IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2022

[Reviresco]

At best for BP2 we will get the whole "Namor was bad but then he was manipulated/finds out the humans aren't so bad and is now good" route or something. I personally would love an account of Namor's story on screen from his PoV where he is the hero to Atlantis but I'm trying to keep the bar low here for BP2, the director made a very sympathetic villain with Killmonger, so I'm hoping he can do the same with Anti-Hero Namor. However if we don't get a trailer, a promo pic, SOMETHING this summer then I will be concerned that Namor isn't showing up.

Of course, I'll have a different reaction. ;p

My greatest hope is that Namor will first appear in his own movie / show, but otherwise, that he'll appear in a Fantastic Four or Dr. Strange movie. My greatest fear is that he'll appear in a Black Panther movie.


A question for everyone.

We know that IF Namor appears in Black Panther, he'll be different from the comic version -- allegedly going with an Pre-Columbian take for one. But how different is too far? I mean, I have yet to see anything that confirms the alleged MCU Atlanteans are even going to be water breathers. Is the Atlantean language actually going to be Spanish? Are they going to blue? I mean what is going to physically distinguish Namor from the rest of the Atlanteans? IOW, is Namor going to be bi-racial? Is the only thing from the comics is going to be a hidden kingdom and "Atlantis" having a beef with Wakanda? If so, that is NOT Atlantis or Namor, IMO.

[Doombot]

A question for everyone.

We know that IF Namor appears in Black Panther, he'll be different from the comic version -- allegedly going with an Pre-Columbian take for one. But how different is too far? I mean, I have yet to see anything that confirms the alleged MCU Atlanteans are even going to be water breathers. Is the Atlantean language actually going to be Spanish? Are they going to blue? I mean what is going to physically distinguish Namor from the rest of the Atlanteans? IOW, is Namor going to be bi-racial? Is the only thing from the comics is going to be a hidden kingdom and "Atlantis" having a beef with Wakanda? If so, that is NOT Atlantis or Namor, IMO.

I'm not at all excited about the idea whatsoever, but I'm also not super invested. Maybe that's surprising considering I love Namor, but I have very little faith in MCU versions of any characters, and the problems I can imagine them creating while translating Namor to the MCU are endless. The fact that we're this late into the MCU lifespan only means it's even more of a factory machine run by consensus and executives meetings ad nauseam, that Namor has little chance of making it through the grinder with any sort of creative vision intact.

As for the Panther sequel, well, as much as I liked a lot of the first film, not all of it but enough, I'm not sure what exactly I'm supposed to be excited about with a film about the Black Panther with no Black Panther. I haven't dug into it, (so I could easily be wrong) but there's nothing I've heard that is remotely interesting about this sequel. Now throw in a possible Namor, as a villain, who is nothing like the source material, visually or conceptually, and I'm left sort of just scratching my head.

"How different is too different?" really is the right question. If you're going to toss the entire mythos and make it from scratch, why even use Namor? Why not just pick something else or make an entirely new character and their background? If all Marvel wants really, is to use the names "Namor" and "Atlantis" then just do everything in their power to change those things to make "Mr. Not-Aquaman", then I'm honestly not interested and simply don't get why they're bothering. Plus all it does is tear the relatively small Sub-Mariner fan base further into shreds, as there's been infighting and mudslinging going on over the casting rumors, race and culture etc, for months on end. It's tiresome and it's fighting over the wrong things, in my opinion anyway.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Hmmmm. I'm not sure how much is relevant to Namor, as most of it is in those Tales of Atlantis. And nothing mentions Cleito, IIRC. There's alot of Serpent Men and Set, though. And actually, the pre-Catacylsm Atlantis stories are in Kull, not Conan, who happens after the first cataclysm but before the second. There's also a few stories in Thongor of Lemuria, but I don't recall those being particularly relevant. Marvel has actually collected the Kull stories in 3 Omnibus.



If you check out this link, it talks about the comic collections. I didn't realize that Dark Horse had published the Marvel stuff earlier, also. They might be more affordable. Actually, the comics themselves are probably pretty cheap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kull_of_Atlantis#Comics



The ones I need to track down are about the pre-Cataclysm sorceress Zhered-Na.

Thanks Rev!

Of course, I'll have a different reaction. ;p

My greatest hope is that Namor will first appear in his own movie / show, but otherwise, that he'll appear in a Fantastic Four or Dr. Strange movie. My greatest fear is that he'll appear in a Black Panther movie.


A question for everyone.

We know that IF Namor appears in Black Panther, he'll be different from the comic version -- allegedly going with an Pre-Columbian take for one. But how different is too far? I mean, I have yet to see anything that confirms the alleged MCU Atlanteans are even going to be water breathers. Is the Atlantean language actually going to be Spanish? Are they going to blue? I mean what is going to physically distinguish Namor from the rest of the Atlanteans? IOW, is Namor going to be bi-racial? Is the only thing from the comics is going to be a hidden kingdom and "Atlantis" having a beef with Wakanda? If so, that is NOT Atlantis or Namor, IMO.

