IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2022

[Doombot]

I always imagined there could be a great story where Namor attempts to annex the Savage Land, claiming it as a historical colony of Atlantis and it's people her citizens. This, of course, causing all kinds of drama and sabre-rattling by the international community.

[Riv86672]

I always imagined there could be a great story where Namor attempts to annex the Savage Land, claiming it as a historical colony of Atlantis and it's people her citizens. This, of course, causing all kinds of drama and sabre-rattling by the international community.

That’s an event I would def. follow.
Namor and Ka-Zar are two of my my favorite characters, and seeing them square off would be pretty exciting.

[ImperiusWrecked]

What happened with the island in Inhumans was interesting but a whole secret prehistoric world? It would be event worthy for sure, but then again who outside of Ka-Zar would want the savage land? I'm not very well read in savage land history so would anyone complain if Namor decided he wanted to bring the savage land into the fold of places he rules over? Namor for all his hot headedness, is not a bad ruler. A lot of his issues stem from outside forces, and also a few internal politics, but mainly from surface world threats. His rule has been kinder than Tha-Korr's at the very least, and he gives second chances to a lot of citizens who go rogue.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I find that most artists these days are less concerned with what any character's "established" look is, and are more interested in what they see as "my take" on the character. It's both a good and bad thing. Of course every artist should feel they can create a version of a character as they see fit, but you also have to realize these characters are long established and are supposed to look a certain way, based on decades of previous work. At some point it comes down to Marvel editorial, and I'm sure as long as the character is wearing the current version of their costume, they don't give a ****.

I wanted to reply to this too, see I totally understand your line of thinking and say if this was for Captain America, Storm, Janet Van Dyne, Kitty Pryde, etc. we would usually have a very distinct look and we would know exactly who they were on the page in or out of costume (maybe not steve bc there are alot of same model for him like clint barton etc.) however Namor's look has never really been settled by any one artist, I think the last time it stayed consistent between artists was in the silver/bronze age? However whenever I was going through my saved panels for 100 icons I saw such a variety of how Namor looks by artists, not just like height/shape but his face changes alot too, broader, thinner, etc. I know we talked about this before but Namor is/was very hard to nail down for which actor could play him/look like him so artists have no real "base" of Namor like say for Steve Rogers. I'm not just talking artist styles, I'm talking like totally different looks that if he doesn't have his distinct ears/hair/eyebrows then to the average reader they would not know who he was out of his outfit. However talking about this I do wonder if the comics will take a version of Tenoch Huerta's look when/if that Namor comes to screen? They did it with Loki and with Doctor Strange.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Namor rejecting Charles, again, LOL.

Immortal X-Men (2022) #1

[Doombot]

Namor rejecting Charles, again, LOL.

Immortal X-Men (2022) #1

As if the Avengers or Defenders aren't strong without Namor. C'mon. I really hate what the X-men have become.

[Doombot]

What happened with the island in Inhumans was interesting but a whole secret prehistoric world? It would be event worthy for sure, but then again who outside of Ka-Zar would want the savage land? I'm not very well read in savage land history so would anyone complain if Namor decided he wanted to bring the savage land into the fold of places he rules over? Namor for all his hot headedness, is not a bad ruler. A lot of his issues stem from outside forces, and also a few internal politics, but mainly from surface world threats. His rule has been kinder than Tha-Korr's at the very least, and he gives second chances to a lot of citizens who go rogue.

The Savage Land has been fought over by quite a few entities, and international organizations. The X-Men, SHIELD, and Wakanda (who recently declared it a protectorate) would all have interest and probably object if Namor annexed the Savage Land. The U.N. declared it an international refuge and it is illegal to enter or exploit. Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, The High Evolutionary, Modok and AIM among others have all tried to conquer or claim the Savage Land or parts of it. There's also the kingdoms within the Savage Land itself who may or may not be open to Atlantean influence. There are the Savage Land Mutates, which have another X-Men connection as their city were originally founded by Magneto. And aside from the many tribal peoples, there are also a number of civilized kingdoms, all of whom descended from Atlantis, who may or may not welcome Namor as a King. Their could be lots of exploration having to do with colonization and exploitation of isolated, small power kingdoms, and tribal peoples vs a great Imperial Power. Plus, one more connection to Namor: Roxxon Oil has repeatedly tried to exploit and stripmine the Savage Land. Add to this the fact there is Vibranium present and you could have quite a nasty international incident if Namor tried to claim it.

You don't need to know anything about Ka-Zar or be interested in old fashioned "jungle heroes" to see potential in Savage Land adventures.

[ImperiusWrecked]

The Savage Land has been fought over by quite a few entities, and international organizations. The X-Men, SHIELD, and Wakanda (who recently declared it a protectorate) would all have interest and probably object if Namor annexed the Savage Land. The U.N. declared it an international refuge and it is illegal to enter or exploit. Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, The High Evolutionary, Modok and AIM among others have all tried to conquer or claim the Savage Land or parts of it. There's also the kingdoms within the Savage Land itself who may or may not be open to Atlantean influence. There are the Savage Land Mutates, which have another X-Men connection as their city were originally founded by Magneto. And aside from the many tribal peoples, there are also a number of civilized kingdoms, all of whom descended from Atlantis, who may or may not welcome Namor as a King. Their could be lots of exploration having to do with colonization and exploitation of isolated, small power kingdoms, and tribal peoples vs a great Imperial Power. Plus, one more connection to Namor: Roxxon Oil has repeatedly tried to exploit and stripmine the Savage Land. Add to this the fact there is Vibranium present and you could have quite a nasty international incident if Namor tried to claim it.

You don't need to know anything about Ka-Zar or be interested in old fashioned "jungle heroes" to see potential in Savage Land adventures.

