"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[Albert1981]

I'm not gonna assume what a whole host of men from different backgrounds would do or not do. And empathy solves a not lived experience. It's just that this writer and this director didn't do a good job. That's all.

Yes, some men can write women well. I don't think the women in the MCU have been written in a way that is particularly realistic or compelling. And I have to say, as much as a I HATE the DCEU's movies, they wrote Harley Quinn and Wonder Woman better. I don't think I'm being particularly controversial in making that statement. So it's not just a superhero thing. It's an MCU thing. Hell, you could even say Law & Order: SVU's Captain Olivia Benson is a "superhero" and she is PLENTY popular amongst the general public. But it should be noted that Robbie and Hargitay did PRODUCE some of the stuff they appeared in and they definitely had an influence in how the characters they were playing were portrayed. Olsen probably just did what she was told. I enjoy the MCU a LOT, but I have to say that when it comes to empathy, I think 90s Star Trek, Quantum Leap and Law & Order did it better. There WERE consequences in those shows. They had stakes in them even when the good guys "won". I thought WandaVision had some pretty good emotional moments actually. NWH did too. The other Phase Four stuff, not so much unfortunately. Too much world-building for the sake of world-building. I would prefer if they finish previous storylines introduced in earlier MCU entries. Actors like William Hurt who portrayed Thunderbolt Ross in 2008 are now DEAD. That's why I think the MCU should hurry and get to the Hulk stuff that was left over in 2008 in She-Hulk instead of having another cameo-fest in that series.

[Galerion]

https://www.deviantart.com/daekazu/a...ness-918674111

[Albert1981]

I agree that a talented and insightful female writer would have handled her losing /search for the boys with much more intelligence and grace and we'd have a very different outcome. This was very avoidable. There are probably some male writers who could have also succeeded - I can think of a couple that are gay and easily could have done that. Definitely a couple who are not that failed ( I'm assuming Waldron is dating/married to a woman per the bio listing the name Elizabeth) on basic research and comprehension. Lizzie's performance is the only saving grace of the movie - and that's ONLY my humble opinion. She was beautiful and captivated on screen. The rest was fairly dull imho (again) aside from the costuming and sets. Imagine what she could have done with a script that was written that actually captured her spirit and struggle and left her in a place that had no blowback about being misogynistic and had people waiting with baited breath for her solo movie.

I do believe if they "tweaked" the MoM just a little bit, that movie could have EASILY made close to $1.5 billion dollars at the box office (even without having a presence in many other countries). But I feel that Marvel Studios is rushing their productions and it's hurting their quality a bit now. Which I feel is totally unnecessary. I think it is inexcusable that the creators of Strange 2 didn't watch WandaVision. That's not even doing the bare MINIMUM. So lazy. BUT, I don't blame Waldron and Raimi. I blame the bigwigs at Marvel Studios. I read that Raimi only first heard of WandaVision after he and Waldron were already three quarters into the writing process. If Strange began production RIGHT AFTER WandaVision begin airing in early 2021, how could Disney NOT expect chaos to ensue? That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. And plus, the writers and directors of future MCU projects have to watch SO MANY movies and shows now to catch up on things. The continuity issues that have plagued the comics for decades are now showing up in the MCU onscreen stuff. Comic book fans are used to it, but I don't think casual audiences will put up with it for another decade.

Personally yeah, I think it's almost impossible female writers would do the whole "women can't be given important responsibilities because they are liable to let their emotions get the better of them" thing. It's not like they weren't aware of this problematic kind of storytelling. GoT and Dark Phoenix were pilloried because they did it, and the MCU for reasons I don't understand chose to follow in their footsteps apparently.

What's shocking is that the MoM and Loki actually didn't really dive into magic and mysticism. WandaVision and Strange 1 actually explored it a bit more. Loki was more like a "X-Files/Doctor Who" show according to one of the comments of this video:



Again, the writers of Loki were accused of not watching previous MCU entries as well. LOL! Not sure if that was true though. I do remember there was a lot of exposition in that series and characters repeated themselves a LOT!

[gurkle]

When people say that comic wanda is unstable, talking about her magic abilities here, it's not true right?