Back when the rumors first started I didn't want Namor in the Black Panther movie at all costs, but now that it keeps getting "reconfirmed" I'm just trying to look for the silver lining. We know the director has made the antagonist sympathetic before, and I'm hoping that happens again, because having Namor as an out and out villain is terrible imo.

I have such mixed feelings on the matter, while on one hand I know Comics Namor isn't ever going to get a push unless he is in the MCU. I also don't want the MCU to have Namor because the fanbase is wild. As Doombot said there's been infighting and stuff over Namor's ethnicity, and when the fanbase gets larger it might get worse. I personally just want a character that's true to the comics while also taking it to the next level. Marvel doesn't care about Atlantis in the comics, it doesn't care about Namor but we've all seen how one character in the mcu will gain an audience and then suddenly they appear everywhere in the comics, have their own merch, have their own comics, etc. I want that for Namor. I'm tired of Namor and Atlantis being treated the worst by Marvel comics. I want Namor stories, not just "namor is a supporting character in other's" stories.

I hope they keep the fact that Namor is biracial, imo it's VERY important to his story. I hope they aren't just making up whole new stuff and slapping Namor's name on it. I mentioned back in 2019 before any of these rumors came out about a Mayan inspired Atlantis.

2019 idea.jpg


So I was already on board with this idea before and I'm not against it. I don't mind if the MCU changes some things, even Ultimates (ugh) had a cool idea of Atlantis being Egyptian inspired. To me Atlantis is a fantasy undersea world, I want it to have been the inspiration for many myths and as a city that was highly advanced and is full of mystery and wonder and stories. I don't want them to change too much to the point that it's has no passing resemblance to the comics origin. I'm just very nervous yet excited. I hope this doesn't disappoint.

Honestly the best way to adapt Namor in media is by animation, it's the only way you can really get into the character and his world with no limits. As much as people love live action superhero movies, I always feel like animation is what comics should be if they are adapted.

[Reviresco]

Back when the rumors first started I didn't want Namor in the Black Panther movie at all costs, but now that it keeps getting "reconfirmed" I'm just trying to look for the silver lining. We know the director has made the antagonist sympathetic before, and I'm hoping that happens again, because having Namor as an out and out villain is terrible imo.

I have such mixed feelings on the matter, while on one hand I know Comics Namor isn't ever going to get a push unless he is in the MCU. I also don't want the MCU to have Namor because the fanbase is wild. As Doombot said there's been infighting and stuff over Namor's ethnicity, and when the fanbase gets larger it might get worse. I personally just want a character that's true to the comics while also taking it to the next level. Marvel doesn't care about Atlantis in the comics, it doesn't care about Namor but we've all seen how one character in the mcu will gain an audience and then suddenly they appear everywhere in the comics, have their own merch, have their own comics, etc. I want that for Namor. I'm tired of Namor and Atlantis being treated the worst by Marvel comics. I want Namor stories, not just "namor is a supporting character in other's" stories.

I agree. Except I am far more pessimistic about Namor's treatment in a BP movie, and how he'll be viewed afterwards. The only silver lining is that he MIGHT get a push in the comics.

I hope they keep the fact that Namor is biracial, imo it's VERY important to his story. I hope they aren't just making up whole new stuff and slapping Namor's name on it. I mentioned back in 2019 before any of these rumors came out about a Mayan inspired Atlantis.

2019 idea.jpg

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4724615


So I was already on board with this idea before and I'm not against it. I don't mind if the MCU changes some things, even Ultimates (ugh) had a cool idea of Atlantis being Egyptian inspired. To me Atlantis is a fantasy undersea world, I want it to have been the inspiration for many myths and as a city that was highly advanced and is full of mystery and wonder and stories. I don't want them to change too much to the point that it's has no passing resemblance to the comics origin. I'm just very nervous yet excited. I hope this doesn't disappoint.

Honestly the best way to adapt Namor in media is by animation, it's the only way you can really get into the character and his world with no limits. As much as people love live action superhero movies, I always feel like animation is what comics should be if they are adapted.

That's my question and what I fear they might be doing. For me, Namor HAS to be bi-racial and the Atlanteans HAVE to be physically different looking water breathers and Atlantis HAS to be the oldest surviving civilization since they are associated with sunken Atlantis, thus technologically and magically advanced. Those things are core concepts for Namor and Atlantis.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I agree. Except I am far more pessimistic about Namor's treatment in a BP movie, and how he'll be viewed afterwards. The only silver lining is that he MIGHT get a push in the comics.


