"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[gurkle]

But what if I don't like characters who beat people on a whim, especially when the individual is incredibly powerful?
Edgy characters who react to minor insult with immediate violence felt cheap lot of times. It's the "above thou" ones that are more interesting to me.
And Wanda should definitely "play the hero", at the end of the day she is still a superhero character. I would say the opposite, leave those bombastic threat event to others and let her care for the small folks.

I would enjoy seeing the take-charge, no-nonsense Wanda who is fed up with being sad all the time and wants to actually grab some happiness for herself for once. Unfortunately we didn't see that in the movie, because she wasn't acting like herself and when she finally became herself again, she went right back to being sad and sacrificing herself to do the right thing.

Basically the "you break the rules..." line was a preview of a different story, it didn't have anything to do with this movie.

For now Agatha Harkness gets to be the fun anti-hero, and we'll see when Wanda comes back whether they let her progress beyond the sad woman who screws up all the time.

[CJStriker]

I would classify that as a good guy turned bad. Now if she will continue as an anti-hero or becomes good is unknown. I do hope for the former though. She can make up for what she did but that won't suddenly make her a saint. That is unbelievable and IMO pretty unsatisfactory. But then I prefer characters with an edge to them so your mileage may vary. Just don't turn her into a doormat just so you can claim she is "good". If you talk shit you should still get hit.
Let her deal with her own problems and leave playing the hero to the others. She will show up if the threat is big enough that it warrants her participation. Basically just like it is with Thor or Captain Marvel who spend most of their time not even on Earth.

But what if I don't like characters who beat people on a whim, especially when the individual is incredibly powerful?
Edgy characters who react to minor insult with immediate violence felt cheap lot of times. It's the "above thou" ones that are more interesting to me.
And Wanda should definitely "play the hero", at the end of the day she is still a superhero character. I would say the opposite, leave those bombastic threat event to others and let her care for the small folks.

I would enjoy seeing the take-charge, no-nonsense Wanda who is fed up with being sad all the time and wants to actually grab some happiness for herself for once. Unfortunately we didn't see that in the movie, because she wasn't acting like herself and when she finally became herself again, she went right back to being sad and sacrificing herself to do the right thing.

Basically the "you break the rules..." line was a preview of a different story, it didn't have anything to do with this movie.

For now Agatha Harkness gets to be the fun anti-hero, and we'll see when Wanda comes back whether they let her progress beyond the sad woman who screws up all the time.

I Agree that Wanda should not be a doormate, I don't mind her talking the high ground and even if the MCU goes full it was the Darkhold and Chltons faut not hers, I always like a Wanda that still takes a form of ownership to realize what happen, become stronger threw it and train to become the Scarlet Witch she chooses not what the Darkhold said.

Honestly it is easier for Wanda to comeback then it seems, they already have it set up with how MoM ended and with the word of deleted scenes of more Chlton being responsible, this could and IMO should lead to a new Scarlet Witch Project, a Solo Movie or Show where she confronts and starts to deal with her relationship with Chltons, her Major Place in the MCU Multiverse as a Nexus being and no matter she is a pivotal parts of the MCU like she is in the comics and what responsibilities that entails with Wanda growing from there.

That is just a rough-draft though, but my idea spawns from there.

[CJStriker]

Her being a villain is never a good thing because her character suffers for it. Happened in comics, and she's killed off (at least for now) in the movies. It just doesn't work out. And it misses the point of the character. Her thing was perseverance through struggle. They then decide to have her succumb to it instead.

She's just not afforded the same treatment as other heroes gone bad.

With that the MCU, the Lead Writer and Fiege are getting themselves pulled through the mud to a degree like they should for doing so, especially after the reveal that they took little to no story from WandaVision, that seems to have made most people the most critical of them.

Taking an Award-Winning show and saying to what was its sequel MoM that they did not take consideration in using it enough especially by Fiege is just plan “WHAT the Heck where they Think!?” Moment.

Now I know the movie already started filming once WandaVision was done filming, but consideration should have been and given to MoM to avoid the mess they are clearly made themselves in right now.