It sort of depends on the writer. Some writers liked the idea that she couldn't completely predict the effects of her hexes, because that was an excuse for why she doesn't just use her hex power to solve every problem.

The 1998 Avengers run that introduced "chaos magic" had the idea that she can make simple hexes do more or less what she wants without thinking about it much, but for something big or more complicated, she needs to be able to concentrate and consciously shape her magic to the task. At the climax of the Ultron story we see what happens when she tries to do a big hex while being weak and unable to think (because Ultron has been torturing her for the last two issues); it ends up making Ultron more powerful when it was supposed to cripple him.

(A lot of stories in that run had Wanda saving the day with her magic, so they needed to see her screw up for a change. So it's not as bad as something like "Empyre" where she shows up only to screw up.)

What the last couple of "WandaVision" episodes introduced was the idea that Wanda has lots of power but does everything by instinct, having never studied magic in her life. Multiverse of Madness obviously didn't follow that up, but Wanda is like someone with a lot of raw talent but gaps in her training, while Doctor Strange or Agatha Harkness have less raw power but know more about what to do with it. Different comics writers have different ideas about how much Wanda actually knows about magic, but I think it's fair to say that a lot of what she does is based on instinct since her combination of mutant and magic power is sort of unique.

[Wiccan]

The covers of the Midnight Suns have been revealed officially. There is also a new trailer, and Wanda is corrupted on the villain's side...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZTsTXO3Nk



(she's the fourth one in the green cover)

[MaximoffTrash]

The covers of the Midnight Suns have been revealed officially. There is also a new trailer, and Wanda is corrupted on the villain's side...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZTsTXO3Nk



(she's the fourth one in the green cover)

I guess she is one of the "recruitable after defeat/rescue" character.
Hopefully they don't copy/paste too much of her lore into the Hunter lol.

[Wiccan]

Some screenshots:





There's a couple articles with some quotes from the director about her, though it's nothing very substantial, besides "In this version of the Marvelverse, Scarlet Witch has become Doctor Strange's apprentice. Lilith, however, has other plans for her." from the reviewer. The cover and one of the screenshots have her wearing the black and gold Midnight Suns, so I imagine she gets uncorrupted?

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/how...-better-for-it
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/spi...-midnight-suns

I guess she is one of the "recruitable after defeat/rescue" character.
Hopefully they don't copy/paste too much of her lore into the Hunter lol.

I think that's the case, if she was just a villain henchman it'd make no sense to put her on the cover, unless that's just shameless "clickbait". Though I'm not sure how this game works, since apparently there's a player self-insert.

[MaximoffTrash]

Hopefully there will be skins for the characters. Black and gold look weird on her, they could at least keep some red.
Wanda as Stephen's apprentice is actually a somewhat interesting premise if they actually dig more into their lore.(Early leaked footage still suggest Agatha had a part in Wanda's magic training or something.) Hopefully they don't pull a cliche like "mentor preventing his apprentice from pursuing a darrrrrrrrk path". That would be comical with another literal demon spawn as your protagonist, if anything should have a nuanced take on dark power/magic, this one should be it.(Though I am of the opinion that Wanda should not be easily corruptable, she should be on the rescue team for a change lol. But I won't complain since it seems she will join the protagonist team pretty early.)

[Ravin' Ray]

Chiming in here after I got a notification…

Attention was called to posts derailing this thread and subverting the meaning of it being an appreciation thread.

With the years (and even decades, if you include the pre-reboot board) of members posting and reacting to appreciation threads, I think it's become pretty clear that an appreciation thread that exudes only rainbows and puffy white clouds against a clear blue sky (pardon me for my prose, I'm in a moment and I'm seizing the opportunity while I can) without criticism (of the constructive type) rings hollow and artificial. The value of a character, after all, depends on large part on how well she is written and portrayed with a nod to consistency. (And if there is a seeming lack of consistency, then a rational explanation for that). Wanda is a character in whom you are all heavily invested in, and her MoM story has caused factions to appear (if not actually more sharply delineating factions that already existed in the first place), but we don't need a faction war in the style of Dungeons and Dragons© Planescape Faction War where opposing philosophically-oriented organizations go at each other's throats. (Even if you don't play the game, it's a fascinating read.) We're never going to like each and every post here, but as long is it doesn't flagrantly violate the spirit of the thread or the rules of the board we don't need to call it out with the vehemence that has left a sour taste in the mouth for some. In short, accept (objective) differences in opinion, and let it not wither your affection for Wanda.