That's my question and what I fear they might be doing. For me, Namor HAS to be bi-racial and the Atlanteans HAVE to be physically different looking water breathers and Atlantis HAS to be the oldest surviving civilization since they are associated with sunken Atlantis, thus technologically and magically advanced. Those things are core concepts for Namor and Atlantis.

Very core concepts, I really don't know if they will make the Atlanteans have blue skin, and I feel they should to showcase how Namor is different from Atlanteans and Humans, however one fan on twitter pointed out that blue skin paint might be used. I'm not that sure how any of this will turn out. And yeah I've been on twitter and seeing the fan reactions and talks after the Illuminati in doctor strange and it is driving me up the wall, just today I saw someone refer to Namor as the Joker to T'Challa's Batman and I wanted to *scream*. That's the biggest downside to Namor constantly being lumped in with T'Challa, it makes him look like BP villain or side character when Namor is NOT. arggh. I'm just trying to hope for the best. I do have to point out though that Wakanda's world building in the first movie does give me hope that the Atlantean worldbuilding might be done justice, and be shown its technological advancements mixed in with the Atlantean culture. I just really hope they don't make it all reliant on Vibranium. :/

[ImperiusWrecked]

Prince Namor & The Lady Dorma
Art by Alan Patrick

[Doombot]

Prince Namor & The Lady Dorma
Art by Alan Patrick

I absolutely love this and yet not at the same time. I love the skilled work and seeing Namor and Dorma, but man I don't love the weird mugging expressions he chose to give them, lol

[Reviresco]

I absolutely love this and yet not at the same time. I love the skilled work and seeing Namor and Dorma, but man I don't love the weird mugging expressions he chose to give them, lol

LOL! They are very ... frowny. ;p

But I do like this piece.

[Doombot]

I don't read conan but it sure seems like alot of pre fall history happens there, which comics do you think is best for reading to get all the info on that?

At best for BP2 we will get the whole "Namor was bad but then he was manipulated/finds out the humans aren't so bad and is now good" route or something. I personally would love an account of Namor's story on screen from his PoV where he is the hero to Atlantis but I'm trying to keep the bar low here for BP2, the director made a very sympathetic villain with Killmonger, so I'm hoping he can do the same with Anti-Hero Namor. However if we don't get a trailer, a promo pic, SOMETHING this summer then I will be concerned that Namor isn't showing up.

Hmmmm. I'm not sure how much is relevant to Namor, as most of it is in those Tales of Atlantis. And nothing mentions Cleito, IIRC. There's alot of Serpent Men and Set, though. And actually, the pre-Catacylsm Atlantis stories are in Kull, not Conan, who happens after the first cataclysm but before the second. There's also a few stories in Thongor of Lemuria, but I don't recall those being particularly relevant. Marvel has actually collected the Kull stories in 3 Omnibus.

Conan stuff has tons of serpent men, cults and Set for sure. How it relates to modern Marvel is kinda shaky, but personally I do like the REH "lost age" history being part of Marvel. I have no idea why, it really makes zero sense, but I love those old sword and sorcery characters, so reason be damned. I wish Sub-Mariner stories had a little of that fun infused into them. In my own head-canon fic, I had Namor taking every piece of ancient Atlantean art, statues, artifacts from the sunken continental Atlantis and various ruined Atlantises, and taking them into his new hidden Sacred Atlantis to preserve and keep safe. His expedition teams come across an ancient statue of a pre-cataclysm King, and they believe it may be Kull. It would eventually be discovered that the skull of Thusa Doom was incased inside the base of the statue in order to hide it from the world, and it would become something a storyline would be based around, a dangerous item of powerful dark magic being fought over by various parties, eventually bringing in Llyra and all kinds of highjinks. But then Savage Avengers was released with them bringing back Conan and the evil sorcerer Kulan Gath, and I was like oh.. poop. Stole my idea, bastards.

I remember reading old issues of Atlantis Attacks as a kid and being super confused about the whole Lemuria/ Deviant Lemuria thing. I was like, wait, there's a sunken Lemuria beneath the sea, and then another sunken Lemuria beneath the sea floor? Wait, then another Lemuria that was a continent like ancient Atlantis... WTF

[Doombot]

LOL! They are very ... frowny. ;p

But I do like this piece.

