"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[Witchfan]

Best Lego Scarlet Witch
https://www.wkbn.com/reviews/br/toys...scarlet-witch/

The recent “Wandavision” show on Disney+ was a big success. It featured Wanda Maximoff, aka the Scarlet Witch, alongside her love interest, Vision. Scarlet Witch has grown in popularity, and her merchandising sales have risen, too. Lego is beginning to include her in its sets.

[leokearon]

Was just thinking the same. I have trouble even following this conversation lol.

im not saying that the topic should be switched or anything like that so please continue. It's just funny because it is exactly what some people criticize about comics. Being a huge convoluted mess. Imagine telling all of this to an outsider who has never read a comic before.

Welcome to the Wonderful world of Retcons, where writers can't leave things alone.

[leokearon]

Again about Darkhold Omega.
One detail I wish they had for this story is that Wanda was kinda designed as Chthon's vessel, she was meant to contain Chthon.
It will be great if there is plan worked out by Wanda herself like she leant how to repurpose this specific function of hers to be used to imprison Chthon inside her instead. It would make the ending feel more earned and of course ironic in a good way. They can add such details in her solo as well.

Hopefully my comic shop will have Darkkhold Omega tomorrow, so I can finally read it.

[Lukmendes]

We don't find out for sure that Magda was dead until all the way in Children's Crusade.

Just checked it out and, when did Magneto even find her corpse to make a graveyard? And also how did her find it? Lol.

Their lore for the mutant thing is now they thought they were mutants. They really were not. Which I guess could happen if any powered character gets their powers in their teenage years, but isn't fully aware of the actual source. For Spidey he knew his came from a spider. Wanda and Pietro would have to wait a while to find out. They just originally went on Magneto's word that they were mutants.

I'm pretty sure more than once Sentinels identify them as mutants, Cerebro probably does so too, but I guess you can say High Evolutionary did something that can fool Sentinels.

I mean Moira is now a mutant despite not being one for years, so I guess we just accept this kind of bullshit now lol.

The Maximoffs have twin children that were Ana and Mateo, in the original Nights of Wundagore. Django just call Wanda and Pietro those names because his was kinda not right in the head after all the trauma.
The HE retcon(before Natalya) could be interpreted in this fashion, The Maximoffs had Ana and Mateo, HE kidnapped those children and the Maximoffs thought they were dead, later HE returned the babies to them and the Maximoffs probably didn't recognize them somehow and renamed them?

Maybe by that time they thought the babies were dead and just assumed High Evolutionary decided to give them a new pair lol.

(Also it raised another question, who named Wanda and Pietro in each iteration? Magda did name them as I recall. What about Whizzer&Miss America, and the Maximoffs version?)

Miss America named them in Giant Size Avengers#1 according to Bova (Or at least, Whizzer's retelling of the events):



It doesn't look like Magda named them in Avengers#186, or at least, Bova has no lines that indicate she did:





It's still possible for it to be the case, so it could be that Magda named the children, Bova offered them to Whizzer with the names Magda came up with, or Magda didn't name them, but Miss America did, so Bova decided to use the names Miss America came up with for Magda's children.

Hard to say what's up post retcons since it's not even clear if Marvel remembers about either Magda or Miss America at this point, but since the only common connection seems to be High Evolutionary, then the name must've come from there, but and maybe either Miss America or Magda came up with 'em, or maybe Marya did, or Natalya did, or I dunno, Bova came up with them lol.

So...Magda had twins who were alive and well, mid-wifed by Bova the Cow-Woman.....but they were not Wanda and Pietro.....so who are they?? Perhaps Aurora and Northstar???

They might've died like the rest of the twins, but it's unknown at this point lol.

Was just thinking the same. I have trouble even following this conversation lol.

im not saying that the topic should be switched or anything like that so please continue. It's just funny because it is exactly what some people criticize about comics. Being a huge convoluted mess. Imagine telling all of this to an outsider who has never read a comic before.

So, in order:

Giant Size Avengers#1, Whizzer and Miss America were Wanda's and Pietro's parents.