[GenericUsername]

Chiming in here after I got a notification…

Attention was called to posts derailing this thread and subverting the meaning of it being an appreciation thread.

With the years (and even decades, if you include the pre-reboot board) of members posting and reacting to appreciation threads, I think it's become pretty clear that an appreciation thread that exudes only rainbows and puffy white clouds against a clear blue sky (pardon me for my prose, I'm in a moment and I'm seizing the opportunity while I can) without criticism (of the constructive type) rings hollow and artificial. The value of a character, after all, depends on large part on how well she is written and portrayed with a nod to consistency. (And if there is a seeming lack of consistency, then a rational explanation for that). Wanda is a character in whom you are all heavily invested in, and her MoM story has caused factions to appear (if not actually more sharply delineating factions that already existed in the first place), but we don't need a faction war in the style of Dungeons and Dragons© Planescape Faction War where opposing philosophically-oriented organizations go at each other's throats. (Even if you don't play the game, it's a fascinating read.) We're never going to like each and every post here, but as long is it doesn't flagrantly violate the spirit of the thread or the rules of the board we don't need to call it out with the vehemence that has left a sour taste in the mouth for some. In short, accept (objective) differences in opinion, and let it not wither your affection for Wanda.

I definitely always love Wanda, no matter how she's written. And I feel at least some good things for her are coming from games lately.

[GenericUsername]

When people say that comic wanda is unstable, talking about her magic abilities here, it's not true right?

I mean in early years yeah, her probability powers or Hexes, could work or not, or just makes something worst but that was in the 60s, later she grew and learn learn how to control it but also people bring times where she went crazy or evil but also forgetting that she went through possesion (life force etc) or was either controlled.

In recent years, i really dont count that empyre x-men mini which was made out of spite to set her character up in genosha .

She wasn't unstable until Byrne made her so and even that was for a brief time (and not picked up again until Bendis 15 years later).

She did have to learn to control her powers and gradually did that via learning traditional magic.

But people like to sum her up by some of the hack writing she's received in comics sometimes. Mostly because it's what they heard about her.

[GenericUsername]

That would be comical with another literal demon spawn as your protagonist, if anything should have a nuanced take on dark power/magic, this one should be it.(Though I am of the opinion that Wanda should not be easily corruptable, she should be on the rescue team for a change lol. But I won't complain since it seems she will join the protagonist team pretty early.)

Yeah she is strong enough to channel the power of Chthon but some writers think she's weak enough to be taken over because of Nights of Wundagore, where it only happened to introduce her link to him. It makes no sense after she learned to control those powers. But she's a woman with a lot of power, so here we are.

[MaximoffTrash]

Yeah she is strong enough to channel the power of Chthon but some writers think she's weak enough to be taken over because of Nights of Wundagore, where it only happened to introduce her link to him. It makes no sense after she learned to control those powers. But she's a woman with a lot of power, so here we are.

Yeah, and it's an early-day Wanda facing an experienced sorcerer Modred and literally Chthon himself.
In this game Wanda doesn't seem to understand her own origin/nature, but somehow the whole deal of killing Agatha still happened???
We get novice and also somewhat unstable Wanda again, but I guess it will be more tolerable than MoM. At least they are not gonna shove the baby plot on her in this one, riiiiigggght?

[GenericUsername]

Yeah, and it's an early-day Wanda facing an experienced sorcerer Modred and literally Chthon himself.
In this game Wanda doesn't seem to understand her own origin/nature, but somehow the whole deal of killing Agatha still happened???
We get novice and also somewhat unstable Wanda again, but I guess it will be more tolerable than MoM. At least they are not gonna shove the baby plot on her in this one, riiiiigggght?

The game doesn't make mention of Wanda's children so far.

[Galerion]