IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2022

[Reviresco]

This is the dude that leaked, talking for an hour+ about Namor
The guy himself kinda bothers me, so I've only skimmed a bit. Will watch more tomorrow.

Does he say why he blurred the image? I mean, it's not like this is the only guy with the image. And does he work for Marvel / Disney?

I'll try to listen to it tomorrow also, but again, it's long past my bed time.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Normally, I disregard all these "scoops" and "leaks" as completely unsubstantiated, but alot of this plays into my fears that Marvel will strip Namor of everything and just slap his name on an unrecognizable character, simply to have someone that Wakanda can be beat up, i.e. he'll finally be reduced to nothing but a BP villain.

Plus, I still don't understand why a leaker would blur a real image of MCU Namor.


It's the monkey's paw. We'll get a "Namor" comic, but he will be completely changed for MCU synergy


The only reason Namor would be in this movie is for an Atlantean / Wakandan war which he can be trashed in. It's why I've repeatedly said, Namor does NOT need to be in the Black Panther movie.

I've been trying to find other leaks but the fact that's the only image is making me suspicious, I never trust leaks until they are confirmed officially. Heck! We STILL don't have a confirmation that Tenoch is Namor, just very strong rumors! I feel like this person is doing it for clout and to gain views. I really am trying to keep my hopes up for the best possible outcome but also my fears of Namor being blamed for everything and once again turned into a BP villain are very real. The fact we still don't have one teaser or trailer is concerning but if they JUST wrapped production or something then we still have 6 months of editing. I keep hoping they will drop something in the summer, my guess is that Comic Con will have an advanced view of the BP2 trailer.

I mean at this point we have aquaman fans calling Namor a rip off, and Black Panther fans calling Namor a villain and no one actually gives a damn about Namor fans who just want a good showing of Namor.

[gonnagiveittoya]

IMO as long as Namor remains a douchebag who rules from the ocean idk if they change his look or the name of Atlantis

[Doombot]

IMO as long as Namor remains a douchebag who rules from the ocean idk if they change his look or the name of Atlantis

I can't imagine anyone who actually likes the character would agree with this.

[Reviresco]

IMO as long as Namor remains a douchebag who rules from the ocean idk if they change his look or the name of Atlantis

I can't imagine anyone who actually likes the character would agree with this.

My thought exactly, but put much nicer. ;p

[Reviresco]

I've been trying to find other leaks but the fact that's the only image is making me suspicious, I never trust leaks until they are confirmed officially. Heck! We STILL don't have a confirmation that Tenoch is Namor, just very strong rumors! I feel like this person is doing it for clout and to gain views. I really am trying to keep my hopes up for the best possible outcome but also my fears of Namor being blamed for everything and once again turned into a BP villain are very real. The fact we still don't have one teaser or trailer is concerning but if they JUST wrapped production or something then we still have 6 months of editing. I keep hoping they will drop something in the summer, my guess is that Comic Con will have an advanced view of the BP2 trailer.

I mean at this point we have aquaman fans calling Namor a rip off, and Black Panther fans calling Namor a villain and no one actually gives a damn about Namor fans who just want a good showing of Namor.

Well, that IS going to happen IF Namor is in a Black Panther movie, regardless of any changes.

It's not just the leaked blurry picture that's suspect. It's the whole article from that Portuguese site, with the submerged Mayan city and first I'm lacking something so that I need help, but if I don't get the help, I'm strong enough to go to war?? How is this site getting this info??

However, IF this is true, I now understand why there isn't a Namor comic coming out or any of his books getting published / reprinted. I mean, even Marvel editorial has to be scratching their heads wondering how the heck they are going to synergize the complete TRASHING of a character and his 80 years of history. Short of pulling a Nick Fury Jr., and producing a full grown son with this movie history and look, I don't see how they are going to do it.

Think about it. Your name is totally meaningless, IW, since this Mayan Namor would never shout Imperius Rex!

