"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[Wiccan]

Michael Waldron repeats that the original plan was for Wanda to go bad towards the end of Multiverse of Madness, though people have misquoted it as if he's saying it was definitive that she would be the villain of an Avengers movie; what he said is, people said "it'll happen in an Avengers movie or something," and his pitch was that MoM would be a better movie if they dumped the original villain (presumably Nightmare) and had Wanda as the unstoppable horror slasher monster villain from beginning to end.

I don't know if the original plan would be better or worse for Wanda. Maybe worse, because people would actually take her heel turn seriously, while here it all happens offscreen because of a book that wasn't even portrayed that way in WandaVision. Or maybe better because then they could maybe have learned from the success of WandaVision and had her, you know, not go bad. But at least in the original plan they knew that a) people wanted to see Wanda team up with Strange before attacking him, and b) nobody cares about seeing Wanda do "Avengers Disassembled" in a movie where she's never met any of the characters before.

I do believe him that Feige had some Avengers Disassembled type of thing in mind all along, because there have been hints of it all the way back to Joss Whedon's commentary on Ultron (he points out that when Wanda pulls out Ultron's heart, we see the same hole we saw in Cap's shield in the nightmare Wanda gave to Tony, and Feige really liked that detail). Feige loves the 00s.

It happening on an Avengers movie or something like that sounds definetely worse to me, cause it'd be even more of a Disassembled adaptation, and I wouldn't like to see Wanda actually killing/hurting/fighting against people she cared about/who cared about her.

[Cruelrain]

Michael Waldron repeats that the original plan was for Wanda to go bad towards the end of Multiverse of Madness, though people have misquoted it as if he's saying it was definitive that she would be the villain of an Avengers movie; what he said is, people said "it'll happen in an Avengers movie or something," and his pitch was that MoM would be a better movie if they dumped the original villain (presumably Nightmare) and had Wanda as the unstoppable horror slasher monster villain from beginning to end.

I don't know if the original plan would be better or worse for Wanda. Maybe worse, because people would actually take her heel turn seriously, while here it all happens offscreen because of a book that wasn't even portrayed that way in WandaVision. Or maybe better because then they could maybe have learned from the success of WandaVision and had her, you know, not go bad. But at least in the original plan they knew that a) people wanted to see Wanda team up with Strange before attacking him, and b) nobody cares about seeing Wanda do "Avengers Disassembled" in a movie where she's never met any of the characters before.

I do believe him that Feige had some Avengers Disassembled type of thing in mind all along, because there have been hints of it all the way back to Joss Whedon's commentary on Ultron (he points out that when Wanda pulls out Ultron's heart, we see the same hole we saw in Cap's shield in the nightmare Wanda gave to Tony, and Feige really liked that detail). Feige loves the 00s.

I wish they did it in an avengers movie, i'm one of the people who said that if they were willing to do the whole Wanda being a big bad do it right or just don't, MoM ended up being lame and just didn't have any impact for being some multiversal event in the main earth.

Also in the avengers project probably neither raimi with his old school fight scenes and Waldron with his stupid writing would have been in the project.

It was Waldron who "fought" to have her as the villain in his movie just to ended up doing that mess and butcher her whole WandaVision arc with that motivation of "stealing her variant twins".

[GenericUsername]

I think you can cut some slack to viewers who watched the first three phases about wanting some sort of purpose to these movies and shows. Even "casuals" could sort of understand the stones were leading up to an epic battle between the Avengers and Thanos's armies. I think Phase Four is just basically been talking a lot about multiverses, Marvel cameos from non-MCU properties, and a massive increase in character introductions. So count me in the group that's bored and impatient about what the hell is going on. I felt bad for Zhao after the Eternals debacle. I hope it doesn't ruin her career. I feel bad for Shortland. Her Black Widow gig didn't do much for HER career. I like Shang-Chi a LOT. The first two thirds (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) were great. I was less enthused for the last third (How to Drain Your Dragon). The MoM was a disaster to me. I don't even think Raimi and Waldron like Strange and Wanda all that much. Raimi just wanted Disney to give him money for that indie horror project he's working on and Waldron is probably more focused on that Star Wars thing he's got lined up. My views on the MoM are similar to these two dudes' (I'm not AS critical as them though. LOL):

Yeah but even those same casuals have come to the conclusion this phase is leading up to Secret Invasion and Kang. It's not the casuals that have a problem with the universe. It's reviewers that have been complaining all along that the MCU being popular has kept other movies from the top spot.

Again, I didn't like MoM, most people did. We are definitely in the minority. And not liking something doesn't mean people will stop seeing these films.

[gurkle]

I wish they did it in an avengers movie, i'm one of the people who said that if they were willing to do the whole Wanda being a big bad do it right or just don't, MoM ended up being lame and just didn't have any impact for being some multiversal event in the main earth.

Also in the avengers project probably neither raimi with his old school fight scenes and Waldron with his stupid writing would have been in the project.

