IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2022

[Reviresco]

Very good list. And yeah the game thing is from a company that does mobile games so :/

I really wanted a console game. I just hope the art is nice, after seeing Namor in that awful Enter the Phoenix look I'm ready for anything. I would love to see something new for him that might change up his look for the future like they did with Jean Grey.

I'm thrilled that Namor is showing up in games, even if I don't play them. There are usually some good visuals, but more importantly, it introduces him to the next generation -- and usually as a hero. ;p

I try really hard to forget about Enter the Phoenix.

[Reviresco]

Haven't read the latest Eternals yet, but saw this online and Gillen strikes again.





Apparently, Namor has spent the last three issues of Eternals or Avengers that kick off A.X.E. in the hot tub with Sersi, while the other Avengers have been punching the Eternals and vice versa. LOL! I love how Iron Man thinks Sersi 'used' Namor to keep him out of the fight, and yet, Tony doesn't seem to realize that Namor also kept Sersi out of the fight.

Plus, it's been my headcanon, and now actual canon, that Namor KNOWS women like Emma and Sue and others use him, and he's more than happy to be "used," if it makes him happy. ;p

[Oberon]

I suppose I'm obliged to make this comment or respond, since I have no problem with polyamory and find it takes a lot of forms. I consider myself 'polysensual' (a term coined by a friend over 40 years ago, take that those who think their generation discovered sex - lol).

But I honestly don't believe most of you get it. Namor is a variation on a polysensual sort of being. Atlantis, revering Neptune and possibly other ancient deities would not have the same kind of sense of

modesty or narratives on relationships as we do topside, in our Christian/Monotheistic paradigm.

All this one man + one woman (or variations, but always "only" one + one) is because our society's paradigm has/causes people to hew to the societal construction of marriage, gender/roles etc.

Sure its taken quite a tumble in the last 10 to 20 years, but comic readers, are in an overlapping paradigm that kinda enforces some of the same values.

So people, not just here, lose their minds if it is possible that Sue feels something for Namor and vice a versa. Get over it, these are

Soap Operas, for comic fans and nerds.

Namor is at least 50 % non-waterbreather.
Of course he would be attracted to Betty Dean, or Diane Arliss.

Namor is not being used. It is his nature to be attracted to different women, or be more than attracted.

And there is nothing wrong with it, on either end.
I can't speak to it on Emma (never followed that, and always felt it was the consolation prize for not getting Sue, in a way) but I'm a bit insulted on the used by Namor.

Sue, like any other hero is a noble person who only wants to do right.
If she convinces Namor to work with the team, why is that being used?
He has his own agency and I resent this idea that he is so easily used.
Maybe his thoughts are his thoughts, whatever.

[Reviresco]

I suppose I'm obliged to make this comment or respond, since I have no problem with polyamory and find it takes a lot of forms. I consider myself 'polysensual' (a term coined by a friend over 40 years ago, take that those who think their generation discovered sex - lol).

But I honestly don't believe most of you get it. Namor is a variation on a polysensual sort of being. Atlantis, revering Neptune and possibly other ancient deities would not have the same kind of sense of

modesty or narratives on relationships as we do topside, in our Christian/Monotheistic paradigm.

All this one man + one woman (or variations, but always "only" one + one) is because our society's paradigm has/causes people to hew to the societal construction of marriage, gender/roles etc.

Sure its taken quite a tumble in the last 10 to 20 years, but comic readers, are in an overlapping paradigm that kinda enforces some of the same values.

So people, not just here, lose their minds if it is possible that Sue feels something for Namor and vice a versa. Get over it, these are

Soap Operas, for comic fans and nerds.

Namor is at least 50 % non-waterbreather.
Of course he would be attracted to Betty Dean, or Diane Arliss.

I don't think I, or anyone else has said Namor isn't / shouldn't be attracted to Betty Dean or Diane Arliss or any airbreather.