No connection with Atlantis myth and magic.
No connection to Neptune and the Greco Roman pantheon.
No first mutant / Marvel.
No Betty Dean.
No Jim Hammond.
No storied WWII career with the Invaders.
No Hobo Namor.
No discovery by Johnny Torch.

And on and on.

[Iron Maiden]

IMO as long as Namor remains a douchebag who rules from the ocean idk if they change his look or the name of Atlantis

I can't imagine anyone who actually likes the character would agree with this.

I can't agree with that statement either. Namor is proud and very regal. I think the MU monarchs tend to be throwbacks to the monarchs that were in Europe around the time of the War of the Roses - they're warrior kings. Unfortunately there has been this long standing characterization of making T'Challa the most noble. I think they really need a new take on Namor that's actually not new. Have him be more like the Namor of the Silver Age.

[Iron Maiden]

Well, that IS going to happen IF Namor is in a Black Panther movie, regardless of any changes.

It's not just the leaked blurry picture that's suspect. It's the whole article from that Portuguese site, with the submerged Mayan city and first I'm lacking something so that I need help, but if I don't get the help, I'm strong enough to go to war?? How is this site getting this info??

However, IF this is true, I now understand why there isn't a Namor comic coming out or any of his books getting published / reprinted. I mean, even Marvel editorial has to be scratching their heads wondering how the heck they are going to synergize the complete TRASHING of a character and his 80 years of history. Short of pulling a Nick Fury Jr., and producing a full grown son with this movie history and look, I don't see how they are going to do it.

Think about it. Your name is totally meaningless, IW, since this Mayan Namor would never shout Imperius Rex!

No connection with Atlantis myth and magic.
No connection to Neptune and the Greco Roman pantheon.
No first mutant / Marvel.
No Betty Dean.
No Jim Hammond.
No storied WWII career with the Invaders.
No Hobo Namor.
No discovery by Johnny Torch.

And on and on.

I know there is little chance of this happening but IMO a great sub plot for a Fantastic Four movie would include Johnny finding an amnesiac Namor.

[Reviresco]

I know there is little chance of this happening but IMO a great sub plot for a Fantastic Four movie would include Johnny finding an amnesiac Namor.

Well, I still hold out a small hope that Namor will first appear in the FF movie, and these leaked "scoops" are just wishful thinking.

I can't agree with that statement either. Namor is proud and very regal. I think the MU monarchs tend to be throwbacks to the monarchs that were in Europe around the time of the War of the Roses - they're warrior kings. Unfortunately there has been this long standing characterization of making T'Challa the most noble. I think they really need a new take on Namor that's actually not new. Have him be more like the Namor of the Silver Age.

Yes, Namor has been consistently referred to as the noble Sub-Mariner before the modern age, but as to who is the most noble, I'll have to disagree with you IM. T'challa's characterization has been for super smart, calculating and sneaky -- it's the more modern characterization that T'challa has to be the best at everything.

Sadly, only Namor fans remember that for many decades, Namor was noble but proud, and a voice of painful truth.

[Devaishwarya]

I'm a bit torn. I think Momoa could pull off the look, but I'm in the "maybe not the acting chops" camp for Namor.






Which Aquaman's origin would that be? Unlike Namor, Aquaman has had several origin stories. They basically stole Namor's origin and the whole bi-racial background for the movie. Not sure about the importance of his mother in the comics, but that's definitely a part of Namor's comics.





THIS. I think most superhero movie goers can tell the difference between a DC universe and a Marvel universe.






But they aren't really staying true to Namor's origin or story at all, according to the leak. And he's gone from ruling the oceans, to ruling a hidden city in Central America?

If you are going to name something Atlantis, it carries it's own baggage and culture. If you want to use an Aztec underwater myth, then call it by it's name and use that culture. Otherwise it is problematic.

Problematic for whom?
The MCU and DCU and FOX all have a history of changing the superhero stories from what is comic book canon to fit whatever narrative is being told so...I don't expect this to be any different.
Would I prefer if they stayed true to the source material? Yes.
Do I really care that they don't? No. Not in the least.
Marvel and DC don't pay me to stress out over something over which I have absolutely no control. Just give me great acting, good story and awesome production and I'm good. I'm just here to be entertained and to that end I can separate the Movies from the Comics and still enjoy both for what they are.

