Master of the Mystic Arts: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2022

[Albert1981]

It seems to me that you only like a certain style of superhero movie. While you are well within your rights to do so, you have to remember that there's a big audience out there. Some of us like more than just witty banter.

Yes, I got into the MCU more deeply because of that first Avengers movie. I even liked the second one a lot too. And that's basically because of the snark. I think Marvel Studios realized after 2012 that humor definitely needed to play a prominent role in its stories. I actually believe audiences connected more with the characters in the MCU because of the quips. Yeah, some of the jokes can be cringe, I fully acknowledge that. But at least the MCU didn't take itself too seriously unlike its Sony, Fox and DCEU counterparts. Wanda and Chavez were not funny in the MoM. Strange had a few good jokes about bad breath, forks on heads, and bands from the 60s but he was WAY too serious for my liking. But again, that's just MY opinion.

[DigiCom]

Yes, I got into the MCU more deeply because of that first Avengers movie. I even liked the second one a lot too. And that's basically because of the snark. I think Marvel Studios realized after 2012 that humor definitely needed to play a prominent role in its stories. I actually believe audiences connected more with the characters in the MCU because of the quips. Yeah, some of the jokes can be cringe, I fully acknowledge that. But at least the MCU didn't take itself too seriously unlike its Sony, Fox and DCEU counterparts. Wanda and Chavez were not funny in the MoM. Strange had a few good jokes about bad breath, forks on heads, and bands from the 60s but he was WAY too serious for my liking. But again, that's just MY opinion.

As my dad always says: "De gustibus non est disputandum".

[Albert1981]

As my dad always says: "De gustibus non est disputandum".

Your old man's right. These things are pretty much a matter of taste. I'm not surprised that the reaction to the MoM has been pretty polarizing though. The movie was definitely messy. Hopefully the third Strange flick will be better. This film will probably be Cumberbatch's most financially successful. But I don't get the sense he's proud of it. I think he was VERY proud of the Power of the Dog, and not many people saw that picture.

[Agent Z]

I thought the MoM was a slog because it wasn't really attempting to be funny like previous MCU movies. I kept getting bored when people asked each other "were they happy" and when characters repeatedly declared themselves not to be "monsters". I felt Strange 2 needed some more humor because I was really disengaged from that movie most of the time. I even thought Black Widow and the Eternals were better than the Strange sequel because they were funnier. The MoM did a GREAT job of making every main character in that movie thoroughly unlikable in my opinion.

Disagree. It's an MCU movie. There is never any shortage of jokes. Strange was about as likable in Multiverse of Madness as he's been in any of his other appearances.

The number of jokes shouldn't even be important. Whether they land with audiences is more important.

[Agent Z]

Your old man's right. These things are pretty much a matter of taste. I'm not surprised that the reaction to the MoM has been pretty polarizing though. The movie was definitely messy. Hopefully the third Strange flick will be better. This film will probably be Cumberbatch's most financially successful. But I don't get the sense he's proud of it. I think he was VERY proud of the Power of the Dog, and not many people saw that picture.

There are people dissatisfied with Multiverse of Madness, but I don't think the number is that large. The biggest criticisms I see about it pertain to Wanda and little else.

[DigiCom]

There are people dissatisfied with Multiverse of Madness, but I don't think the number is that large. The biggest criticisms I see about it pertain to Wanda and little else.

Well, I was dissatisfied, and not because of Wanda specifically. My primary criticism is that it's a bloated mess, and far too much time is wasted on a fan-servicing subplot that has little impact on the main narrative.

Did we actually NEED the Immuminati in this film?

[Frontier]

There are people dissatisfied with Multiverse of Madness, but I don't think the number is that large. The biggest criticisms I see about it pertain to Wanda and little else.

I've seen criticism about their handling of Strange himself. Even Cumberbatch was apprehensive about it.

[gurkle]

Other non-Wanda complaints are that there weren't enough cameos (this doesn't bother me) and that despite the title the multiverse barely figured into it; they could send Strange anywhere and he mostly just went to a couple of rooms.

Throw in the complaints about how Wong didn't get much to do, that there was never a real Scarlet Witch vs. Doctor Strange fight, etc. and there's a reason the movie got one of the lowest audience scores for an MCU movie.

That doesn't mean people had a terrible time or that it was a flop (clearly it wasn't) but there's a reason even the good reviews don't claim the script is good. The Wanda problem is just a symptom of the whole movie.

[Albert1981]

Disagree. It's an MCU movie. There is never any shortage of jokes. Strange was about as likable in Multiverse of Madness as he's been in any of his other appearances.

The number of jokes shouldn't even be important. Whether they land with audiences is more important.

Well they landed awkwardly with me. The slapstick Marx Brothers/Three Stooges homages just didn't do anything for me at all. And I felt this movie took itself way more seriously than was necessary. Strange was a loveable ******* in his previous appearances in the MCU. Bit of a jerk, but not really malicious or spiteful. I just thought it was a dick move for Stephen to put that spell on that Pizza Poppa guy just because he wanted to get paid. He was acting like a jackass just like Parker did in that second Amazing Spider-Man movie. And the post-credit scene with Clea had to be one of the worst in MCU history. At least it was cool when Fury startled Stark in his mansion by talking about the "Avengers Initiative". It felt perfectly natural to me. But having Clea ask Stephen if he was "afraid" about dealing with incursions and him going off with her after JUST meeting her seconds ago was SO awkward to me. It was rushed and I was severely underwhelmed.

[Albert1981]

There are people dissatisfied with Multiverse of Madness, but I don't think the number is that large. The biggest criticisms I see about it pertain to Wanda and little else.