I'm not sure how to answer this, as I don't know what you mean by polysensual. I have no problem with Namor being polyamorous and don't think I said anything that would indicate that. One of my favorite scenes was in Subby 8, where Namor is sitting in Diane Arliss' apartment, while a resting Dorma is in the next room, talking to Diane about his love for Betty Dean in the Golden Age! Namor clearly can handle feelings for more than one person.

Namor is not being used. It is his nature to be attracted to different women, or be more than attracted.

And there is nothing wrong with it, on either end.
I can't speak to it on Emma (never followed that, and always felt it was the consolation prize for not getting Sue, in a way) but I'm a bit insulted on the used by Namor.

Sue, like any other hero is a noble person who only wants to do right.
If she convinces Namor to work with the team, why is that being used?
He has his own agency and I resent this idea that he is so easily used.
Maybe his thoughts are his thoughts, whatever.

Of course, Namor has agency. He has the agency to CHOOSE to be "used." Just as he did in the Eternals as he stated in that panel. Namor is a ruler, and has been raised as such since his birth. As ruler, he knows that people always want something from him, i.e. to use him and his power. We know there were Atlantean women, like Fara in Hulk #118, who sought a relationship to further their ambitions. I imagine the Atlantean court was much like the Tudor courts, where people and families vie for the ruler's favor.

Sue has 'used' Namor several times for personal reasons, i.e. to push Reed out of the lab. Sue mostly is trying to do what is "right" for air breathers, without any regard for the Atlanteans or for Namor's status amongst Atlanteans. Arguably, it was Sue's interference, at the very knowledgeable Captain America's request (another air breather that rarely considers the needs of Atlantis), that led to Namor and the Atlanteans helping out in Civil War and some fallout. And when Namor asked for her to do the same for him and Atlantis, in the Initiative mini-series, she refused.

And then there was that Old Kings of Atlantis mess that Sue inserted herself in an colonial way, because she felt she could get Namor to do what she wanted. Of course, Namor used Sue there, to get close to his ancient enemies the Old Kings.

None of that means that Namor and Sue do NOT have feelings for each other. Clearly they do, or they couldn't influence each other.

Yeah, Sue has nothing to do with Emma and Namor's relationship. They have a different and in many ways more honest relationship than Namor and Sue. It's definitely about the sex. But, at least on Namor's part, there is affection and concern for Emma. We didn't get to see much of Emma's emotions for Namor, because she was still trying to keep her relationship with Scott.

[Reviresco]

I'm thrilled that Namor is showing up in games, even if I don't play them. There are usually some good visuals, but more importantly, it introduces him to the next generation -- and usually as a hero. ;p

I try really hard to forget about Enter the Phoenix.

Okay, it's appears to be a digital card game. And allegedly, here's one of the Namor cards!



Don't recognize this piece ... I wonder if they are doing original art?


https://twitter.com/Marvelsnap_/stat...n3FnU4g2x94Xzw

[K7P5V]

Of course, Namor has agency. He has the agency to CHOOSE to be "used." Just as he did in the Eternals as he stated in that panel. Namor is a ruler, and has been raised as such since his birth. As ruler, he knows that people always want something from him, i.e. to use him and his power. We know there were Atlantean women, like Fara in Hulk #118, who sought a relationship to further their ambitions. I imagine the Atlantean court was much like the Tudor courts, where people and families vie for the ruler's favor.

OMG! I remember Mistress Fara. Sadly, Hulk #118 would be her first & final appearance

[ImperiusWrecked]

Okay, it's appears to be a digital card game. And allegedly, here's one of the Namor cards!



Don't recognize this piece ... I wonder if they are doing original art?


https://twitter.com/Marvelsnap_/stat...n3FnU4g2x94Xzw

Yay! Green speedo! He always looked his best in this suit because it makes the most sense to me for Namor to wear this outfit daily, however other outfits would be nice for different occasions. I just wish they would bring this back.

[Reviresco]

Yay! Green speedo! He always looked his best in this suit because it makes the most sense to me for Namor to wear this outfit daily, however other outfits would be nice for different occasions. I just wish they would bring this back.