I think fans at the very least, while I don’t agree with it happening and keeps me from seeing MoM the most, still had fun seeing a Hero go nearly all out and give them so fun to finally see that happen. Fans can enjoy what they like so long as they don’t hate on it and good thing is fans still seem to Love Wanda in the Majority despite MoM doing what it did.

With that I think that the high demand for a New Scarlet Witch Project, especially a Solo Film, the blowback Fiege and the other creators of MoM have gotten and what seems by the end their desire to keep Wanda still in the good side after she breaks free of the Darkhold gives our MCU Wanda a chance to swing the pendulum the other way back to where we want her.

That is my hope with the events that have happened in recent weeks due to MoM blowback.

[Galerion]

But what if I don't like characters who beat people on a whim, especially when the individual is incredibly powerful?
Edgy characters who react to minor insult with immediate violence felt cheap lot of times. It's the "above thou" ones that are more interesting to me.
And Wanda should definitely "play the hero", at the end of the day she is still a superhero character. I would say the opposite, leave those bombastic threat event to others and let her care for the small folks.

Nobody is talking about beating up somebody just because they didn't say hello or something. But if somebody threatens, bullies or wants to harm you and/or others that are close to you those people need to be shown clear boundaries and if they overstep them they only have themselves to blame.

Perfect example




This guy legitimately tried to kill her with a missile and he got a warning that if he does something like that again she will return the favor and that it wouldn't even be difficult for her. To me that is an understandable reaction if somebody just tried to kill me and my kids but again your mileage may vary.


Im also of the opinion that somebody should get their own life in order before they should think about the life of others and last I checked Wanda has a huge list of things she should deal with. I mean certain events happened precisely because she didn't take care of them and put more even more stuff on top. Once she has reached a stable status quo in her life sure then she can go and play the hero but we aren't there yet and it's not even close. Everything else is simply unhealthy unless you want to see another grief-stricken magic explosion of course.

[gurkle]

This guy legitimately tried to kill her with a missile and he got a warning that if he does something like that again she will return the favor and that it wouldn't even be difficult for her. To me that is an understandable reaction if somebody just tried to kill me and my kids but again your mileage may vary.

Most people here think her behavior in "WandaVision" was in character. The movie... not so much. She doesn't act like Wanda at any point except when she gets all sad at the end.

They should not have made her a villain and they definitely shouldn't have done it in a way that she goes through the exact same arc as in her series. At best it's a missed opportunity to see her in a movie before she disappears again for at least a couple of years.

[GenericUsername]

I would classify that as a good guy turned bad. Now if she will continue as an anti-hero or becomes good is unknown. I do hope for the former though. She can make up for what she did but that won't suddenly make her a saint. That is unbelievable and IMO pretty unsatisfactory. But then I prefer characters with an edge to them so your mileage may vary. Just don't turn her into a doormat just so you can claim she is "good". If you talk shit you should still get hit.
Let her deal with her own problems and leave playing the hero to the others. She will show up if the threat is big enough that it warrants her participation. Basically just like it is with Thor or Captain Marvel who spend most of their time not even on Earth.



Well it is a shockingly consistent trait of them. Ever saved all the Jedi in hiding in KOTOR 2? If you expected some gratitude from them you were in for rude awakening.



The monk comparison was more that their believes and rules are similar to real-life monastery institutions with the whole celibacy thing and such.

She's still a villain and not an anti-hero for that story. She's possessed to commit murder like Tony in The Crossing. Or like Marvel did to her in AD that was a departure for her character, that they then had to walk back with possession because it went so against her character. And she even had better reasoning in AD, but it was so shockingly bad.

A character with edge is not necessarily someone that goes around mass murdering innocents. And while the Illuminati are debatable as far as innocence, the sorcerers she killed were not.

I never mentioned expecting gratitude from Jedi. They are woefully sanctimonious and don't recognize even their own flaws. That being consistent about them is why I started to not really like them. It's not full on hate, but if I had to choose, I would not join the Jedi nor the Sith.