The leak is a leak...and I'm not going to put much stock into it. I will wait to hear from Marvel to get the real deets. I would say though, if there's any truth to this, a better, more ideal solution would have been to combine mythological and real world elements and redesign the imagery into something new and original rather than "borrow heavily" from Aztec myth and culture.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Well, that IS going to happen IF Namor is in a Black Panther movie, regardless of any changes.

It's not just the leaked blurry picture that's suspect. It's the whole article from that Portuguese site, with the submerged Mayan city and first I'm lacking something so that I need help, but if I don't get the help, I'm strong enough to go to war?? How is this site getting this info??

However, IF this is true, I now understand why there isn't a Namor comic coming out or any of his books getting published / reprinted. I mean, even Marvel editorial has to be scratching their heads wondering how the heck they are going to synergize the complete TRASHING of a character and his 80 years of history. Short of pulling a Nick Fury Jr., and producing a full grown son with this movie history and look, I don't see how they are going to do it.

Think about it. Your name is totally meaningless, IW, since this Mayan Namor would never shout Imperius Rex!

No connection with Atlantis myth and magic.
No connection to Neptune and the Greco Roman pantheon.
No first mutant / Marvel.
No Betty Dean.
No Jim Hammond.
No storied WWII career with the Invaders.
No Hobo Namor.
No discovery by Johnny Torch.

And on and on.

Everything so far has been speculation, Marvel themselves have not even confirmed it is Namor and not another ancient kingdom. I'm gonna lay my final thoughts on this subject for now until we get some actual concrete official proof of anything up to and including seeing the movie in theaters this November because I really love this character a lot and I want the best chance for his character to finally step into the spotlight and get the recognition he deserves. I do not trust Marvel Comics. I do not trust the MCU. I more than most am very critical about the MCU which is why it almost pains me to try to put a defense in until I am proven wrong by the movie.

1. Mesoamerican Native Atlanteans:
- I have all long said that the Atlanteans have been coded as an "Other" aka non-white undersea race. While they are a fictional race they are still coded as Indigenous People of Color. Which is why I would have been happy with any kind of nod/acknowledgement to that. An acknowledgement to Namor being Biracial. It more than anything is the core of his character and why he is the way he is, his people were done a grave injustice, and he is the Avenging Son for a reason. However Namor struggles with his surface/white/human side as well, which makes the Atlanteans mistrust him. He is literally a character with his feet in two worlds yet unable to fully belong to either. He is an angry and deep feeling character who has a very strong moral center that does not always line up with surface humans. He is a protector of his people and his home, the oceans. So far we have no knowledge if Fen/Leo is even going to be mentioned, nor anything else.

We all know that the core original concept of Namor from his creator Everett was not Atlantis, however that is and has been Namor's long standing backstory. Golden Age Namor Comics even mention Atlantis long before Aquaman's Silver Age retcon to become half human/half atlantean like Namor. So yes, Namor does have claim, he does have a right to be called an Atlantean in the movies, and a right to showcase Atlantis and be true to the comic lore. And it is deeply unfair that because Aquaman is the more popular character that he will always be seen as the original King of Atlantis instead of Namor. It's unfair to us as Namor fans to have to give ground to this when we have spent years already dealing with this from DC/Aquaman fans and then for Marvel/MCU to not even say he is from Atlantis/have any ties to his long standing Lore, because "they are too worried to be similar to Aquaman". It makes me mad, it makes me upset because it is not fair. So yes, I can understand how Namor fans don't want this change, and it has nothing to do with race or not wanting a Mesoamerican Native Namor. It has everything to do with the fact we have waited years and years for Namor to show up on screen and if we are lucky Marvel might drop a line like "Oh they are where the myth of Atlantis came from but actually they are the X people and their city is called X" and use Namor's name and nothing else. By that point would it not have been better to simply use Mesoamerican Lore in a respectful way to showcase Latino/Native Mexican representation?

