"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[Albert1981]

It's entirely why I didn't want the fan service to begin with. People are already requesting that same thing for Secret Wars too. Even though that incursions story didn't have a bevy of heroes from other universes in it. But I fully expect Marvel to turn it into that at fan request and it to be the same mess.

Gonna have to look up Secret Wars. I'm assuming it's not the Battleworld stuff from the 80s because I don't think that story involved multiverses. When I first heard about the Illuminati recently, I immediately thought InfoWars would somehow be involved in the MoM. What a strange name for a group. I guess I'm not that interested in seeing actors/actresses play different versions of the same characters. I don't know why that is appealing to so many MCU fans. I feel Disney/Marvel is appealing too much to the "nerd/geek" community. Like who really cares about the difference between alternative realities and alternative timelines? Marvel Studios does:

https://bleedingcool.com/tv/loki-syl...ess-in-motion/

Marvel's television shows on Disney Plus have been pretty successful thus far and I just get this bad feeling it's due for a flop on there. In MY opinion, the MCU's Phase 4 movies haven't been that great (except for that last Spider-Man movie apparently). I'm just sad Wanda co-starred in such a polarizing movie.

[GenericUsername]

Gonna have look up what Secret Wars. I'm assuming it's not the Battleworld stuff from the 80s because I don't think that story involved multiverses. When I first heard about the Illuminati recently, I immediately thought InfoWars would somehow be involved in the MoM. What a strange name for a group. I guess I'm not that interested in seeing actors/actresses play different versions of the same characters. I don't know why that is appealing to so many MCU fans. I feel Disney/Marvel is appealing too much to the "nerd/geek" community. Like who really cares about the difference between alternative realities and alternative timelines? Marvel Studios does:

https://bleedingcool.com/tv/loki-syl...ess-in-motion/

Marvel's television shows on Disney Plus have been pretty successful thus far and I just get this bad feeling it's due for a flop on there. In MY opinion, the MCU's Phase 4 movies haven't been that great (except for that last Spider-Man movie apparently). I'm just sad Wanda co-starred in such a polarizing movie.

It's based very loosely so far on the concept that lead in to the 2015 version of Secret Wars with the Incursions. That ended up being mostly a story about Reed and Doom. It's wild how some of these events get warped in the eyes of the public, because this is seen as away of bringing in more fan service. They wanted AD/HoM for Wanda to bring in more characters, when she wasn't even present in AD until the end and HoM was mostly a story about Wolverine. Fans don't know what these events were, Marvel Studios doesn't either... or at least doesn't mind turning it into these every whim granted sort of stories that really just troll people.

Disney/Marvel is not appealing too much to nerds/geeks. They are mostly answering to what the general public wants based on what they know or were told about comics. They don't seem to know what these stories were actually about. Marvel Studios is not gonna care as long as it keeps pouring in millions.

Phase 4 hasn't been that strong. I did enjoy Moon Knight though.

[Gnostic]

It's not the corruption nor a challenging arc. It's that it already happened with more depth and nuance than this cheesy movie. They even had Wanda reassured by her own self like she was with Monica. This was a far worse WV.

WandaVision wasn't really a corruption arc though. That means you become corrupted by the end of the story and that isn't what happened in the show.

It's based very loosely so far on the concept that lead in to the 2015 version of Secret Wars with the Incursions. That ended up being mostly a story about Reed and Doom. It's wild how some of these events get warped in the eyes of the public, because this is seen as away of bringing in more fan service. They wanted AD/HoM for Wanda to bring in more characters, when she wasn't even present in AD until the end and HoM was mostly a story about Wolverine. Fans don't know what these events were, Marvel Studios doesn't either... or at least doesn't mind turning it into these every whim granted sort of stories that really just troll people.

Disney/Marvel is not appealing too much to nerds/geeks. They are mostly answering to what the general public wants based on what they know or were told about comics. They don't seem to know what these stories were actually about. Marvel Studios is not gonna care as long as it keeps pouring in millions.

Phase 4 hasn't been that strong. I did enjoy Moon Knight though.

That reminds me of how most people seem to believe that the Dark Phoenix Saga is about Jean being a villain for the X-Men to fight.

[gurkle]

WandaVision wasn't really a corruption arc though. That means you become corrupted by the end of the story and that isn't what happened in the show.

Yeah, Michael Waldron said that when he took over the original plan was for Wanda to help Strange at first and gradually become corrupted. That would be an actual corruption arc. Instead they chose to have everything take place offscreen, and when people defend it they point to the last 30 seconds of "WandaVision." It's hard explaining sometimes that just because there's a reason given for something (the evil book) doesn't matter if the story doesn't "prove" it by showing how it happened.

I think I said this before, but the original plan might actually have been worse for Wanda in the long run -- this way, no one can take her seriously as a villain because she's just suddenly a different person for no reason, and then goes right back to normal at the end -- but it would have been a much better story. All the problems with the story beyond Wanda, like the fact that Strange barely has an arc in his own movie, come from the decision to just have Wanda chase America Chavez for two hours until she suddenly stops.

[Witchfan]

Scarlet Witch Fulfills Hulk's Original MCU Arc in Doctor Strange 2
https://www.cbr.com/doctor-strange-2...itch-hulk-mcu/

[Gnostic]

Yeah, Michael Waldron said that when he took over the original plan was for Wanda to help Strange at first and gradually become corrupted. That would be an actual corruption arc. Instead they chose to have everything take place offscreen, and when people defend it they point to the last 30 seconds of "WandaVision." It's hard explaining sometimes that just because there's a reason given for something (the evil book) doesn't matter if the story doesn't "prove" it by showing how it happened.