That certainly sounds like alot! I personally feel more interested in more underwater adventures, since savage land is more jungle it would be kinda hard for atlanteans to live there unless there was alot of water based locations? But the idea of this, everyone trying to gain control of the savage land would be an interesting plot for an event for sure.

[Doombot]

Oh there are 20 things I would do with a Namor book before a Savage Land story, but I'm just saying there's good potential there.

[Oberon]

The Hickman story about ancient Atlanteans, in the FF, did not seem very connected to the Savage Land, but in terms of proximity there should be / could there be some tie in?
A part of this area that the Ancient Atlanteans handled might be an entrance into Savage Land or certain parts of it.
So from the Namor side, maybe there are even more strange aquatic creatures in this partially Savage Land/Underwater area.
I like the idea of keeping Namor in water, but having other new things to explore.

[ImperiusWrecked]

There's a lot of potential with Namor comics and future plots, if only we could get Marvel to see that ):

[Doombot]

The Hickman story about ancient Atlanteans, in the FF, did not seem very connected to the Savage Land, but in terms of proximity there should be / could there be some tie in?
A part of this area that the Ancient Atlanteans handled might be an entrance into Savage Land or certain parts of it.
So from the Namor side, maybe there are even more strange aquatic creatures in this partially Savage Land/Underwater area.
I like the idea of keeping Namor in water, but having other new things to explore.

The Savage Land has an inland sea, called the Goran Sea, connected in more than one place to the Southern Ocean, which is where Thakorr's Atlantis was located. Namor could have had adventures as a boy in the warm waters of the Goran Sea, full of prehistoric life.

I honestly have zero interest in Hickman's Ancient Atlanteans. It seems like just a random thing he threw into his FF run, never to be seen again. Why make these new Atlanteans when the actual Atlanteans are so utterly underdeveloped.

[Oberon]

I can understand that 0 interest. I think it was an opening of something that needed and should have gotten more attention.
I always feel that Marvel-time is incredibly longer than is focused on. Savage Land = prehistoric lands, but so does the AAs, which runs off of the real story those years ago about this pocket (large) of water and possible organics, deep in the southern, Antarctic regions. Hidden for thousands of years, there had been lots of speculation about the organics of an area that was separated for eons, from most of the rest of the world.
I just find the real idea so thrilling and thought Hickman did a cool thing. It even played up Sue, as most writers don't, and gave us that great scene of her smashing Namor with a force-fist.
Despite my pandering to the Sue-Namor dynamic, I loved that scene.
Maybe it's a potential for someone else to figure out someday. Namor has plenty of other avenues to explore.
So I really wouldn't care about Namor's adventures in the Savage Land, unless it somehow included these AAs. They are pretty interesting, potential villains, to me, with their no doubt connections to Deviants amongst other things.
I don't think it was totally random for Hickman to do it, it played into the war of 3/4 cities thing.

But I agree that it has never been seen again - and should have, in some way.

[ImperiusWrecked]

IMO the Ancients are no different than any other one of the usurpers who come out of the woodwork every few years to lay claim to the Throne of Atlantis, they don't have any actual claim, Namor by birth and blood right is the true heir to the throne otherwise he would not have lived/been allowed to live as he was, Tha-Korr would have had no regrets in sending baby Namor off to the distant oceans, or surface world, or even killing him if it wasn't for the fact that Namor was born the only true direct heir to the Throne.

I wouldn't mind seeing peoples like Sirenas, Ancients, Lemurians, etc. all try to lay claim to the throne as plot devices but saying they have any right to it is like saying the Vodans are Atlanteans, no matter how many writers attempt to retcon something the fact remains that Marvel always returns to "Namor is the true blood heir to the Throne and that's why even though he is half human, he is tolerated by his people and constantly takes back the crown whenever it is taken away from him".

I do want to point out that you are entitled to your ship as you see fit but honestly if we come down to it, I would not want Sue anywhere near any future Namor comics, not Namor in any Fantastic Four comics. It's up to the Fantastic Four comics to give Sue the representation she needs, the fact it took nearly 60 years for Marvel to give Sue her own stand alone comic is terrible, and her role on the team should be expanded however I've seen many fans say she should be an ambassador or diplomat to Atlantis or other people they meet on their journeys and I do not like that, that is my personal opinion that Sue should be some type of scientist given that the whole point of the Fantastic Four is a dynamic group of people exploring science and facing threats etc.

For all that people praise Hickman's Namor and the Avengers plot I do want to say that: Hickman's Namor is Namor pushed to his very edge, it's not the regular Namor we know, it's a character under extreme stress of his situation and dealing with trying to save his people. We need a writer who can give us more than witty quips and Namor taking things to the extreme.

[Oberon]

Oh, fiddle-dee you're no fun.

I have no doubt that Namor is the true lord of Atlantis, but the real "thing I got" from the Ancient Atlanteans (and to me, this has been talked about before)

there are other Atlantis sites, or derived from, ancient, remote. I love that mystery of it all.

To me, it would be like saying that once, in a very dim past, even before the Roman/Greek era and the Olympian Gods and their worship, there were these

elder beings. I think Lovecraftian. That is what the incredibly ancient stuff is to me - way, way before the Atlantis of Namor.
So maybe, it is not resonant or relevant in that regard.

Attilan (sic) in my opinion is more ancient than than the Roman/Greek Atlantis.

Now I grant you, that I believe that Marvel Atlantis per Neptune to Namor, is more ancient than our history.

But I still think these incredible more ancient versions are worth exploring, and Namor kind of belongs there to me.

Lovecrafthian includes things like Serpent Crown, Lemuria stuff to me. Ancient, dark magic, rather seen in the Dr. Strange canon.


It just would be a great world to explore on it's own - perhaps more suitable to be picked up again in FF, where they do these explore things.