They've released pics with five or six cards of a single character, like Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel. So, hopefully there are several other cards with Namor.

And yes, I agree. Bring back the speedo!

[Reviresco]

OMG! I remember Mistress Fara. Sadly, Hulk #118 would be her first & final appearance

Yes! That's her, plotting away against Lady Dorma.

[Reviresco]

So, I continue to eyeball this new Black Adam action figure, thinking how I can get his costume off and make this an awesome Namor figure. No work needed on his head, obviously. LOL!

Yep. I foresee this happening quite a few times this summer.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I suppose I'm obliged to make this comment or respond, since I have no problem with polyamory and find it takes a lot of forms. I consider myself 'polysensual' (a term coined by a friend over 40 years ago, take that those who think their generation discovered sex - lol).
But I honestly don't believe most of you get it. Namor is a variation on a polysensual sort of being. Atlantis, revering Neptune and possibly other ancient deities would not have the same kind of sense of modesty or narratives on relationships as we do topside, in our Christian/Monotheistic paradigm
All this one man + one woman (or variations, but always "only" one + one) is because our society's paradigm has/causes people to hew to the societal construction of marriage, gender/roles etc.
Sure its taken quite a tumble in the last 10 to 20 years, but comic readers, are in an overlapping paradigm that kinda enforces some of the same values.
So people, not just here, lose their minds if it is possible that Sue feels something for Namor and vice a versa. Get over it, these are Soap Operas, for comic fans and nerds.
Namor is at least 50 % non-waterbreather.
Of course he would be attracted to Betty Dean, or Diane Arliss.
Namor is not being used. It is his nature to be attracted to different women, or be more than attracted.
And there is nothing wrong with it, on either end.
I can't speak to it on Emma (never followed that, and always felt it was the consolation prize for not getting Sue, in a way) but I'm a bit insulted on the used by Namor.
Sue, like any other hero is a noble person who only wants to do right.
If she convinces Namor to work with the team, why is that being used?
He has his own agency and I resent this idea that he is so easily used.
Maybe his thoughts are his thoughts, whatever.

Namor does practice Polyamory, it's canon that he is polyamorous. However Namor above all else does whatever his current partner (or partners) are comfortable with, with Dorma it was a monogamous relationship, with Emma it was sex based, and with others it was more open. No one is saying Namor can't be polyamorous. I myself headcanon Namor to be Polyamorous and Pansexual with a preference towards seeking long term relationships with women. Namor is a sensual and sexually confident being without the toxic masculinity often associated with these types of characters. He knows he is admired/wanted/sought after by many people and he is arrogant. Namor certainly has affections for surface women as much as sea women. So I don't know why you are implying I don't understand what polyamory means. I know you love Namor/Sue as a ship and that's your preference. I do think Namor did have a crush/obsession with Susan in the early days of the Fantastic Four however it's clear he has moved on several times as well as Susan having made her choice long ago. There are many AU's depicting what would have happened if Namor and Sue had gotten together so it's not like it hasn't been explored.

Uncanny X-Men (1963) 534.1 - Only Namor has the ability to make the earth move. And he reserves that privilege for one woman at a time. Unless they have experimental friends.


Bucky Barnes: Winter Soldier (2014) #1 - I am not single. Well presently there are four. Brenda is my primary. Primary partner. Ulalume, Francis*, and China. I'm also seeing from time to time.
*note: Francis is the male version. The female version of the name is Frances or Francesca.



Namor knows he is being used by Sersi, he is a grown man and he is fine with it, just as he continues to team up with Doom even though he knows it won't end well. Sometimes Namor weighs out the risks vs the reward and finds it acceptable. It's comics, so like both characters using each other to further their plots is to be expected in some way especially when its presented in an "sleeping with the enemy" writing trope. Rev's assessment isn't wrong imo.

I do think that Atlanteans should not be judged by human standards when it comes to different types of romantic/platonic bonds, the concept of gender and sexual identity etc. Like they are an advanced and non surface human based people, things should be different. The base in greek mythology is also an interesting addition to these concepts etc.

