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  1. #4261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relugus View Post
    One of my fears is her solo project will end up being a glorified vehicle for Young Avengers making her entire story revolve around her kids. I want her solo to be a story where she actually gets to be heroic and that is her and Agatha doing witchy stuff, learning about Chthon, how he has manipulated her life etc, fighting the likes of Baba Yaga, travelling the Witch's Road, maybe meeting Hecate in a cafe, maybe having an N'Garai friend. Make it scary and creepy but also make it fun and have some joy to it, show witchcraft as something that gives Wanda's life meaning.

    One thing that might be cool is in House of Harkness, we see Evanora Harkness in Sokovia, and we see one of Wanda's ancestors as a leader of a coven fighting Chthon. I think they might deepen Agatha's connection to Wanda with something like that.
    I don't mind seeing more of Darkhold's history.
    I always think Morgan Le Fay would make a great cautious villain, after all she is the one who pulled the plug on Chthon.
    She can be one of those "observe in the shadows" type of villain who learns from others' mistakes in an attempt to safely harness Darkhold's power (for her own purpose of course).

    Morgan can even replace Darkhold Dwarf as the person who hand out Darkhold/Darkhold pages to people, she doesn't exactly serve Chthon, she just want other people(especially magic users) as lab rats.

  2. #4262
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    I was just kidding!
    ****, I totally thought you were being sincere. Sorry dude!

  3. #4263
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    To be fair it's hard to do a second season of WandaVision because of the premise and obviously anoucing a different solo project would take away from the ending of a movie that was just released. It would be like a reverse Black Widow.

    We might get hints in other movies and Agatha to see where it's going.




    You seem to be deeply into this topic but I understand why not everybody thinks the same way. Why would writers base their own work on something someone else did at some point? Sure most of the typical fantasy things that we take for given nowadays are based on the work of Tolkien but besides that it's crickets and there is nothing wrong with that. It's a creative work and therefore people should have full control of their work and not necessarily adhere to rules others have made up. Just look at Harry Potter which couldn't be further removed from the Vancian magic system and yet still was an enormous success.

    Also the thing that Agatha said about fixing the spell was a lie in order to convince Wanda to give up her powers willingly. Later when thinks she has won she lets it slip that a cast spell cannot be changed.
    I understand what you're saying. I just think it would be better if magic in the MCU has some rules in it in order to create tension and drama. The Harry Potter franchise WAS really successful in its prime, but I don't think a lot of folks are satisfied with what's happening with it now. The magic definitely had too many inconsistencies in it in the last couple of the Potter films and frankly the retcons and the introduction of too many characters hurt them too. And they didn't that many sequels to tell their stories either. I do believe fans understand this on some level even if they're not really "aware" of it. I don't want the MCU's magical corner to suffer the same fate. I think "power creep" is happening with Wanda and Strange, and I would ground their powers with costs and limitations. I think it would be unwise for Disney to use magic as deus ex machinas in its Marvel movies and shows.

    I wonder if Agatha might not have been totally truthful about the spell. There's a lot we don't know about Chaos magic. We still don't know a lot about it. Maybe Wanda will "learn" how to fix the mistakes she made in Westview. I thought WandaVision didn't do a thorough job of exploring of Agatha's motivations. Like why did she want Wanda's powers so badly? Were they like energon cubes for her? They should have focused a little bit more on Wanda's and Agatha's relationship:

    Hahn stated that Agatha/Wanda had a Salieri/Mozart kind of relationship:

    “There’s something I loved between the relationship of Agatha and Wanda,” she said. “We [Hahn and Shakman] talked a lot about Amadeus and Salieri, in terms of their relationship — Agatha wishes that she could make the kind of music that the Scarlet Witch just had naturally. For someone that has spent centuries studying this, to meet a young person to whom it comes completely naturally, it’s maddening and you want to know why.” The dynamic that our director [Matt Shakman] kind of put in our head was like [Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Antonio Salieri]. Which I don’t know if you guys know that reference but Amadeus is a great movie from back in the day. And that’s kind of what our relationship was. Like, I wanted her power, but I also wanted to befriend her, I wanted to teach her, I wanted to learn from her, I wanted…all of it."

    Now most people on this thread I assume probably have NOT seen Amadeus, but I did when I was in music class decades ago. The movie was very entertaining, but I hated it how it did Salieri dirty. Agatha (Salieri) was the more experienced magic user, but recognized and was envious of Wanda's (Mozart's) natural talent. I assume Agatha (Salieri) was trying to manipulate Wanda (Mozart) for her own ends, but we still don't know why. I imagine this will be covered in Harkness's series. I think a Salieri/Mozart relationship between Agatha/Wanda is much more interesting than their relationship in the comic books if I'm being honest.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 05-26-2022 at 07:22 AM.