Avengers#186, it's actually this woman named Magda, and she went to Wundagore to to give birth to her kids in secret because of Magneto, and after she gave birth, she left the place to die so Magneto can never find the children, then, Whizzer and Miss America went to Wundagore, Miss America gave birth to twins, who died, and then Bova offered Magda's twins to Whizzer, but the death of his wife made him run away.

It's not clear if Bova told Whizzer if the babies were someone else's children or not, but considering that in Avengers#186, she only points out that he ran away because of the death of his wife, she probably didn't tell him.

Now, Uncanny Avengers#4 vol 2, High Evolutionary says he kidnapped Django's and Marya's children, made some experiments on them, considered them a failure and dumped them back to the family he stole them from.

How do Miss America and Magda fit into this? Who cares? At this point Marvel certainly doesn't.

Now, Scarlet Witch vol 2#11 reveals that Natalya gave birth to twins, and left them with Marya, and High Evolutionary wanted those twins, and eventually got them:

https://i.imgur.com/TIrpDrD.png

So, if we try to make a timeline out of this, Natalya gave birth, left her twins with Marya (Scarlet Witch#11 vol 2), High Evolutionary kidnapped them and made experiments on them (Uncanny Avengers#4 vol 2), then at some point during this, Magda shows up in Wundagore, gives birth to twins and leaves (Avengers#186), then, Miss American and Whizzer show up in Wundagore, she gives birth to twins, she dies and so do the twins (Giant Size Avengers#1 and Avengers#186, but with Avengers#186's retcons), then, after all of this gives Wanda and Pietro twins to Django and Maria (All versions), because the experiments he made on them were failures (Uncanny Avengers#4 vol 2).

The most blatant plot holes here are related to Magda, since she's not Pietro's and Wanda's mother anymore, then stuff like when Wanda was born there, from Magda, and a mysterious light shined when it happened, can't have happened, and the set of twins from Magda just, disappeared lol.

Also would be funny if Marvel remembers this detail, decides to say Magda's twins are alive somewhere, just so Magneto can have more children lol.

But, as y'all can see, it's very easy to follow :P.

Kinda funny that as bad as all of this is, it's not nearly as bad as Donna, and thankfully, unlike Donna, we don't get too much focus on Wanda's past, likely, or hopefully, she won't become Marvel's Donna.

[Phoenixx9]

The names Wanda and Pietro are exotic and something I could see Magda coming up with, since she herself has a rather unique name. I don't think Miss America had named her twins as she was bowled over by the radiation of the birth and only survived for a few hours afterwards.

So do we know where the names Wanda and Pietro came from? Any retcons with them? The Maximoffs named their twins Ana and Mateo.

Perhaps the High Evolutionary was the one who named the twins "Wanda" and "Pietro" based off of their real names (Ana and Mateo)?

[Lukmendes]

The names Wanda and Pietro are exotic and something I could see Magda coming up with, since she herself has a rather unique name. I don't think Miss America had named her twins as she was bowled over by the radiation of the birth and only survived for a few hours afterwards.

Originally in Giant Size Avengers#1, she died days afterwards , then Avengers#186 says she died moments after giving birth.

Avengers#186 makes no mention Magda chose the names herself, but she most likely did.

So do we know where the names Wanda and Pietro came from? Any retcons with them? The Maximoffs named their twins Ana and Mateo.

As far as I've researched, only Miss America is indicated to have named them, but Magda is also a possibility.

It's possible Natalya is the one who named them too, I've only speed read some chapters Scarlet Witch vol 2 so I'm not sure about most details yet.

Perhaps the High Evolutionary was the one who named the twins "Wanda" and "Pietro" based off of their real names (Ana and Mateo)?

Uncanny Avengers#4 vol 2 has him talking about Wanda and Pietro like they're just failed text subjects, I don't think he's the one who named them because I doubt he'd bother.

[Phoenixx9]

Originally in Giant Size Avengers#1, she died days afterwards , then Avengers#186 says she died moments after giving birth.