A LOT of people did see the MoM. So it was a definite success on that front. But if you go on YouTube and watch video reviews of this movie, a decent chunk of them were pretty harsh and indifferent to it. Even those who praised Strange 2 in many online reviews were pretty lukewarm about it in my opinion. The MoM was supposed to be a MAJOR MCU tentpole movie. But people pretty much stopped talking about it a week after it was released. I think that's a bad sign. The momentum that the MCU got from NWH has completely evaporated in my view. And the Illuminati stuff was totally unnecessary as well. Professor X went from judging Strange to be this HUGE multiversal threat to helping Stephen get a hold of the Book of Vishanti in like THREE SECONDS. The pacing in the MoM was so fucking bad. And Mordo just COMPLETELY disappeared from the movie after the Illuminati cameos. Pointless! I feel Thor 2 flowed FAR better than this bloated mess of a movie. And I don't think the MoM did an adequate job of helping to set up the Young Avengers. A lot of have people have criticized the kids' performances (unfairly in my opinion, but Wanda's boys were pretty cringe in their scenes). So it was not just Wanda's portrayal that was a problem. This movie tried to do too much (like most MCU properties these days).

[Clea]

There are people dissatisfied with Multiverse of Madness, but I don't think the number is that large. The biggest criticisms I see about it pertain to Wanda and little else.

Editing my very snarky post: My criticism with the film has nothing to do with Wanda, and everything to do with the structure and execution of the film itself. It was a mess.

[Albert1981]

Don't wanna say that I HATE the MoM. I DON'T. I also don't wanna say that Strange 2 is the worst superhero movie of all-time. I've seen WAY worse. And some of the jokes in the Strange sequel DID land for me. I just thought that Marvel Studios put too much pressure on the creators of the movie. I don't believe Waldron has written ANY movie before, much less a HUGE MCU tentpole picture. And Raimi hasn't directed a movie in a decade. So it was asking a LOT of them to swoop in and take over from the previous writer and director of Strange 1. Too much in my opinion. I will say the movie was messy and more complicated than it needed to be. I agree with Disney's decision to cut down the run-time for the MoM and I think it was bold for Marvel Studios to branch out into the horror genre. I just think it was too ambitious.

By the way, if you "dreamwalk" and possess another person's body in another universe, that will cause an incursion. But if you "live out your life" like Steve Rogers did in another "timeline", that will NOT cause an incursion. I THINK I'm right about that.

[Albert1981]

Well, I was dissatisfied, and not because of Wanda specifically. My primary criticism is that it's a bloated mess, and far too much time is wasted on a fan-servicing subplot that has little impact on the main narrative.

Did we actually NEED the Immuminati in this film?

I remember watching a Broadway revival of the Glass Menagerie in 2013. My brother got our family to go see the show because he wanted to see Cherry Jones (Amanda Wingfield) perform live (she's a really famous stage actress in America, but she's done some television and movie work too). But I remember Zachary Quinto (Tom Wingfield) AND his eyebrows staring down right at me. Pretty amazing experience even though it's a play practically every American knows about. The reason why I bring up the Glass Menagerie here is that I clearly remember the love Tom Wingfield had for his physically and emotionally fragile sister Amanda. In the MoM, Stephen mentioned that he had a sister, Donna, who "fell through the ice" and that he couldn't save her. I imagine that Stephen, like Tom Wingfield, was very close to his sister in the comic books (in flashbacks). I would have liked to see a scene with Cumberbatch and "Donna". The MoM could have used the twenty some minutes they spent on the Illuminati on that relationship. Because to me, as much as I like Strange in the MCU, I don't get WHY he's so snarky and standoff-ish. He doesn't really have a lot of "heart" in the movies, and I imagine he became a doctor in the comics partly to honor his late sister. I think that would go a long way to explain why Strange became the way he is. Apparently Derrickson had to cut a really emotionally-charged scene (which the team making Strange 1 absolutely loved), and I wish they could have shown that sibling relationship through a flashback as opposed to a few words of expositon:

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a8...charged-scene/

[Albert1981]

Just wanted to note Derrickson's favorite horror movies:

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/scott-d...-horror-films/

Funny that several of the horror films he lists are not "slasher flicks" that the genre is so often closely associated with. More psychological thrillers so to speak. I've seen the Changeling and that film was not particularly bloody. It's so weird that the MoM is probably one of the MCU's most darkest and violent films, but at the same time also it's most campiest and corniest. I'm not sure if Raimi and Derrickson's views on "horror" really have that much in common. From what I understand Raimi was influenced a lot by the Night of the Living Dead and Halloween. The argument on whether Strange 2 was a true horror film continues to this day.

I was just mad at how Stephen was portrayed in this movie. Can we talk about the fact that “good Strange” was willing to let an innocent street vendor be tortured for 3 weeks, simply because the man didn’t want to be robbed? I mean what the hell? That was one of the corniest scenes in the MoM and made me feel that Strange 2 was basically Marvel's version of the Evil Dead. And does anybody else here find it weird when "limping" Wanda was chasing Strange, Palmer and Chavez in those tunnels and Stephen didn't use any of his magic to fight her off? He just ran away like a pussy. I was like, dude, do you wanna DIE? So not only is Stephen an incompetent magic user but he's also a jackass in the MoM. I could absolutely tell that Benedict was so bored doing this movie:



LOL! And what's with the CONSTANT and extremely cheesy facial close-up shots in this film? I could literally see the actors' and actresses' pores sometimes!

[BlackClaw]