"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[Ibara]

On the Agatha front, her understanding of the Darkhold and its history might have prevented her from reading as much as Wanda. Or the shtick of "absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Now if* anything positive is to come of the leaks it's that many have claimed she is essentially the second lead, with considerable screentime in the film; while that can definitely be a negative for people (i.e. more of a chance to butcher her character), I often think "villains" and their motivations seeming lacklustre in MCU fare is often a consequence of being underwritten. Wanda will at least have her library of limited MCU movies and WandaVision to supplement her story in addition to secondary lead screentime in MoM - which could add up to a more convincing, compelling, and emotionally resonant story for her. I would have preferred for them not to double-down on her trauma, but I'll make something I can drink outta the sour grapes they've given us.

[MaximoffTrash]

My mentality is probably weird, but making her a sympathetic villain and succed at that may permanently nail her to that role, and ultimately damn her to never to a proper hero again.

Basically they sold the idea of anti-villain Wanda so well and profitable that they decide it's the way she should be going forward, I dread that possibility.

At least obviously bad writing can incite backlash.
And I fear this movie will only give Wanda actual bad writing with only lip service of nuance just to shut down complaint.

[Kurt Busiek]

the mass reality warping idea is from Busiek first as well,

I think that first showed up in Byrne's AVENGERS WEST COAST run; it definitely wasn't me.

And the core theme of love, the core lore of Darkhold/Chaos Magic, came from Englehart and Busiek.

The romance between Wanda and the Vision was started by Roy Thomas and continued and brought to the point of being married by Steve, but the Darkhold stuff came during the "Yesterday Quest" story, written by Steven Grant, Mark Gruenwald & David Michelinie.

I was the one to link her mutant hex power to chaos magic, though, you bet.

kdb

[MaximoffTrash]

I think that first showed up in Byrne's AVENGERS WEST COAST run; it definitely wasn't me.



The romance between Wanda and the Vision was started by Roy Thomas and continued and brought to the point of being married by Steve, but the Darkhold stuff came during the "Yesterday Quest" story, written by Steven Grant, Mark Gruenwald & David Michelinie.

I was the one to link her mutant hex power to chaos magic, though, you bet.

kdb

Yeah, I know Wanda and Vision romance start with Roy Thomas, but WV's aesethtics/theme is more Englehart influenced.
Also by mass reality warping, I mean actually a functional "new world", which I think only your Arthurian world count as the first.
Nights of Wundagore storyline is the start of it, but again like you said, Chaos Magic as a concept is from you.(Gruenwald kinda just framed it as some kind of general magic talent.)

Again, maybe I should mention all the relevant writers, but I was just being bitter about AD/HOM as usual.

[Relugus]

The Wanda standing opposite MCU Wanda in the WestView scene is dressed in black, the colour visually associated with Darkhold corruption. I don't think the black clothes and black hair are a random sartorial choice.

Is the black clad Wanda actually the author of the Darkhold? Or corrupted variant?

It would seem odd to have Strange want to save Wanda and then make him look like a total idiot by having Wanda be actually evil. He's supposed to be "The best of us", not the "stupidest of us". I mean if they trash Wanda they will end up trashing Strange as well, while the cameos end up stealing the movie from him completely

BTW Agatha wanting to raise her mother should have absolutely stayed in WV, maybe it got cut due to the 10th episode being chopped?

[MaximoffTrash]

If they actually want to respect Stephen's character, this movie won't be the way it is in the first place.
He is pretty much one foot inside the plot device club as well.

[Cruelrain]

Wanda taking the worst part anyways, he would have a third movie while we don't know what would happen to wanda, she was just inserted in this plot because the writer and mandates love AD/HoM

[MaximoffTrash]

Wanda taking the worst part anyways, he would have a third movie while we don't know what would happen to wanda, she was just inserted in this plot because the writer and mandates love AD/HoM

I mean, there is no guarantee the 3rd movie will actually be about him and his core cast.
Sure Stephen is not being actively screwed over, but he is also pretty much bare bone at this point without any of his core cast and lore pieces properly introduced and explored.(It's been 6 years since his first movie, and those high fantasy concepts probably won't be explored in his other appearances.)
So basically, while Wanda got marinated by some filth that corrupts her character, Stephen is just.... bland.

