"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[MaximoffTrash]

In the end it won't matter tho- it will be undone like with Jean murdering an entire planet. Phoenix wasn't really her is how it was retconned and Wanda dies in the end of MoM and pretty sure she is be replaced somehow with other Wanda in Mom who will retain her memories and won't make the same mistakes. Betting totally that happens which also resolves the boys being in Young Avengers and somehow that universe will have an incursion and she will end up on this universe with no memories and they boys will come her seeking her out. It will be handled just like Jean with a twist. That damn dark phoenix storyline was the precursor for all this crap and totally wish it'd never happened and male writers who can't handle their own freakin insecurities and inability to cope with powerful women would stay away from comics and writing in general. Its a symptom of what's happening in the world atm. So sick of guys worried about their masculinity and performance issues that they have to take women down, start wars and hunt rare, endangered and wild animals just trying to survive in this world etc....that's where the 'No More" would be actually productive for the earth.

It will still waste her goddamn precious time.
I would rather not see her next appearance moping around and feeling sorry for the things she was made to do because of one hackjob writer.
Because frankly I am impatient and want to see actually good shit, which is why I don't even want her in YA projects(would be fine if MoM is not a thing).

I would really love a mockery/shade-throwing story for her next appearance.

[gurkle]

Her kids didnt die bc they were never real.

That's not even how the show portrayed them. They made a big point of the fact that Wanda's power is spontaneous creation and everything she created was real. Vision even calls himself "a memory made real" and Wanda mentions that she created his physical body, and we're shown repeatedly that they have free will and are not just extensions of Wanda. The show would not have worked if they had been fake.

The movie says they weren't real, but like much else in the movie it doesn't match up with how things were portrayed in the show. Different teams have different ideas; it happens all the time.

[MaximoffTrash]

Her kids didnt die bc they were never real. Had she understood that, maybe she wouldnt have been so fixated on them. Thats why I said she wasnt healed at the end of WV and really needed to take some some to process what happened, grieve her loss and work on moving on as a stronger person. Jumping into messing with the Darkhold right after her loss without taking the proper time to heal was a recipe for disaster as we saw in this film

Again, they are independent and sapient beings, so they are real(it's the same in Englehart's iteration of the kids), we are talking about superheroes in a fantasy land. If super AIs are considered people with personhood, then Wanda's kids are real beings with personhood.

It's the reductive framing of MoM/(also Byrne in comics) that try to frame the kids as fake as a way to invalidate her journey and in a way dehumanize her character.
That is just another layer of why I fucking hate MoM.

She read Darkhold because she made the promise to understand her power so this whole damn thing won't happen again. It's literally said before she left WestView.
So much uncharitable framng and reading here, sure, not the viewer's fault because the show/movie barely gave her narrative favor.
But please don't deny every effort/goodness this character has. Also it won't even matter if she has healed and then read Darkhold judging from the way Darkhold work in MoM which is basically food poisoning.

So really, it again boils down to invalidate everything this character does and is about, and feel the need to give her some narrative punishment.

[Havok83]

That's not even how the show portrayed them. They made a big point of the fact that Wanda's power is spontaneous creation and everything she created was real. Vision even calls himself "a memory made real" and Wanda mentions that she created his physical body, and we're shown repeatedly that they have free will and are not just extensions of Wanda. The show would not have worked if they had been fake.

The movie says they weren't real, but like much else in the movie it doesn't match up with how things were portrayed in the show. Different teams have different ideas; it happens all the time.

They werent real. They were beings that she created with power that went away once her hex went away. Lets say IA that they are real though. That doesnt change my actual point in that Wanda needed to do some healing before getting mixxed up with the Darkhold. She never healed before DS2

[MaximoffTrash]

That's not even how the show portrayed them. They made a big point of the fact that Wanda's power is spontaneous creation and everything she created was real. Vision even calls himself "a memory made real" and Wanda mentions that she created his physical body, and we're shown repeatedly that they have free will and are not just extensions of Wanda. The show would not have worked if they had been fake.

The movie says they weren't real, but like much else in the movie it doesn't match up with how things were portrayed in the show. Different teams have different ideas; it happens all the time.

They don't even explain why AU Wanda's kids are real, because Wanda banged a real man to have real kids I guess.

[MaximoffTrash]

They werent real. They were beings that she created with power that went away once her hex went away. Lets say IA that they are real though. That doesnt change my actual point in that Wanda needed to do some healing before getting mixxed up with the Darkhold. She never healed before DS2

Humans are beings created from reproductive cells that die once they don't get enough nutrition. Are humans or any organic lifeforms not real then?
If a patient cannot leave a sanitized space due to severe immunity failure, is the patient less real?
The extra condition required to keep someone alive doesn't make said person not real.
People can understand the protagonist of that movie Free Guy as "real" (sapient AI) but not Wanda's kids?