Avengers#186 makes no mention Magda chose the names herself, but she most likely did.



As far as I've researched, only Miss America is indicated to have named them, but Magda is also a possibility.

It's possible Natalya is the one who named them too, I've only speed read some chapters Scarlet Witch vol 2 so I'm not sure about most details yet.



Uncanny Avengers#4 vol 2 has him talking about Wanda and Pietro like they're just failed text subjects, I don't think he's the one who named them because I doubt he'd bother.

Thanks, Lukmendes. So, I guess the 58 year old mystery continues.....................

[CJStriker]

Best Lego Scarlet Witch
https://www.wkbn.com/reviews/br/toys...scarlet-witch/

The recent “Wandavision” show on Disney+ was a big success. It featured Wanda Maximoff, aka the Scarlet Witch, alongside her love interest, Vision. Scarlet Witch has grown in popularity, and her merchandising sales have risen, too. Lego is beginning to include her in its sets.

This is Excellent News, don’t think that Disney has not likely not notice this either! This shows the selling power that our Wanda now has, just like with the TPB’s early this year, but even more so now in Children’s Toys, especially LEGO. By not having Wanda Marketed enough before the popularity boom she has become to a rare item in toys and LEGOS Like a classic comic. This will not be lost on Disney likely and it will be especially big being female hero that is becoming this popular to likely push her for more and more mechanisms by Disney!

[GenericUsername]

Just checked it out and, when did Magneto even find her corpse to make a graveyard? And also how did her find it? Lol.

I think you already know the answer to that. They just never bothered to say, lol.

Poor Magda.

[Kurt Busiek]

If I were trying to reconcile all this mess, I'd just do it with a big simple Gordian knot-type solution.

Wanda is infused with chaos magic that can alter reality from small ways (the hex spheres) to big ways (no more mutants). As such, her personal history is chaotic and inconsistent.

Any time it changes, it's because she had a power flux that changed reality around her and Pietro's birth. And any time they want to change something back, damn, that was another power flux.

This would also explain why she remembered what happened to her kids and then suddenly never had. It could even explain why people could talk about and use chaos magic and then be unaware it even exists.

It's chaos magic. It's inherently chaotic, and it has side effects.

A story could even be built around it where she's fluxing for some reason, and has to learn how to get control of it.

But it's chaos magic -- asking it to be consistent is like asking the Joker to be sane.

kdb

[Covetous_One]

If I were trying to reconcile all this mess, I'd just do it with a big simple Gordian knot-type solution.

Wanda is infused with chaos magic that can alter reality from small ways (the hex spheres) to big ways (no more mutants). As such, her personal history is chaotic and inconsistent.

Any time it changes, it's because she had a power flux that changed reality around her and Pietro's birth. And any time they want to change something back, damn, that was another power flux.

This would also explain why she remembered what happened to her kids and then suddenly never had. It could even explain why people could talk about and use chaos magic and then be unaware it even exists.

It's chaos magic. It's inherently chaotic, and it has side effects.

A story could even be built around it where she's fluxing for some reason, and has to learn how to get control of it.

But it's chaos magic -- asking it to be consistent is like asking the Joker to be sane.

kdb

If Wanda does have a solo coming soon I would love for you to be the main writer or editor just cause your ideas would both safe guard and feel like an acknowledgment to Wanda’s complex history

[Lukmendes]

I think you already know the answer to that. They just never bothered to say, lol.

Poor Magda.

Figures lol.

If I were trying to reconcile all this mess, I'd just do it with a big simple Gordian knot-type solution.

Wanda is infused with chaos magic that can alter reality from small ways (the hex spheres) to big ways (no more mutants). As such, her personal history is chaotic and inconsistent.

Any time it changes, it's because she had a power flux that changed reality around her and Pietro's birth. And any time they want to change something back, damn, that was another power flux.

This would also explain why she remembered what happened to her kids and then suddenly never had. It could even explain why people could talk about and use chaos magic and then be unaware it even exists.

It's chaos magic. It's inherently chaotic, and it has side effects.