It's a shame since Wanda can actually have a more natural part in Stephen's story.
I really wish for a "Widow in Cap 2" treatment, minus the part where Black Widow occupies too much Sharon's time/role.(I don't want Wanda to overshadow the likes of Clea.)
But as it turns out, overshadowing others is the least of Wanda's problem when she is already in danger of losing her character's integrity, while Stephen is losing his home turf.

[Drops Of Venus]

I think the story in WandaVision, of Wanda getting stronger and overcoming her grief, was designed to lead into Derrickson's Doctor Strange, rather than Raimi's. I am getting the impression (I could be wrong, of course) that Raimi and Waldron pretty much ignored WandaVision.

I don't think ignored is the right word, because her entire motivation in the movie revolves around a key plot of WandaVision. We literally see the Westview house in the trailer, so they definitely acknowledge the show. The problem here seems to be more about character growth; WandaVision positioned Wanda to evolve as a character, and now Multiverse Of Madness seems to be making her regress. You might be right about Derrickson having a different plan for the character originally, though.

[MaximoffTrash]

I don't think ignored is the right word, because her entire motivation in the movie revolves around a key plot of WandaVision. We literally see the Westview house in the trailer, so they definitely acknowledge the show. The problem here seems to be more about character growth; WandaVision positioned Wanda to evolve as a character, and now Multiverse Of Madness seems to be making her regress. You might be right about Derrickson having a different plan for the character originally, though.

So more like misinterpreted/misused the intent of that plot point.
I very much fear Raimi/Waldron are the type to favor their own legacy over the character's, which means they are pretty much like Bendis who will shock the audience with the most outrageous stuff and end up being cheered/applaud for it.

[CJStriker]

I don't think ignored is the right word, because her entire motivation in the movie revolves around a key plot of WandaVision. We literally see the Westview house in the trailer, so they definitely acknowledge the show. The problem here seems to be more about character growth; WandaVision positioned Wanda to evolve as a character, and now Multiverse Of Madness seems to be making her regress. You might be right about Derrickson having a different plan for the character originally, though.

So more like misinterpreted/misused the intent of that plot point.
I very much fear Raimi/Waldron are the type to favor their own legacy over the character's, which means they are pretty much like Bendis who will shock the audience with the most outrageous stuff and end up being cheered/applaud for it.

Right now there’s no real evidence besides stupid ridiculous leaks that they are ignoring the Show.

So far just them having us a set piece of the show shows they are so far acknowledging it so that is go for small starters.

Until we have real proper context we should not be jumping to the worst conclusions, or under cutting the directors who we are yet not certain what they are using yet.

I find it impossible to believe they would use nothing from the show, that does not yet seem to be the case and it is likely I still believe greatly the shows story will be greatly impacted in this movie.

[CJStriker]

Wanda taking the worst part anyways, he would have a third movie while we don't know what would happen to wanda, she was just inserted in this plot because the writer and mandates love AD/HoM

By what we have so far heard from Fiege so far they have longer term plans for Wanda in the MCU I remember discussing here before and Fiege already too careful steps to make sure WandaVision ended with Wanda Strong and taking charge of her powers.

It would be hard to nearly semi-implausible to believe they retracted in All of that.

Much more context for the characters and story is needed and I feel this is going to be FAR more complicated of a story then we are givening it and we got to stop believing leakers are the Be~All~End~All to what is happening in this movie. Context, Story and characters are the driving force, not leakers.

[CJStriker]

You explain it well.
Movies and their trailers pitch things to more than one audience. Of course we'll always have some audience of haters who will feel this is justice served.
But I believe you, I can't see this movie destroying her or her rep. Looks like a mad ride, and Marvel does a lot of bait and switch, that still fools some.

You said it well yourself, thanks for the good post explaining this view that we share together!

[Ultimate Captain America]

A piece of advise you should know already: never trust Marvel trailers. If something truly interesting and game-changing happens in the films, you won't know it from them.

[CJStriker]

A piece of advise you should know already: never trust Marvel trailers. If something truly interesting and game-changing happens in the films, you won't know it from them.

I could not agree more!

Trailers, especially to movies this complicated, and this steeped into mystery, and no matter what leaks you get, especially many they cannot be trusted, should never be taken just a face value.

Well said, There’s still so much more we don’t know and we should not be jumping to conclusions until solidly by real official sources to confirm.