least explain their origin and catergories, which deity grant which power etc.

    The notion that magic needs to be this ambiguous thing is ludicrous. Sure, Marvel Universe cannot be one of those fantasy world where magic is simply another version of science(with unique fantasy quirks).
    But it still has lot of interesting lore embedded into them. The LoTR example Galerion listed works because it goes smoothly with the narrative and the arc of those characters involved. It felt like a natural conclusion instead of "rushing to finish this storyline".
    Last edited by MaximoffTrash; 05-25-2022 at 09:12 AM.

  9. #4239
    Astonishing Member Witchfan's Avatar
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    DOCTOR STRANGE IN THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS: Check Out The Scarlet Witch's Insanely Detailed Hot Toys Figure
    https://comicbookmovie.com/doctor_st...3950#gs.1apq98

    FTnG1avaMAAn07T.jpg
    Last edited by Witchfan; 05-25-2022 at 09:35 AM.

  10. #4240

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Also a lot of fantasy works explain their magic system lol. Even the ones with softer magic systems.
    At least explain their origin and catergories, which deity grant which power etc.

    The notion that magic needs to be this ambiguous thing is ludicrous. Sure, Marvel Universe cannot be one of those fantasy world where magic is simply another version of science(with unique fantasy quirks).
    But it still has lot of interesting lore embedded into them. The LoTR example Galerion listed works because it goes smoothly with the narrative and the arc of those characters involved. It felt like a natural conclusion instead of "rushing to finish this storyline".
    Yeah this movie felt more like one of Marvel's events, where everything is pushed suddenly because the plot calls for it. And they know they can churn it out and still make loads off of it. It's how we got stuff like AD/HoM, Fear Itself and Original Sin.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  11. #4241
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Just watched the movie Everything, everywhere all at once. Can't sum up my review but at the very least.
    spoilers:
    The villain is actually fun and fitting for someone with supposed multiversal wisdom. While Wanda cannot even be the cool type of villain lol, when she became the villain, she is the most generic and utterly nonsensical type with the most mind-boggling motivation. Granted I actually fear Wanda becoming a "good/well-written villain" because that might just nail her to the other side permanently, but there is still the frustration that she cannot get good writing either way.

    And how the fuck did they make a fucking bagel cooler than Darkhold.
    end of spoilers
    Yeah, I KEEP hearing good things about EEAAO. Unlike many posters on these forums, I consider that movie FAR more successful than a lot of the studio "blockbusters" that have been released this year. According to this GQ article, many of them such as The Lost City, Morbius, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore, The Bad Guys, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness are already fading fast. But EEAAO is absolutely hanging in there. And that's almost entirely through word of mouth. I never even heard of EEAAO until I read and watched some reviews of the MoM which stated that EEAAO is the movie that the MoM should have been:

    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/cultur...office-success

    So I just don't look at nominal box office numbers to gauge a movie's success. I absolutely feel there's been a growing backlash against the MCU since the release of Black Widow last year. I think Disney should definitely be a bit concerned about what's going on. I don't even pay attention to "nerd" and "geek" websites and YouTube channels as much anymore. Remember, they have a VESTED INTEREST in superhero movies/shows doing well, and I don't consider them to be objective sources of information. I just found out about this chick Grace Randolph recently. I don't really give a shit about her "scooping". I'm more interested in her reviews because she's not afraid to criticize Marvel and DC when they are not living up to the hype.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 05-25-2022 at 10:22 AM.

  12. #4242
    Mighty Member Dipter's Avatar
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    Yeah, who could’ve guess that the indie movie made as a passion project by filmmakers with unrestricted creative vision would have better writing than corporate studio blockbusters? Crazy, right?

    If your not going by box office numbers, there really is no way to prove or disprove a movie’s “success.” It’s completely subjective at that point. All it comes down to is how much you personally enjoyed it.

  13. #4243
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipter View Post
    Yeah, who could’ve guess that the indie movie made as a passion project by filmmakers with unrestricted creative vision would have better writing than corporate studio blockbusters? Crazy, right?

    If your not going by box office numbers, there really is no way to prove or disprove a movie’s “success.” It’s completely subjective at that point. All it comes down to is how much you personally enjoyed it.
    But EEAAO has definitely succeeded at the box office. I don't there's any way folks can deny that. AND it has succeeded in the word of mouth game. Sonic 2, Fantastic Beasts and MoM all lost lost the better word of mouth game when compared with EEAAO, unfortunately. A combination of both is key, in my opinion, to what constitutes a "success" in Hollywood. I think corporate blockbusters can be creatively fulfilling and liberating for the folks working on them. I think the people working on WandaVision definitely did something different. And why can't Marvel explore the multiverses in more original ways? They're just using them to insert cameos into their movies at this point. And I'm pretty sure they're gonna do it again REPEATEDLY later on in this phase. Don't you want something more than that? I want MCU's movies and shows to stand on their own merits without relying on cameos and Easter eggs.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 05-25-2022 at 08:16 PM.

  14. #4244
    Astonishing Member Galerion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    The same way you differentiate walking and sprinting, there is no arbitrary line but I think people can understand the simple logic of different tasks taking different amount of energy out of you?

    Anyway, her showing at the end of Morgan Le Fay quest and Avengers No Surrender is her typical nuke which requires her teammates as battery of some sort..
    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Also a lot of fantasy works explain their magic system lol. Even the ones with softer magic systems.
    At least explain their origin and catergories, which deity grant which power etc.

    The notion that magic needs to be this ambiguous thing is ludicrous. Sure, Marvel Universe cannot be one of those fantasy world where magic is simply another version of science(with unique fantasy quirks).
    But it still has lot of interesting lore embedded into them. The LoTR example Galerion listed works because it goes smoothly with the narrative and the arc of those characters involved. It felt like a natural conclusion instead of "rushing to finish this storyline".
    I think this is more relevant to someone like Strange though. Wandas powers are innate, are they not? While someone like Strange has to study and deal with otherworldly entities to obtain power. It's basically the difference between a D&D Wizard and Sorcerer.
    Since this started with a focus on the MCU. Wanda has done incredible things already with nobody ever teaching her anything. I do expect the Agatha series to go deeper into witch lore and what exactly differentiates them from the sorcerers. So far we have only seen a few things like that witches can fly on their own while sorcerers cannot.
    "This is me being reasonable"

  15. #4245
    Astonishing Member Galerion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    DOCTOR STRANGE IN THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS: Check Out The Scarlet Witch's Insanely Detailed Hot Toys Figure
    https://comicbookmovie.com/doctor_st...3950#gs.1apq98
    I found these pictures on Instagram and really the details on this are incredible








    Im seriously thinking about ordering one of these but delivery is planned for mid to end of next year which is unfortunate.
    "This is me being reasonable"

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