IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2022

[Darkspellmaster]

The blur is ridiculous. If someone wanted to leak the costume, why would they blur it like that?

I've not been a big fan of the concept since the rumors started.





Is there an English translation?

I don't understand why Feige is playing coy if it is Namor and the Atlanteans. It's part of the reason why I don't think it's Namor and the Atlanteans.






It's beyond tiring. Especially when they then try to tell us that Namor can't support a book, after they've done everything possible to make sure he can't.





Well, one of the picks has the footy wings.





I've said from the beginning that an Mayan / Aztec connection with Atlantis is problematic. And are they really going to have a war between Africans and Hispanics?




It is going to be hard to outdo Momoa fanservice. ; p

Yup, this is my worry too about the idea of African and Hispanic characters in a fight. On top of that you already have fans of T'challa not happy with the way the ideas of yhe movie are panning out. If A Hispanic Namor comes in and wrecks Wakanda its gonna raise a hell of a lot of eyebrows. And did they consult a South American native about cultural aspects?

[Darkspellmaster]

I don't see why it would be problematic? Historically people of color have and do fight, so I don't see what's the issue?

Also connecting Atlantis to Mesoamerica is pretty cool since most theories place it in the Atlantic ocean so an Ancient Aztec/Mayan island civilization in the middle of the Atlantic makes sense to me.

Its cool but we already have too much of the "ancient alien " types coming in saying South American history is connected to aliens and the like. Making it be Atlanteans also makes me wince.

Could they not pull like they did with Atlantis the lost empire and make their culture a mix of a lot more?

Also to El_Gato, correct they are not, but that might not be seen as how some views will see it.

[Lunala]

Worried about this. Hope it succeeds.

. .

You and I are in complete agreement.

[Reviresco]

The Mayans and Aztecs aren’t Hispanics, they’re Indigenous. And i for one cannot wait to see the Jaguar and Eagle warriors on the big screen! Mesoamerican and African aesthetics! Man I stay winning!

Yes, you are correct. I'm sorry I wasn't clear and used the wrong word. What I meant to say was that they are indigenous, but they've been "claimed" by the mix of cultures and peoples that inhabit Central America, most of whom speak Spanish now.

I don't see why it would be problematic? Historically people of color have and do fight, so I don't see what's the issue?

Also connecting Atlantis to Mesoamerica is pretty cool since most theories place it in the Atlantic ocean so an Ancient Aztec/Mayan island civilization in the middle of the Atlantic makes sense to me.

Atlantis predates Meso-America, and if it's in the _middle_ of the Atlantic, then it also makes sense that it is European. And that's the problem. Because one of the 19ths century created 'myths' of Atlantis is that it is the cradle of civilization, not Africa, and specifically of the Aryans or Indo-Europeans, and that all other civilizations descend from Atlantis. IOW, the indigenous people of Egypt and Meso-American didn't create their civilizations with their pyramids and sun worship, but were copying the "superior" civilization of the proto-Europeans, or were colonies of the them. That is probably why you have Robert E Howard claiming the Cimmerians are Atlanteans survivors, who after the Hyborian Age, are the ancestors of the Celts.

Both the Africans and the Meso-Americans have been victims of colonization by white people and it's definitely a tactic of colonizers to pit people of color against each other for the limited resources they allow them. We see the remnants of this in America now with racial groups clashing with each other, especially if the groups coming in are migrants. Even in the comics, even in the Golden Age, Namor's Atlantis has been coded as indigenous, decimated by white expansionists, precipitating Namor's and Atlantis attacks on the surface, specifically against white America. The enemy of these peoples are colonizers, NOT each other.

Yup, this is my worry too about the idea of African and Hispanic characters in a fight. On top of that you already have fans of T'challa not happy with the way the ideas of yhe movie are panning out. If A Hispanic Namor comes in and wrecks Wakanda its gonna raise a hell of a lot of eyebrows. And did they consult a South American native about cultural aspects?

It would be Central America, but I don't know.

[Frontier]

Bring on the Mesoamerican Badassness

Hmm...feels kind of disingenous to me to try and make Namor and Atlantis into representing a completely different culture for diversity points, but whatever.

[Doombot]

The Mayans and Aztecs aren’t Hispanics, they’re Indigenous. And i for one cannot wait to see the Jaguar and Eagle warriors on the big screen! Mesoamerican and African aesthetics! Man I stay winning!

Why would an oceanic empire of water breathing , seafaring, sub-mariners have jaguar and eagle warriors? Even if Marvel does this, all they're going to do is steal the aesthetic and glue it onto the Atlanteans. They're not literally going to be Mesoamericans.

[Frontier]

Why would an oceanic empire of water breathing , seafaring, sub-mariners have jaguar and eagle warriors? Even if Marvel does this, all they're going to do is steal the aesthetic and glue it onto the Atlanteans. They're not literally going to be Mesoamericans.

That's about my take on it.

[Doombot]

Atlantis predates Meso-America, and if it's in the _middle_ of the Atlantic, then it also makes sense that it is European. And that's the problem. Because one of the 19ths century created 'myths' of Atlantis is that it is the cradle of civilization, not Africa, and specifically of the Aryans or Indo-Europeans, and that all other civilizations descend from Atlantis. IOW, the indigenous people of Egypt and Meso-American didn't create their civilizations with their pyramids and sun worship, but were copying the "superior" civilization of the proto-Europeans, or were colonies of the them. That is probably why you have Robert E Howard claiming the Cimmerians are Atlanteans survivors, who after the Hyborian Age, are the ancestors of the Celts.