[Lucky99]

Good point Princess Wanda..good point
spoilers:

https://youtube.com/shorts/tlCBRsJCatc?feature=share

end of spoilers

[Lucky99]

Most people here think her behavior in "WandaVision" was in character. The movie... not so much. She doesn't act like Wanda at any point except when she gets all sad at the end.

They should not have made her a villain and they definitely shouldn't have done it in a way that she goes through the exact same arc as in her series. At best it's a missed opportunity to see her in a movie before she disappears again for at least a couple of years.

Of course she wasn't in character in the movie..the book took over her impulses. You still don't recognize that?

[GenericUsername]

Good point Princess Wanda..good point
spoilers:

https://youtube.com/shorts/tlCBRsJCatc?feature=share

end of spoilers

I hate that because instead of the plot making her right, it goes out of it's way to make her wrong. Because there are such blatantly obvious differences between what they do. Her's is self-serving while his was to help others.

[gurkle]

Of course she wasn't in character in the movie..the book took over her impulses. You still don't recognize that?

Of course I recognize that, I just think it's bad storytelling to have a character do things she never would do and blame it all on something that happened offscreen. I looked forward to seeing Wanda, and we didn't see her, just a totally out-of-character version.

They may have shown that Doctor Strange could also become a villain if he used the Evil Book enough, but of course they would never have the character we know turn evil for a whole movie, because Strange was protected and Wanda wasn't.

I hate that because instead of the plot making her right, it goes out of it's way to make her wrong. Because there are such blatantly obvious differences between what they do. Her's is self-serving while his was to help others.

The "you break the rules and become a hero..." line doesn't even mean anything, it's just a stock villain line where they claim the hero is no better than they are. It's never true.

[CJStriker]

Most people here think her behavior in "WandaVision" was in character. The movie... not so much. She doesn't act like Wanda at any point except when she gets all sad at the end.

They should not have made her a villain and they definitely shouldn't have done it in a way that she goes through the exact same arc as in her series. At best it's a missed opportunity to see her in a movie before she disappears again for at least a couple of years.

It was a hack anyways because they never even really saw WandaVision and just kept shooting after it was done with its production. It showed by the MCU a total lack of commitment to staying on continuity with each other, such an armature moves you be wondering if the same people that gave us the connected Infinity Saga really are still working on Phase 4 right now and covid is not an excuse enough to not follow your own scripts of Canon.

That is why I think they did those 6 shots, with WandaVision and a bunch of other factors like Cameo-a-thon needed they just kept trying ti fix the mess the 1st Rami script was about and just kept making mess of all of it.

That is why they laid back on the Darkhold Possessing Wanda story which they should. It is the only thing that can explain the bad imbalance between WandaVision and MoM and it goes to figure they will use that too to take the heat off of them for forcing Wanda in the Darker Possessed-Fallen Hero route.


It will be what they use for her next project to fix her and show they are not as clueless as they are seeming right the MCU and Fiege. I doubt they will sit on another Wanda Project for years; they will likely want to hit the iron while it is hot due to popularity of Wanda, Miss Olsen being at her best A-Game and the need to make up for the mess they find themselves in post-MoM as well as for bunch of other reasons. You can’t kept the classes, tropes about Woman with to much power to fester for to long, if so and you bungle again it could spell the beginning of the end for the MCU.

[GenericUsername]

Of course I recognize that, I just think it's bad storytelling to have a character do things she never would do and blame it all on something that happened offscreen. I looked forward to seeing Wanda, and we didn't see her, just a totally out-of-character version.

They may have shown that Doctor Strange could also become a villain if he used the Evil Book enough, but of course they would never have the character we know turn evil for a whole movie, because Strange was protected and Wanda wasn't.



The "you break the rules and become a hero..." line doesn't even mean anything, it's just a stock villain line where they claim the hero is no better than they are. It's never true.

It's right up there with the we are both the same, you and I villain monologues. And people took it as some empowerment phrase. When it's a story about a woman who cannot control having power and becomes possessed, losing her agency. Not empowering at all.