  4. #4264
    Extraordinary Member Witchfan's Avatar
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    Doctor Strange Vs Scarlet Witch: Who Wins?
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opini...BingNewsSearch

  5. #4265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Doctor Strange Vs Scarlet Witch: Who Wins?
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opini...BingNewsSearch
    I stlll can't believe they didn't give us any kind of real Doctor Strange vs. Scarlet Witch fight and instead had Strange and Wong standing around doing nothing while she attacks a bunch of extras.

    Even if you wanted villain Wanda, you didn't get what you wanted to see.

  6. #4266
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I stlll can't believe they didn't give us any kind of real Doctor Strange vs. Scarlet Witch fight and instead had Strange and Wong standing around doing nothing while she attacks a bunch of extras.

    Even if you wanted villain Wanda, you didn't get what you wanted to see.
    Wow, that sounds like a colossal waste.

  7. #4267
    ᱬ Master Of Chaos ᱬ Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I stlll can't believe they didn't give us any kind of real Doctor Strange vs. Scarlet Witch fight and instead had Strange and Wong standing around doing nothing while she attacks a bunch of extras.

    Even if you wanted villain Wanda, you didn't get what you wanted to see.
    I totally blame Raimi for that, fight scenes didn't give what we thought it would, even The Russo brothers did more with Strange against Thanos.

    And it's a shame cause i liked the action in spiderman 2 by Raimi.

  8. #4268
    Spectacular Member Ibara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I stlll can't believe they didn't give us any kind of real Doctor Strange vs. Scarlet Witch fight and instead had Strange and Wong standing around doing nothing while she attacks a bunch of extras.

    Even if you wanted villain Wanda, you didn't get what you wanted to see.
    Had the displeasure of being dragged to see this movie for a second time and it actually... still doesn't hold up. This was a gripe for me as well. Strange and Wong standing around as the SW attacks, Captain Carter and Marvel standing around as Reed is spaghettied. Much of the action felt subpar. I'd talk about the Illuminati, America and MacGuffins, Christine, Wong, but I think it's clear that the characters done the greatest disservice were Wanda and Stephen.

    I still don't mind the SW being a villain, but the lack of progression towards it and the weak motivations to keep Strange untarnished just made the film fall flat. Making Stephen an effective foil to Wanda would have carried much more impact than just having him meander through his own film. They could have explored how the blip, a result of Stephen enacting his plan to save lives, still required sacrifice - lives lost, societies overturned, trauma wrought as chaos rushed in to fill the vacuum of a universe halved. But we get one scene played for laughs because a guy lost his cats. Stephen carries the psychological and emotional burden of being the man with the plan, making the decision to turn over the stone as the 1 way to save half of the universe, but still shaping the universe-spanning damage resulting in the aftermath. He likely saved the most lives possible, but he pulled that lever, made that choice - how does he grapple with that now.

    Then follow through on the very clear plot-point established at the end of WandaVision. You know the one scene Waldron and Raimi watched - the Scarlet Witch has opened the Darkhold AND hears the cries of her children needing her help. She dreams through the multiverse of life and love, taken and sacrificed. She sees her other selves living idyllic lives she cannot have and also of worlds in chaos with the lives of her children under threat. Endless happiness, endless pain - she needs to save her boys, all of them. She's willing to make horrifying sacrifices in an effort to get what she wants, it's still a selfish endeavor, but it mirrors the rationale Strange made in handing over the stone. She can save countless lives by taking one. How is she in the wrong - a compelling movie would have you beg that question. Instead we get monster-movie SW, she rampages, she's clearly wrong, we see her as an unstoppable force, but any critical evaluation requires you to almost entirely rely on emotion/instinct, and strip her of any reason and that just digs itself so much deeper into problematic trope territory.

    Don't get me wrong. Like the movie if you like it, but this script was weak. I honestly think that everything people are raving about comes entirely from Elizabeth Olsen's performance. It's a film carried by its actors and their charisma. Give her a movie, keep Raimi and Waldron away from it.

  9. #4269
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    Well, Wanda's dreamwalking of seeing her other variants' happy life is almost like "A Study in Scarlet", except ASiS is about her learning she is not doomed, she had a chance for happiness, probability is all her asks for. While in MoM she is just thirsty after her AU kids who are perfect fine on their own lol.

    She didn't get a reasonable motivation, and she didn't even get to be the cool type of villain. Just a bloody waste. And her narrative protection from being permanently damaged is "Darkhold did this" and some cheap lip service lines about double standards lol.