All of this history gets tossed if Marvel does what people are saying they will. The entire idea was that all the cultures of ancient antiquity, specifically around the Mediterranean and much of Europe, were influenced and/or descended from Atlantis. Atlantis being the very ancient "mother culture'. When you change this, you change everything about Atlantis and it's descendants, including Namor.

Having ANY version of Atlantis be the enemies of Wakanda is a completely different topic. I still have no idea how a tiny, land-locked, east-central African country can make an enemy with an ancient aquatic empire from the North Atlantic. (Or Central/Southern Atlantic if rumours turn out to be true) Do people forget how big Africa is? How far the Atlantic is from Wakanda, which is a neighbour of real-life Kenya?

[Reviresco]

Hmm...feels kind of disingenous to me to try and make Namor and Atlantis into representing a completely different culture for diversity points, but whatever.

Why would an oceanic empire of water breathing , seafaring, sub-mariners have jaguar and eagle warriors? Even if Marvel does this, all they're going to do is steal the aesthetic and glue it onto the Atlanteans. They're not literally going to be Mesoamericans.

This has also been one of my concerns. There's a person on twitter that is doing all these great Meso-American takes on Namor's costumes, but almost all of them have the jungle animals / plants motif. They don't really fit an aquatic culture. But this is also what I was getting at, when I asked earlier: how much can you strip off of Namor and it still be Namor ... and Atlantis?


And for the record, I honestly do not care about the ethnicity of the actor playing Namor. He can be any race. All I ask is that the actor be a charismatic, god-like actor who can pull off the part. Oh, and he have great abs. ;p



That said, I did find an English translation of that Portuguese site, that 'leaked' this info:




https://twitter.com/KnightGambit/sta...0e66aqVDxIoUgQ





Of course, there's an error in this report... it should read: "confused with Aquaman, a character who STOLE Namor's comic book origin, amongst many other traits."

But yes, it appears they are going to strip quite a bit off of Namor, IF it is him in BP 2.

Oh wait, there's more:

Namor will be an important part of the film and will ask Wakanda for help to keep its people hidden from humans, as they started to find the place from a new technology created by Riri Williams, the future Iron Heart. . Namor's uniform, as also confirmed by Chippu, will be inspired by the traditional look and will focus on simple shorts and few embellishments as in the more modern versions. Finally, Chippu can confirm that a major battle between Wakanda and the people of Namor, and from that, new people of Wakanda will be introduced, including the local navy.

Uh, yeah. That makes zero sense.

All of this history gets tossed if Marvel does what people are saying they will. The entire idea was that all the cultures of ancient antiquity, specifically around the Mediterranean and much of Europe, were influenced and/or descended from Atlantis. Atlantis being the very ancient "mother culture'. When you change this, you change everything about Atlantis and it's descendants, including Namor.

Having ANY version of Atlantis be the enemies of Wakanda is a completely different topic. I still have no idea how a tiny, land-locked, east-central African country can make an enemy with an ancient aquatic empire from the North Atlantic. (Or Central/Southern Atlantic if rumours turn out to be true) Do people forget how big Africa is? How far the Atlantic is from Wakanda, which is a neighbour of real-life Kenya?

Well, IF this 'leak' is to believed, they are basically ditching the whole Atlantis thing. And I'm not sure what they mean by submerged? Are his people leaving in cenotes? Or caves with lakes? Are they even water breathers if they are sporting the iconography of a jaguar god?

What if these people are actually part of the Atlantean, or Lemurian, empire, or a lost city, and the movie ends with the real Atlantis hinted at in the post credit scene?

Yeah, don't get me started on a war between a land locked nation and an ocean empire. Though ... if you go by Marvels, Namor did flood the entire continent of Africa, as well as most the world, so ...

[Frontier]

Does this mean changing Namor in the comics too?

[Doombot]

Time for an oldmeme!

[Doombot]

Does this mean changing Namor in the comics too?

Considering how little Marvel cares about their actual Atlantis , I can see them pulling some major "syngergy" horseshit.

[Reviresco]

Does this mean changing Namor in the comics too?

Do you remember a horrible little mini-series named BattleScars? Holy amazing 'lose the same eye as your dad Nick Fury' contrivance!!

Time for an oldmeme!

LOL!

Yes, indeed. I'm going to have to boycott twitter for a week or so until the another Marvel s**t storm takes it's place.

Considering how little Marvel cares about their actual Atlantis , I can see them pulling some major "syngergy" horseshit.

I wonder if they are going to do the Namor Jr. route?

[Doombot]

Namor's people will not be Atlanteans but Aztlaneans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztl%C3%A1n

This is pure speculation on my part lol, but I could see it happening, and half of the Subby fan's heads exploding.

[Reviresco]

Namor's people will not be Atlanteans but Aztlaneans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztl%C3%A1n

This is pure speculation on my part lol, but I could see it happening, and half of the Subby fan's heads exploding.

Sure, why not? They can join the rest of the "A" mythological places that are suddenly retconned onto the Atlantean continent like Attilan and Avalon! ;p