Myself I am on board with the Tenoch casting, I am interested in the Mesoamerican Native Atlanteans, I do HOPE that MCU Namor will be good and as one fan put it very neatly:

"I worry too, but I think there's solid reason for hope. There has always been a thread of indigenous identity in Namor and his people, so turning that subtext into text isn't a transformative change, it's an evolution of a concept already present. It's additive, not subtractive."


2. We as Namor fans have been bitching and moaning for years that Marvel has never given Namor any kind of world building, we have cobbled together Lore from every comic read, we have waited for someone to see the potential of Atlantis, it's mysteries and stories, and I will be the first to admit that Namor needs a big push to get out of this cycle of Marvel using him and destroying Atlantis. I don't want to disregard any of Namor's past or his Lore at all, but I want Marvel to build on that. We need new stories, new concepts to weave into the web already laid out. The sad and very true fact is that Marvel does not care about Namor because they do not see him as a money maker, and only having scores of fans suddenly knowing of Namor through the movies will ever move them to give the character a push because they want to make money off of that.

This has a very real downside of going the Quicksilver route, in which a character is introduced into the MCU, his entire background and personality is changed and all they kept was the name/powers, and then it did nothing for him in the comics and Quicksilver has been in comic limbo since 2018 because of MCU synergy. I have already lived through what happens when one of my favorite characters is done dirty by the MCU. I already know the outcome and what fan response will be like. I was there to see the change in fan perception of Quicksilver before and after the MCU, and now I can't even go into a single search or tag about Quicksilver without seeing that terrible MCU version of him who literally dies in the first movie he is in. This is why I hope Namor's inclusion in the mcu will be different, because I already know how bad it can get.

3. Just give the movie a chance. The MCU will never truly base Namor off a direct comic to screen adaptation, because they haven't done it for any of their other characters either, characters that are much more popular than Namor.

Do I want all of that? Hobo Namor, the Invaders, Jim Hammond, Betty Dean? Yes, of course! However this is a Black Panther movie, things are not going to happen that don't tie into that. It sucks that Namor is once again being connected to Black Panther when I know as a character he has never needed them to tell his story. Unless Marvel does the impossible and actually gives Namor his own movie and his own solo plots not connected to Black Panther or the Avengers then I will not be expecting them to actually include all the plots and things I love about his Lore. I am already scratching my head wondering why Namora? Why her instead of Nita as a family member? Nita is much more well known and more popular than Namora if they needed a family member. If they needed a female Atlantean in general then why not Dorma? We literally have so little information that getting upset over anything that isn't even proven doesn't actually matter at this point.

Everyone is of course free to hate and speculate on whatever rumors come out but as for myself I will continue to wait until I get the full picture of what is happening. I support Namor's character above all else and it's the only reason for me to have any interest in the MCU these days otherwise I would just continue to ignore the MCU as I've been doing.

[Iron Maiden]

Well, I still hold out a small hope that Namor will first appear in the FF movie, and these leaked "scoops" are just wishful thinking.




Yes, Namor has been consistently referred to as the noble Sub-Mariner before the modern age, but as to who is the most noble, I'll have to disagree with you IM. T'challa's characterization has been for super smart, calculating and sneaky -- it's the more modern characterization that T'challa has to be the best at everything.

Sadly, only Namor fans remember that for many decades, Namor was noble but proud, and a voice of painful truth.

I guess I didn't word that very well but what I meant was that since the Marvel set up this conflict with Namor and T'Challa, his character's reputation suffers in comparsion.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Namor the Sub-Mariner Hellfire Gala art by Chris Bachalo

[Devaishwarya]

That's a little basic for the King of Atlantis. I would have expected Namor to put in a bit more effort even if he doesn't really care.

[ImperiusWrecked]

As art on it's own, it's fine.
As Hellfire Gala art?
I'm disappointed.
Not trying to shade the artist or anything, but this is what Namor would wear to an Oracle Inc. office party