As for Susan, well the issue I have is what Rev pointed out, even if they both had/still have some feelings for the other it's very clear that Susan uses Namor in a way that will benefit her, the surface world, and the Fantastic Four with little to no regard for Namor's happiness, the well being of the Atlanteans, nor care for Atlantis. The Undersea World will always come second to Sue after her world, and the fact that she is canon married, and nothing in Marvel will ever break that up, then it's in very poor taste and very poor character for her to reciprocate in any way feelings for Namor. Especially if it is without the consent of an open marriage arrangement with Reed, polyamory means consent and understanding on all who are involved or affected, otherwise it's just called cheating. I can't tell you how many times I've seen fans who haven't read the comics call Susan a cheater and many other derogatory names while praising Namor for "cucking" Reed. This and many other factors, including the fact that Namor is literally r/ped by Llyra wearing Susan's form when she slept with him without his consent and he was ready to kill her when Sue stopped him, is why I don't support the ship and have zero desire to see it again in any capacity. However it's fine because fans can headcanon what they they like and fanfiction is always great for exploring stories Marvel won't tell.

It's very frustrating to see fans online constantly using AU panels or comic panels that are taken out of context of the comic to prove Sue cheated on Reed with Namor and yet the one time it appeared she had before it was revealed it was Llyra is never talked about.

I don't think I, or anyone else has said Namor isn't / shouldn't be attracted to Betty Dean or Diane Arliss or any airbreather.
I'm not sure how to answer this, as I don't know what you mean by polysensual. I have no problem with Namor being polyamorous and don't think I said anything that would indicate that. One of my favorite scenes was in Subby 8, where Namor is sitting in Diane Arliss' apartment, while a resting Dorma is in the next room, talking to Diane about his love for Betty Dean in the Golden Age! Namor clearly can handle feelings for more than one person.
Of course, Namor has agency. He has the agency to CHOOSE to be "used." Just as he did in the Eternals as he stated in that panel. Namor is a ruler, and has been raised as such since his birth. As ruler, he knows that people always want something from him, i.e. to use him and his power. We know there were Atlantean women, like Fara in Hulk #118, who sought a relationship to further their ambitions. I imagine the Atlantean court was much like the Tudor courts, where people and families vie for the ruler's favor.
Sue has 'used' Namor several times for personal reasons, i.e. to push Reed out of the lab. Sue mostly is trying to do what is "right" for air breathers, without any regard for the Atlanteans or for Namor's status amongst Atlanteans. Arguably, it was Sue's interference, at the very knowledgeable Captain America's request (another air breather that rarely considers the needs of Atlantis), that led to Namor and the Atlanteans helping out in Civil War and some fallout. And when Namor asked for her to do the same for him and Atlantis, in the Initiative mini-series, she refused.
And then there was that Old Kings of Atlantis mess that Sue inserted herself in an colonial way, because she felt she could get Namor to do what she wanted. Of course, Namor used Sue there, to get close to his ancient enemies the Old Kings.
None of that means that Namor and Sue do NOT have feelings for each other. Clearly they do, or they couldn't influence each other.
Yeah, Sue has nothing to do with Emma and Namor's relationship. They have a different and in many ways more honest relationship than Namor and Sue. It's definitely about the sex. But, at least on Namor's part, there is affection and concern for Emma. We didn't get to see much of Emma's emotions for Namor, because she was still trying to keep her relationship with Scott.

I'm not a fan of "I'm not from your world but now I'm the most qualified person to handle this" types of story telling. Sure Susan punching Namor and being declared Queen/Ambassador and the Old King yielding to her was a powerful moment for her but in the long run? She did nothing for Atlantis after that, and it was never followed up on, so why should Sue command more respect than Namor who was literally born to that job and spent his whole life being prepared to take the throne? That's what bugs me about that Hickman storyline and so many other "Oh if X character ruled the Atlanteans/sea they would do a better job of it".