[CJStriker]

Of course I recognize that, I just think it's bad storytelling to have a character do things she never would do and blame it all on something that happened offscreen. I looked forward to seeing Wanda, and we didn't see her, just a totally out-of-character version.

They may have shown that Doctor Strange could also become a villain if he used the Evil Book enough, but of course they would never have the character we know turn evil for a whole movie, because Strange was protected and Wanda wasn't.



The "you break the rules and become a hero..." line doesn't even mean anything, it's just a stock villain line where they claim the hero is no better than they are. It's never true.

And they are the MCU and Fiege paying for that now with the blowback they got, with the articles about sexist and misogynistic tropes in the movie over Wanda’s usage, they are not getting away with it and it starts to make the MCU loss their high ground.

It is Truly “What the Heck where they Thinking?!” Moment.

They are public figures and the general public is full of self-awareness about these terrible usages that might be able to get away with in small mediums like Comics, but on the Grand Stage of the World why Fiege though this would NOT be a problem, especially after taking such care over the ending of WandaVision to NOT show misogynistic tropes just is a mess and Covid is not a good excuse either, Covid did not stop common sense in telling a story.

I think sadly they just wanted SO Bad to do the Whole HoM and AD Stories that this was their moment and they were supposed to go darker with it sadly too. But thanks to bad fan reactions from early showings, Miss Olsen not agreeing to do more darker story elements and just WandaVision catching up in popularity with them, the MoM staffers got cooler heads to give Wanda the Way out with the Darkhold Possession.

It is lazy and was unnecessary to do this, but they thought it might be their get out of jail free card for the mess MoM seem to be becoming. Add that with the Cameos to try to smooth it all over, MoM suffered from so much it seems we will never fully know about.

Again, the good thing is it has bitten them in their A#$ and it will not stop following them until they set the record straight.

At least again they gave us the Darkhold out and likely will lean HARD on that in the next Scarlet Witch project, but they need to put their work into it, they cannot take for granted us the audience anymore cause to much of this and we may all start to bail back to our comics and out of the theaters.

I still think the best is yet to come for MCU Wanda, but the ones that did wrong needed this accountability and they got it, now they need to do the work to fix it.

[Lucky99]

Of course I recognize that, I just think it's bad storytelling to have a character do things she never would do and blame it all on something that happened offscreen. I looked forward to seeing Wanda, and we didn't see her, just a totally out-of-character version.

They may have shown that Doctor Strange could also become a villain if he used the Evil Book enough, but of course they would never have the character we know turn evil for a whole movie, because Strange was protected and Wanda wasn't.



The "you break the rules and become a hero..." line doesn't even mean anything, it's just a stock villain line where they claim the hero is no better than they are. It's never true.

She's kind of protected too because Wanda without any books or anything like that isn't going after Dr Strange and his entire crew or going after a teenage girl who can break reality barriers. But Wanda is not supposed to be some bland bore like Jean Grey either.

[CJStriker]

It's right up there with the we are both the same, you and I villain monologues. And people took it as some empowerment phrase. When it's a story about a woman who cannot control having power and becomes possessed, losing her agency. Not empowering at all.

The good thing is Fans Seem to despite all this sticking with Wanda, taking what good they got out of MoM, some having fun with it like the recent videos and artwork shown and showing the pure strength Wanda Fandom has despite the weakness of the production and creative team behind MoM.

Again, if fans too positives out of MoM, liked it, even liked, and got something out of those lines good, who am I to judge, so long as they love and still support Wanda, I will see the good being uniquely filled in life.

However, better must be desired now going forward without a doubt and not caring about how a Woman looks in these cases to the broad public shows Fiege and the MCU have lost their touch to engage good storytelling for now. They have allot of Work to do, I feel Love and Thunder will be ok, but after that what is announced going forward, they will indeed put in several folds more work than before.

Lazy and in the bubble writing like this will not stand for too long if it keeps happening and there is not self-awareness given.