Wanda not fully healed should not mean her going full psycho mode in DS2.
Her reading Darkhold also should not mean her going full psycho mode in DS2.(Agatha is one case, DS1 also didn't frame Ancient One as evil for using Dark Dimension energy, at worst she is a hypocrite.)
Also judging from the way Darkhold functions in DS2, it probably won't even matter if Wanda is healed or not.

So really, your argument needs bunch of reframing previous canon and logic jumps to justify her treatment in DS2.
And that is still ignoring the fact Wanda getting this kind of treatment in the first place.

[Frontier]

They werent real. They were beings that she created with power that went away once her hex went away. Lets say IA that they are real though. That doesnt change my actual point in that Wanda needed to do some healing before getting mixxed up with the Darkhold. She never healed before DS2

Which probably would have been more preferable, or at least a better transition story.

[MaximoffTrash]

Which probably would have been more preferable, or at least a better transition story.

As if she can that kind of resources lol.
Would be nice but I am tired of the excuses of her getting screwed over.

[MaximoffTrash]

At least this movie won't do that well at the box office so in the end sloppy work is not rewarded with success(by MCU standards).
I could take relief in that.
As for Wanda, either go for some meta 4th wall breaking shit or just find a corner to send her off.
With the way they are writing her, she shouldn't interact with the rest of Marvel ever again, especially around more important persons.

[GenericUsername]

Yep. MCU Wanda always had a darker side to her. Her powers make a practically a god among men and but she still she kept getting hammered by tragedy after tragedy and was shown to actually struggle with all of that. That's why she resonated with so many people.

She's like DCEU Superman

[GenericUsername]

They werent real. They were beings that she created with power that went away once her hex went away. Lets say IA that they are real though. That doesnt change my actual point in that Wanda needed to do some healing before getting mixxed up with the Darkhold. She never healed before DS2

There also needed to be some more build up of the Darkhold the Vishanti, Chthon. They just threw this all at the audience.

[GenericUsername]

Humans are beings created from reproductive cells that die once they don't get enough nutrition. Are humans or any organic lifeforms not real then?
If a patient cannot leave a sanitized space due to severe immunity failure, is the patient less real?
The extra condition required to keep someone alive doesn't make said person not real.
People can understand the protagonist of that movie Free Guy as "real" (sapient AI) but not Wanda's kids?

Wanda not fully healed should not mean her going full psycho mode in DS2.
Her reading Darkhold also should not mean her going full psycho mode in DS2.(Agatha is one case, DS1 also didn't frame Ancient One as evil for using Dark Dimension energy, at worst she is a hypocrite.)
Also judging from the way Darkhold functions in DS2, it probably won't even matter if Wanda is healed or not.

So really, your argument needs bunch of reframing previous canon and logic jumps to justify her treatment in DS2.
And that is still ignoring the fact Wanda getting this kind of treatment in the first place.

That's the thing I cannot stand the most is both in movies and comics before this, dark magic was used without someone becoming a psycho mass murderer.

[GenericUsername]

You know what would have been a better motivation for Wanda? She finds out who Billy and Tom's father is and tries to find the 616 version to impregnate her. It turns out that the father is no other than Simon Williams aka Wonder Man. However, he isn't ready to become a father and so the conflict is about William trying to escape Wanda!

It can be the first superhero horror-comedy about Wanda killing anybody that gets in between her and having Simon's children. Michael Waldron can excuse the premise by saying "Wanda did that in Darker Than Scarlet" just like how he tried use Avengers Disassembled as an excuse.

Somebody pitch this to Kevin Feige!/jk

No that would not be better. Gross!

First, the baby crazy thing is what makes part of this terrible. And Simon was also terrible. A woman's motivation does not need boiled down to having babies. And going psycho for that.

Simon and Wanda had an abusive relationship. And his whole keeping Vision from being restored was awful. Even if they didn't do that in the movies, it still has that mark all over it.

[GenericUsername]

Yes, she lied (including to herself). Then Agatha shows her that the people are in pain and she immediately resolves to let them go, even if it means letting her kids die.

This is so far removed from what she becomes at the start of the movie. It doesn't matter the in-universe explanation, because it's so out of character, and we never see how she changed so radically, so all that matters is that the writing is bad.

These characters aren't real, so bad writing doesn't count to the way we feel about them. It's the same with the comics; just because a writer had Wanda say "no more mutants" doesn't mean that's something Wanda would ever do. You wouldn't decide to hate your favorite character if some bad writer made them a villain for one story.

People forget that earlier she was convinced they weren't being hurt by any of it and was in the stage of denial.

[Gnostic]

No that would not be better. Gross!

First, the baby crazy thing is what makes part of this terrible. And Simon was also terrible. A woman's motivation does not need boiled down to having babies. And going psycho for that.

Simon and Wanda had an abusive relationship. And his whole keeping Vision from being restored was awful. Even if they didn't do that in the movies, it still has that mark all over it.

That was a joke.

"/JK" means "end joke".