A story could even be built around it where she's fluxing for some reason, and has to learn how to get control of it.

But it's chaos magic -- asking it to be consistent is like asking the Joker to be sane.

kdb

I think Darker Than Scarlet has Wanda saying that her hex actively changes the past for a specific outcome to happen, so yeah, chaos magic doing something like that to change her own past would make sense too.

But uh, what about Life Force? That **** was made to explain why Wanda is suddenly powerful enough to make Decimation happen to begin with, and for something else to be blamed for it too, would that go out of the picture to say the whole thing is chaos magic related?

Granted, Wanda being the one at fault for Decimation is less bad now that she fixed it, but, y'know, maybe we shouldn't go there so soon after ToM.

Also think it's worth pointing out that, if a story were to be made to reconcile the nonsense of her past, maybe it shouldn't focus only on that and put emphasis on the "now" too, specially with Chthon being within her, 'cause that has interesting story potential, 'cause like I said before, focusing too much on the past can stop actual development, and we wouldn't want Wanda to become basically Marvel's version of Donna, she has her own "Continuity Snarl" page on TV tropes 'cause she's that messy lol.

[gurkle]

Every superhero character sort of defaults to the same story over and over, and with Wanda it's not knowing how to control her powers, right from her very first appearance. The idea that she doesn't quite know how her powers work, or even what her powers are, keeps coming up again and again. One writer tries to give her more control, but then things happen under other writers that can only be reconciled by her not fully understanding what her powers were capable of.

One thing I would like to see if she gets another solo, and a missed opportunity in Robinson's series, is really getting to see her learn how to control her powers and testing out what they can and can't do. This could never happen in Avengers stories because there's never enough panel time, so Englehart and Busiek had to largely leave her training and study off-panel. (Never mind the MCU where we got to see all of 30 seconds of her studying and then she immediately moves on to someone else's story.) But if we could watch her learning -- in the field, I mean, not reading books -- then we might be able to believe she's an expert on the use of her powers; some writers try to say she is, but since her powers are so completely inconsistent, it's a case of "tell don't show."

[MaximoffTrash]

If I were trying to reconcile all this mess, I'd just do it with a big simple Gordian knot-type solution.

Wanda is infused with chaos magic that can alter reality from small ways (the hex spheres) to big ways (no more mutants). As such, her personal history is chaotic and inconsistent.

Any time it changes, it's because she had a power flux that changed reality around her and Pietro's birth. And any time they want to change something back, damn, that was another power flux.

This would also explain why she remembered what happened to her kids and then suddenly never had. It could even explain why people could talk about and use chaos magic and then be unaware it even exists.

It's chaos magic. It's inherently chaotic, and it has side effects.

A story could even be built around it where she's fluxing for some reason, and has to learn how to get control of it.

But it's chaos magic -- asking it to be consistent is like asking the Joker to be sane.

kdb

Might as well call it Schrödinger's magic since it makes everyone and everything involved kinda there and not there.

[MaximoffTrash]

Figures lol.



I think Darker Than Scarlet has Wanda saying that her hex actively changes the past for a specific outcome to happen, so yeah, chaos magic doing something like that to change her own past would make sense too.

But uh, what about Life Force? That **** was made to explain why Wanda is suddenly powerful enough to make Decimation happen to begin with, and for something else to be blamed for it too, would that go out of the picture to say the whole thing is chaos magic related?

Granted, Wanda being the one at fault for Decimation is less bad now that she fixed it, but, y'know, maybe we shouldn't go there so soon after ToM.

Also think it's worth pointing out that, if a story were to be made to reconcile the nonsense of her past, maybe it shouldn't focus only on that and put emphasis on the "now" too, specially with Chthon being within her, 'cause that has interesting story potential, 'cause like I said before, focusing too much on the past can stop actual development, and we wouldn't want Wanda to become basically Marvel's version of Donna, she has her own "Continuity Snarl" page on TV tropes 'cause she's that messy lol.

I always though Life Force is just meant as a massive power source. A giant battery like Twilight Sword at the start of the Busiek run.