Namor looks like he's trying to be serious but is about to laugh.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Conan stuff has tons of serpent men, cults and Set for sure. How it relates to modern Marvel is kinda shaky, but personally I do like the REH "lost age" history being part of Marvel. I have no idea why, it really makes zero sense, but I love those old sword and sorcery characters, so reason be damned. I wish Sub-Mariner stories had a little of that fun infused into them. In my own head-canon fic, I had Namor taking every piece of ancient Atlantean art, statues, artifacts from the sunken continental Atlantis and various ruined Atlantises, and taking them into his new hidden Sacred Atlantis to preserve and keep safe. His expedition teams come across an ancient statue of a pre-cataclysm King, and they believe it may be Kull. It would eventually be discovered that the skull of Thusa Doom was incased inside the base of the statue in order to hide it from the world, and it would become something a storyline would be based around, a dangerous item of powerful dark magic being fought over by various parties, eventually bringing in Llyra and all kinds of highjinks. But then Savage Avengers was released with them bringing back Conan and the evil sorcerer Kulan Gath, and I was like oh.. poop. Stole my idea, bastards.

I remember reading old issues of Atlantis Attacks as a kid and being super confused about the whole Lemuria/ Deviant Lemuria thing. I was like, wait, there's a sunken Lemuria beneath the sea, and then another sunken Lemuria beneath the sea floor? Wait, then another Lemuria that was a continent like ancient Atlantis... WTF

Lemuria-ception!!! lol. Yeah, I love like sword and sorcery fantasy but never got into Conan but I might check out the comics that Rev recommended. I do feel all the Atlantean artifacts should be kept with Namor and Atlantis, it sucks every time I see other characters using it for their plots. The Serpent Crown comics with Conan only had one cameo by Namor and he is tossed into a desert ): it would have been cool if Marvel actually let Namor interact with his own people's stuff beyond the serpent crown though.

[Doombot]

Question time:

What would you feel would be an adequate reason for the simultaneous destruction of TWO huge island empires on opposite sides of the planet? How would you imagine an island could "sink"? Why just these two places? Why at once? Should the reasons be connected? Could they possibly not be and make any sense at all?

[ImperiusWrecked]

Question time:

What would you feel would be an adequate reason for the simultaneous destruction of TWO huge island empires on opposite sides of the planet? How would you imagine an island could "sink"? Why just these two places? Why at once? Should the reasons be connected? Could they possibly not be and make any sense at all?

I feel like an Atlantean/Lemurian war is the best and cleanest answer. No aliens, no celestials, no amazon warriors, just two nations in an arms race or something. Like Atlantis is the most advanced but Lemuria would have been the closest technical or magical rival. Perhaps Lemuria steals weapons from Atlantis, ones Atlanteans deemed too dangerous to unleash on the world and use that against Atlantis, the resulting shockwaves from the fall of Atlantis ripples across the world, drowning half of it and causing damage to Lemuria which sinks later at a slower rate. So Lemuria's own greed/bloodlust/need to destroy their enemies causes their downfall. Not only would this keep things centered on the two nations but also spark an eternal friction between them which makes them both mistrustful of the other/blaming the other for the misfortunes. Imo It would make less sense for them to not be connected, and then suddenly two water races? Better to keep this connection between them and grow stories out of it. Such as Namor finding himself having to trust a Lemurian soldier for the first time who later joins his armies ranks as they prove themselves. Namor taking control of Lemuria and the dissent between his two people. Magic would be a great thing to throw into the mix, perhaps Atlanteans are more science minded however they respect magic but don't use it as crutch for everything and choose to mix magic and science, while the Lemurians continue to worship their dark gods and use magic for everything.

[Reviresco]

Namor looks like he's trying to be serious but is about to laugh.

I didn't see it before, but I do see it now! There must be someone "off camera" doing something that makes Dorma frown and Namor suppress a laugh.

[Reviresco]

Question time:

What would you feel would be an adequate reason for the simultaneous destruction of TWO huge island empires on opposite sides of the planet? How would you imagine an island could "sink"? Why just these two places? Why at once? Should the reasons be connected? Could they possibly not be and make any sense at all?

In Tales of Atlantis, the capital city is attacked by Lemurians and the weapon the Atlanteans use to repel them is tapping into a magma flow (I'm guessing really deep?), which also ends up destroying their sea wall, and apparently leads to the drowning of the city. The magma can't be controlled, and overflows and destroys the city. Yeah, now that I read it again, it doesn't really make sense. Sounds like a geothermal weapon that blows up their island / continent. It doesn't mention what happened to Lemuria. However, IF Atlantis was tapping into the Earth's mantle, perhaps it would have repercussions around the globe.

Also, let's remember that Lemuria may have been much closer to Atlantis than it is now. The map during Kull's time is unrecognizable, sor of a super continent.

I can't remember reason is given for the Great Cataclysm is in REH / Conan history. But I'm thinking there's more than one, because the was some disaster that destroyed Conan's Hyborean Age, before our present history. It probably had something to do with the Serpent Men and Set.

Of course, Marvel retconned the Eternals and the arrival of the first Host into this storyline, so ...

Oh, and speaking of retcons ... let us not forget that the island continent of Atlantis also is the birthplace of the Inhumans, the first Attilan, as well as Morgan le Fey's Avalon. All hail the retcons!!!