  10. #4270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibara View Post
    Had the displeasure of being dragged to see this movie for a second time and it actually... still doesn't hold up. This was a gripe for me as well. Strange and Wong standing around as the SW attacks, Captain Carter and Marvel standing around as Reed is spaghettied. Much of the action felt subpar. I'd talk about the Illuminati, America and MacGuffins, Christine, Wong, but I think it's clear that the characters done the greatest disservice were Wanda and Stephen.

    I still don't mind the SW being a villain, but the lack of progression towards it and the weak motivations to keep Strange untarnished just made the film fall flat. Making Stephen an effective foil to Wanda would have carried much more impact than just having him meander through his own film. They could have explored how the blip, a result of Stephen enacting his plan to save lives, still required sacrifice - lives lost, societies overturned, trauma wrought as chaos rushed in to fill the vacuum of a universe halved. But we get one scene played for laughs because a guy lost his cats. Stephen carries the psychological and emotional burden of being the man with the plan, making the decision to turn over the stone as the 1 way to save half of the universe, but still shaping the universe-spanning damage resulting in the aftermath. He likely saved the most lives possible, but he pulled that lever, made that choice - how does he grapple with that now.

    Then follow through on the very clear plot-point established at the end of WandaVision. You know the one scene Waldron and Raimi watched - the Scarlet Witch has opened the Darkhold AND hears the cries of her children needing her help. She dreams through the multiverse of life and love, taken and sacrificed. She sees her other selves living idyllic lives she cannot have and also of worlds in chaos with the lives of her children under threat. Endless happiness, endless pain - she needs to save her boys, all of them. She's willing to make horrifying sacrifices in an effort to get what she wants, it's still a selfish endeavor, but it mirrors the rationale Strange made in handing over the stone. She can save countless lives by taking one. How is she in the wrong - a compelling movie would have you beg that question. Instead we get monster-movie SW, she rampages, she's clearly wrong, we see her as an unstoppable force, but any critical evaluation requires you to almost entirely rely on emotion/instinct, and strip her of any reason and that just digs itself so much deeper into problematic trope territory.

    Don't get me wrong. Like the movie if you like it, but this script was weak. I honestly think that everything people are raving about comes entirely from Elizabeth Olsen's performance. It's a film carried by its actors and their charisma. Give her a movie, keep Raimi and Waldron away from it.
    Yeah it's definitely the actors that save this movie. Otherwise it'd be just a wash.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  11. #4271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibara View Post
    Don't get me wrong. Like the movie if you like it, but this script was weak. I honestly think that everything people are raving about comes entirely from Elizabeth Olsen's performance. It's a film carried by its actors and their charisma. Give her a movie, keep Raimi and Waldron away from it.
    Thankfully even the positive reviews don't claim the script is good. Or that the characters are well served, not just Wanda. (Ironically some critics took more notice of other characters being badly served, because Wanda's change is so huge it sort of feels like "character development" if you didn't watch WandaVision or misinterpreted it. While anyone can tell that Strange, Wong, Christine and Chavez have very undercooked roles.) I guess that's the best Wanda fans can hope for from this disaster; it would almost be worse if the script actually made a good case for her turning evil.

    But even if the writer hadn't admitted that this story was thrown together during the 2020 COVID lockdown (I believe him when he says Feige already had the idea of Wanda going bad, but the idea of her being bad for the entire movie was something Raimi and Waldron came up with) we could probably guess that there wasn't much time to think out character arcs or even plan out interesting fights.
    Last edited by gurkle; 05-26-2022 at 06:38 PM.

  12. #4272
    Astonishing Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    ****, I totally thought you were being sincere. Sorry dude!
    No problem!
    “The Avengers have been the one point of stability in my entire life. And if The Avengers call… then The Scarlet Witch will always answer.”

  13. #4273
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    That didn't long..she's back...2024 solo movie
    https://twitter.com/DiscuusingFiIm/s...InI79urLA&s=19

  14. #4274
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I stlll can't believe they didn't give us any kind of real Doctor Strange vs. Scarlet Witch fight and instead had Strange and Wong standing around doing nothing while she attacks a bunch of extras.

    Even if you wanted villain Wanda, you didn't get what you wanted to see.
    That's a unique take...she absolutely humiliated and punked out Strange and Wong bad..attacked all the sorcerers at once and he was forced to run to different dimensions....it was basically like Onslaught against all the earth heroes.

  15. #4275
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky99 View Post
    That didn't long..she's back...2024 solo movie
    https://twitter.com/DiscuusingFiIm/s...InI79urLA&s=19
    That's a fake account. Look at the account name more closely.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

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