It was Waldron who "fought" to have her as the villain in his movie just to ended up doing that mess and butcher her whole WandaVision arc with that motivation of "stealing her variant twins".

Yeah, it was dumb, but I'm not sure there's any good way to do the premise of Wanda going crazy and killing people because she wants her kids. It's just a poisonous premise from a sexist story.

WandaVision was supposed to be the setup for that premise, with Wanda having and losing her kids with Vision, but they turned it into something that was complete in itself and didn't need to lead to a Disassembled type of story at all. But they couldn't let it go.

I guess I'm grateful to Waldron that he got it over with and executed it so badly that the damage was contained.

[MaximoffTrash]

It happening on an Avengers movie or something like that sounds definetely worse to me, cause it'd be even more of a Disassembled adaptation, and I wouldn't like to see Wanda actually killing/hurting/fighting against people she cared about/who cared about her.

And she would have a higher chance of being put down for good.

[MaximoffTrash]

I wish they did it in an avengers movie, i'm one of the people who said that if they were willing to do the whole Wanda being a big bad do it right or just don't, MoM ended up being lame and just didn't have any impact for being some multiversal event in the main earth.

Also in the avengers project probably neither raimi with his old school fight scenes and Waldron with his stupid writing would have been in the project.

It was Waldron who "fought" to have her as the villain in his movie just to ended up doing that mess and butcher her whole WandaVision arc with that motivation of "stealing her variant twins".

I don't know, it sounds like Waldron through his sheer incompetence pre-detonate the ticking bomb that could potentially off Wanda's character for good.
Now she is just crippled, not ideal but still kinda preferable to some full on AD deal.

[MaximoffTrash]

Yeah, it was dumb, but I'm not sure there's any good way to do the premise of Wanda going crazy and killing people because she wants her kids. It's just a poisonous premise from a sexist story.

WandaVision was supposed to be the setup for that premise, with Wanda having and losing her kids with Vision, but they turned it into something that was complete in itself and didn't need to lead to a Disassembled type of story at all. But they couldn't let it go.

I guess I'm grateful to Waldron that he got it over with and executed it so badly that the damage was contained.

If anything the whole thing is not bad enough, bunch of people still defend it and argue this is Wanda having real agency.
They didn't vaccinate her hard enough, some beyond fandom level controversy could serve in her favor.(Or she gets shelved for extended period of time, which is more likely lol.)

[Witchfan]

Elizabeth Olsen behind the scenes of Multiverse of Madness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow3iNoJcK5I

[Drops Of Venus]

Michael Waldron repeats that the original plan was for Wanda to go bad towards the end of Multiverse of Madness, though people have misquoted it as if he's saying it was definitive that she would be the villain of an Avengers movie; what he said is, people said "it'll happen in an Avengers movie or something," and his pitch was that MoM would be a better movie if they dumped the original villain (presumably Nightmare) and had Wanda as the unstoppable horror slasher monster villain from beginning to end.

I don't know if the original plan would be better or worse for Wanda. Maybe worse, because people would actually take her heel turn seriously, while here it all happens offscreen because of a book that wasn't even portrayed that way in WandaVision. Or maybe better because then they could maybe have learned from the success of WandaVision and had her, you know, not go bad. But at least in the original plan they knew that a) people wanted to see Wanda team up with Strange before attacking him, and b) nobody cares about seeing Wanda do "Avengers Disassembled" in a movie where she's never met any of the characters before.

I do believe him that Feige had some Avengers Disassembled type of thing in mind all along, because there have been hints of it all the way back to Joss Whedon's commentary on Ultron (he points out that when Wanda pulls out Ultron's heart, we see the same hole we saw in Cap's shield in the nightmare Wanda gave to Tony, and Feige really liked that detail). Feige loves the 00s.

I think it was better the way that it ended up being. I know the prospect of a slow build up to her villainous turn sounds like it could be better written, but I also fear the impact that would've had. With MOM, at least they got what they wanted out of the way quickly and in a way that meant a redemption could come faster. Saving her as an Avengers-level threat might've been worse not only for dragging this out longer, but also because the stakes would've been higher, meaning that more important/beloved characters could've been killed, which would make her redemption that much harder in the future. Making her kill a bunch of random magicians and some variants from the multiverse was actually ideal, because the audience had no attachment to those people as MCU characters. I think it'll be far easier to forgive and/or forget when she inevitably comes back this way. The same sort of applies in-universe, too. As it stands, the only heroes who have a real reason to keep a grudge against her are Strange, Wong and America. I take those 3 over the entire superhero community seeing her at her worst.

[Albert1981]

Yeah but even those same casuals have come to the conclusion this phase is leading up to Secret Invasion and Kang. It's not the casuals that have a problem with the universe. It's reviewers that have been complaining all along that the MCU being popular has kept other movies from the top spot.