Rev I know you've been a Namor fan for a long time & actually I have been looking to see if there are any old internet boards/discussion places where fans might have discussed Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #50, aka the fake out Sue/Namor issue. I wanted to see what fan reaction was like in that era, did people really believe that Susan had finally slept with Namor? What did people who read it as it came out think of that issue? I've been trying to see if there were any old fansites or articles that might have covered this subject.

fake sue 1.jpg

[ImperiusWrecked]

So, I continue to eyeball this new Black Adam action figure, thinking how I can get his costume off and make this an awesome Namor figure. No work needed on his head, obviously. LOL!

Yep. I foresee this happening quite a few times this summer.

LMAO. oh my god. This looks like they just reused the Namor head mold for Black Adam, like legit looks almost the same.

[Oberon]

I guess I don't see it that way. I don't see why Namor should have been absent of Civil War.

Namor didn't want to have anything to do with the Old Atlant.s but they were discovered by the FF and science people, it seemed like someone needed to move forward with that discovery.

These are all plot twists or mechanisms to advance the story, and I think you, or maybe most of you

just want Namor to stay in the ocean away from the world of super heroes and what involves them.

Namor just isn't that interesting that way, anymore.

Isn't the high point of Namor since the '40s how he interacted with the topside world. What he did in his battles against the Android Torch, then the WW 2 effort with the Invaders.
Wasn't some amount of time spent with the idea (retcon via Invaders) that Namor needed to make that his and other Atlanteans part of that? I remember their ships and technology in some Invaders stories.

To me Namor is most interesting when he is the fish out of water. I know I've talked about how I loved his older Astonish and stories set in the water, but it needs more balance with above.

I only mention Diane, et al, because some of you don't really want him with surface women, preferring to bring Dorma back from the dead.
Admittedly I've liked this idea, but let's tie this up.
Namor can't seem to achieve a regular book under any of the things done before. Yes he seems to never have the right writer.

Yes, yes, he was savaged as a character almost as badly as Wanda was with AD and H of M -by the interactions and stories with Black Panther.
But he only seems to work as this antagonist.
He still has a better chance of being more interesting or necessary with being on a team or better guest appearances in Yes, FF.
A few posts back, some were listing all these characters from so many years ago as potential supporting characters and I thought who of a hopeful reading audience would remember all them and have time for their placement?
Good luck, I give up. polysensual only means I can care and relate to anyone in a sensual way. It is what most modern / Neo Pagans are like. A gentling of men on some terms. It has nothing for this dialog other than personal, as I just didn't think some of you understand polyamory, truly.
My personal hero is Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley, who wrote of Free Love and the emancipation of women, and is of course the more or less Grandmother of
Frankenstein.

[Doombot]

These are all plot twists or mechanisms to advance the story, and I think you, or maybe most of you

just want Namor to stay in the ocean away from the world of super heroes and what involves them.

Namor just isn't that interesting that way, anymore.

.

Wait, what? What do you mean anymore? When did we ever get Namor stories that were just in the ocean away from the superheroes of the surface? Even during the Silver Age and 90's run when we did get underwater stories, Namor is always dragged back to surface stories.

There's a reason the concept of Atlantis, where it is, what it looks like, who lives there are all kind of vague and nebulous, it's because we never get to spend any amount of time there.

I have nothing against Namor having relationships with surface women, it's that it's way past time we get relationships with characters that actually live in Namor's world. Also, I have no problem with Namor being polyamorous, I'm quite sure he is. I always would mind him having, not just multiple relationships, but multiple wives. He's the ruler of an ancient undersea empire, he could have many wives, even a harem, and it wouldn't be out of character. I'm also sure Namor would love every one of them.

[Doombot]

To me Namor is most interesting when he is the fish out of water. I know I've talked about how I loved his older Astonish and stories set in the water, but it needs more balance with above.
.

But you have to understand that Namor is also the "fish out of water" amongst his own people. It's kind of central to who he is as a character. He doesn't fit in anywhere. You can explore this concept with him regardless of the location of the story.