I think I said this before, but the original plan might actually have been worse for Wanda in the long run -- this way, no one can take her seriously as a villain because she's just suddenly a different person for no reason, and then goes right back to normal at the end -- but it would have been a much better story. All the problems with the story beyond Wanda, like the fact that Strange barely has an arc in his own movie, come from the decision to just have Wanda chase America Chavez for two hours until she suddenly stops.

Can you show me a link to this?

[gurkle]

I mean, it's an interesting point, especially since people have pointed out that Wanda at the end of "WandaVision" is very similar to the way MCU Bruce Banner was isolating.

But we all know they would never have seriously considered making the Hulk the villain, which is why it's only a theory from a director who was never invited back. They'd never do it to a male character, and even to most female characters who aren't named Wanda Maximoff. She's... unique.

[gurkle]

Can you show me a link to this?

Waldron talks about it here.

Sam and I came on in February of 2020. And initially, we were inheriting what the prior administration had been doing. And then COVID happened and our start date pushed six months. So he and I had the opportunity to essentially start over and say, “What do we want this movie to be?” And the foundational building block of starting over was Wanda should be the villain the whole way through. This should be a story of Doctor Strange protecting America Chavez from Wanda...

I even did an earlier draft where she was more a member of the ensemble and turned bad by the end. And it always felt to me like it was just hedging. There was never a way to service her fall from grace properly as a supporting character in the movie because there had to be a separate antagonist. And it also felt like we were leaving the biggest bit of fun on the table for somebody else.

In a different interview he said the plan was always for Wanda to go bad, even before he came on the movie, and "the question just became, when would it happen? Certainly, there was a version of this movie where Wanda was part of the ensemble that ended, I guess, with her turning bad, and then she could have been an antagonist of another movie."

I absolutely believe that Wanda turning bad was Feige's thing, given his obsession with 2000s comics (or as Waldron calls them, "the comics"). I guess I can feel relieved that she got the show to at least convince some of the audience that this was a stupid idea.

The idea that Wanda was ready to go bad after WandaVision is just Waldron using the Darkhold as an all-purpose excuse for this sudden character turn. Like I said, it's probably not as harmful to the character as an actual convincing villain arc, but it's really bad storytelling.

[GenericUsername]

WandaVision wasn't really a corruption arc though. That means you become corrupted by the end of the story and that isn't what happened in the show.



That reminds me of how most people seem to believe that the Dark Phoenix Saga is about Jean being a villain for the X-Men to fight.

Kind of. It's basically her powers taking over. It's just Jac was more careful about the depiction to make sure Wanda still had some agency.

[Witchfan]

Scott Blair
FS0tbhIXEAEeDZ7.jpg

[Gnostic]

There was never a way to service her fall from grace properly as a supporting character in the movie because there had to be a separate antagonist. And it also felt like we were leaving the biggest bit of fun on the table for somebody else.

Did he not see The Dark Knight? Harvey Dent was a supporting character and his corruption arc was done well.

[GenericUsername]

Did he not see The Dark Knight? Harvey Dent was supporting character and his corruption arc was done well.

Yeah, exactly. There are nuanced approaches out there. It definitely can be done.

[Albert1981]

It's based very loosely so far on the concept that lead in to the 2015 version of Secret Wars with the Incursions. That ended up being mostly a story about Reed and Doom. It's wild how some of these events get warped in the eyes of the public, because this is seen as away of bringing in more fan service. They wanted AD/HoM for Wanda to bring in more characters, when she wasn't even present in AD until the end and HoM was mostly a story about Wolverine. Fans don't know what these events were, Marvel Studios doesn't either... or at least doesn't mind turning it into these every whim granted sort of stories that really just troll people.

Disney/Marvel is not appealing too much to nerds/geeks. They are mostly answering to what the general public wants based on what they know or were told about comics. They don't seem to know what these stories were actually about. Marvel Studios is not gonna care as long as it keeps pouring in millions.

Phase 4 hasn't been that strong. I did enjoy Moon Knight though.

Thanks for the response. I agree with your comment about nerds/geeks. Disney/Marvel is appealing to a bigger audience than that. I do think MCU "fans" and general audiences are slightly different though. And I believe those differences are showing themselves by the big second-week drop offs in some of these MCU offerings. I don't mind the trolling. It can be funny sometimes. But I think the MCU has been getting a bit "cute" lately by playing with audience expectations. Wanda does NOT need to introduce more characters. Haven't we got enough already? The MCU should focus on the ones that are ALREADY there.

[GenericUsername]

Thanks for the response. I agree with your comment about nerds/geeks. Disney/Marvel is appealing to a bigger audience than that. I do think MCU "fans" and general audiences are slightly different though. And I believe those differences are showing themselves by the big second-week drop offs in some of these MCU offerings. I don't mind the trolling. It can be funny sometimes. But I think the MCU has been getting a bit "cute" lately by playing with audience expectations. Wanda does NOT need to introduce more characters. Haven't we got enough already? The MCU should focus on the ones that are ALREADY there.

I think it's a few things going on here. The movie didn't live up to expectations, the movie has too many horror elements for some families, so less people are gonna go and some areas still are seeing Covid surges.

[jmc247]

Gonna have look up what Secret Wars. I'm assuming it's not the Battleworld stuff from the 80s because I don't think that story involved multiverses.

In 2015 it was incursions as one universe smashed into and fought another. The only Wanda related stuff I can remember from it was in Secret Wars House of M and I think a MODOK story.