Again, I didn't like MoM, most people did. We are definitely in the minority. And not liking something doesn't mean people will stop seeing these films.

From what I have read online, lots of people don't even know what the Secret Wars are! I certainly didn't know ANYTHING about Hickman's version of it. I learned about incursions thirty years ago...In Star Trek. I do think the divergence between comic book readers and the "normies" is growing. Most of the Internet chatter I've read has shown me that the comic nerds are delighted that the movies/shows are becoming "more like the comic books". I'm not among their number as you well know. I'm a pretty big hardcore fan of the MCU, but my sympathies and sensibilities line up completely with the "casuals". And I don't think they're liking the craziness and chaoticness of Phase Four. We'll see how long they stick with the MCU as we get more content on a seemingly monthly basis.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revi...ve-and-thunder

The above article is written by a "casual" Marvel watcher, and he states that Thor 4 was written basically for "fans". And he thinks the MCU is becoming impenetrable for the non-diehard fanbase. I think it's great Marvel Studios is rewarding MCU stans for their years of dedication, but it's gonna come at a cost to Disney because they aren't really growing that fanbase and making it easy for others who are part of it to stay with it.

https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/th...under-is-proof

I agree with that guy. I think Disney has to dial back on their Disney Plus Marvel shows to set things back on course. More and more people are agreeing with that position as Phase Four progresses, and I'm one of them.

[GenericUsername]

From what I have read online, lots of people don't even know what the Secret Wars are! I certainly didn't know ANYTHING about Hickman's version of it. I learned about incursions thirty years ago...In Star Trek. I do think the divergence between comic book readers and the "normies" is growing. Most of the Internet chatter I've read has shown me that the comic nerds are delighted that the movies/shows are becoming "more like the comic books". I'm not among their number as you well know. I'm a pretty big hardcore fan of the MCU, but my sympathies and sensibilities line up completely with the "casuals". And I don't think they're recalling liking the craziness and chaoticness of Phase Four. We'll see how long they stick with the MCU as we get more content on a seemingly monthly basis.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revi...ve-and-thunder

The above article is written by a "casual" Marvel watcher, and he states that Thor 4 was written basically for "fans". And he thinks the MCU is becoming impenetrable for the non-diehard fanbase. I think it's great Marvel Studios is rewarding MCU stans for their years of dedication, but it's gonna come at a cost to Disney because they aren't really growing that fanbase and making it easy for others who are part of it to stay with it.

https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/th...under-is-proof

I agree with that guy. I think Disney has to dial back on their Disney Plus Marvel shows to set things back on course. More and more people are agreeing with that position as Phase Four progresses, and I'm one of them.

Secret Wars and Secret Invasion are all I've seen people talk about on social media.

Those guys have their opinions but like us, they are in the minority. Most are ranking the shows and movies still pretty high.

So while I don't really care for multiverse stuff, and didn't like MoM, I'm very aware the my opinion is very much in the minority. And the whole universe is not gonna change nor stop because of what I like or dislike.

[Galerion]

https://www.deviantart.com/lugfranci...ITCH-921754338

[Frontier]

Would have been a fitting end for Mordo though. On his crusade of culling magic users he finally meets someone who turns it around. That would have been pure karma.

Still an utter waste of a character...especially since he'd barely done anything villainous on-screen up to that point.

[Galerion]

I mean, why is Kaecilius the poster boy of powered up herald of a stronger deity/entity?
Mordo's power up can easily come from absorbing energy from other sorcerers. Also main villain is not always meant to be bigger and stronger than the last.
Mordo holds more emtional weight to Stephen unlike Wanda who he barely knew.

Still an utter waste of a character...especially since he'd barely done anything villainous on-screen up to that point.

If you think that Mordo has anything to offer at this point then sure go ahead, I just don't see it. I see him in the same position as the Warrior Three in Thor. Side characters that have no place in the franchise going forward. They were killed off in seconds in Ragnarok and that was even turned into a joke in L&T. Those were Thors friends too by the way unlike Mordo who Strange couldn't care less about. The only criminal thing here is wasting an actor like Chiwetel Ejiofor like that. That's probably the only reason that has kept him alive for now. So outside factors are responsible just like with Sif.

[MaximoffTrash]

If you think that Mordo has anything to offer at this point then sure go ahead, I just don't see it. I see him in the same position as the Warrior Three in Thor. Side characters that have no place in the franchise going forward. They were killed off in seconds in Ragnarok and that was even turned into a joke in L&T. Those were Thors friends too by the way unlike Mordo who Strange couldn't care less about. The only criminal thing here is wasting an actor like Chiwetel Ejiofor like that. That's probably the only reason that has kept him alive for now. So outside factors are responsible just like with Sif.

I guess you just don't see the value of those characters who are kinda the core cast of a certain franchise.
Those characters could be explored more, the stories just chose to use them for cheap shock value. Also LAT is not received well for that kind of humanor.