IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2022

[gonnagiveittoya]

I wonder if they'll find a way to work in Imperius Rex into the movie version considering how heavily it's drawing from Mexican/Mayan influences. It'd be kind of weird for him to be speaking in Mayan and then in Latin

[Reviresco]

I wonder if they'll find a way to work in Imperius Rex into the movie version considering how heavily it's drawing from Mexican/Mayan influences. It'd be kind of weird for him to be speaking in Mayan and then in Latin

This is one of my major disappointments with the MCU change. We won't have Namor yelling his unique catch phrase. I don't think there's anything like it in Mayan culture, but I could be wrong.

[Reviresco]

The Namor/Aquaman thing is so funny.

A lot of people don't know that Namor predates Aquaman. They also don't know that writers pretty much "copied" Namor's origin and attitude and grafted it onto Aquaman. Aquaman wasn't even from Atlantis originally.

That being said, I was skeptical about the Mesoamerican Atlantean merger but I've changed my mind about it over time. The way Coogler is depicting it looks epic and everything Namor looks grand from that descent into the throne to his not flinching at laser fire to his child birth (I'm surprised and very impressed they kept his winged ankles).

Yes, Coogler did a great job. That throne room scene is so amazing! Like I've said, I'm torn about this change, but since the MCU had already erased so much of Namor's place and connections from the comics, there probably wasn't as much to save to make an impression on the average movie goer. Since the kept what I think are important physical traits, like the iconic speedo and bracelets, the pointy ears, and ANKLE WINGS -- as long as those Atlanteans are blue underwater, so that Namor can be an outsider in both worlds, and they keep his personality, I can ... let ... it... go. LOL!

Exactly. I'm amazed at how many alleged Aquaman fans don't know his history. He wasn't even from an underwater race, originally. He was a surface breather whose father experimented on to make a water breather.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I'm VERY happy about the Ankle Wings, it's so important to Namor's character because he was the FIRST flying superhero and while Aquaman might take many things he can't take that! I have zero patience for Aquaman fans who are bashing Namor these days, they already had decades of content, games, cartoons, movies, comics, etc. and now they can't stand that the original sea king is finally getting a chance to shine. lol.

I'm super curious about Namor's connection to the gods in this world, it's something the comics barely touch on and I think it could provide another source of Namor being set apart from the Atlanteans. There would be those who fear him and those who revere him.

I really don't think the Atlanteans will be blue underwater, I don't know why but this could provide an interesting Lore of their biology to explain why they are blue on land.

People are upset about Namor's speedo (shorts) and want him in that Black Armor, lol, but the shorts are amazing and they did such a great job incorporating classic Namor into MCU Namor's look. He actually looks like a King with all his jewelry etc.

[Reviresco]

I'm VERY happy about the Ankle Wings, it's so important to Namor's character because he was the FIRST flying superhero and while Aquaman might take many things he can't take that! I have zero patience for Aquaman fans who are bashing Namor these days, they already had decades of content, games, cartoons, movies, comics, etc. and now they can't stand that the original sea king is finally getting a chance to shine. lol.

I'm super curious about Namor's connection to the gods in this world, it's something the comics barely touch on and I think it could provide another source of Namor being set apart from the Atlanteans. There would be those who fear him and those who revere him.

I really don't think the Atlanteans will be blue underwater, I don't know why but this could provide an interesting Lore of their biology to explain why they are blue on land.

People are upset about Namor's speedo (shorts) and want him in that Black Armor, lol, but the shorts are amazing and they did such a great job incorporating classic Namor into MCU Namor's look. He actually looks like a King with all his jewelry etc.

I'm biased, but I disagree emphatically with those people. The green trunks are ICONIC and they actually make sense -- for a swimmer. They are different from the standard superhero costume. You can find Namor in any giant group shot, because he's not wearing the body sock. And they fit so many aspects of Namor's personality -- his exhibitionist side and his giving absolutely no Fs. I know there's some that say they aren't regal enough, but Namor makes them so. Plus, they make me think of those ancient civilizations that insisted on an unblemished king -- and what better way to show that than showing he's exactly that. And finally, there's this quote I found from Jeff Parker:

"It's like Tom Spurgeon used to say about Namor, the guy who shows up for a fight in speedos has already won."


The most obvious biological reason for the Atlanteans to be blue outside of the water is that they are cyanotic, and not getting enough oxygen has far too many debilitating side effects. If there's a magical reason ... But even more importantly, it would undercut a core principle of the character, in that he wouldn't face any racism in Atlantis for his skin color. Like Aquaman, except Mayan, i.e. a Mayan living amongst Mayans.

Yes, I'm curious what, if anything, they are going to do with the connection to the gods in the movie. As Doombot said, he was right, and it's clear now that the image on this hat is not a Jaguar god, but Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan.



I think the comics have done a fairly good job on Namor's connection to Neptune -- though, of course, they could do so much more.

Those Aquaman fans are just worried. ;p

[ImperiusWrecked]

lol, that's a pretty good quote!

Yeah, I really want people to understand Namor has been the outside from both sides of his people but like others have mentioned we don't know how much time they will devote to Namor's story in this movie.

The Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan is a feathered serpent, so it's a mythical snake with wings, in some art I've seen it have 4 wings much like Namor has 4 wings, so this is very interesting.

I do think the comics have established that Neptune and Namor are connected very well but like I agree that they can do more and that's the issue I always want them to do more about the LORE of Atlantis.

I really don't understand how Marvel would be able to do MCU synergy with the comics in regards the the MCU version, with Aquaman all they did was redraw Arthur to look more like Momoa at times or keep him still blond/blue eyed and had his hair longer like Momoa and gave him tattoos, but this is a very different kettle of fish.

This is going to be a whole new lore, and while Marvel does tend to go with MCU synergy, they also are very into their continuity and nothing with that changes much which is going to make me wonder just what the comics will have in store for us.

[Ravin' Ray]

This is one of my major disappointments with the MCU change. We won't have Namor yelling his unique catch phrase. I don't think there's anything like it in Mayan culture, but I could be wrong.

Unless he picked Latin from those Mexicans who practice a syncretic religion combining native and Catholic elements, using both Nahuatl and (liturgical) Latin.

[Reviresco]

Unless he picked Latin from those Mexicans who practice a syncretic religion combining native and Catholic elements, using both Nahuatl and (liturgical) Latin.

Interesting point! Though ... I'm getting the feeling that MCU Namor may predate that or have been isolated from that.

I a going to miss IMPERIUS REX!

[Reviresco]

There is quite a bit MCU Namor fanart coming out now. Will try to post some tomorrow.

But I HAVE to post this tweet. The heart is in the right place, even if the facts weren't, but it had me ROFL.

IT WAS NAMOR BEING BORN UNDERWATER!!! HIS MOM & DAD ARE DIFFERENT NATIONALITIES. MOM IS HUMAN & DAD IS NAMORIAN. WHATS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? DON’T YOU HAVE GOOGLE?!

https://twitter.com/Noetic_Neo/statu...r38c3IPQktwUeg

Don't you have Google!!!! LOL! Namorian. Hahahahahaha

[K7P5V]

Interesting point! Though ... I'm getting the feeling that MCU Namor may predate that or have been isolated from that.

I a going to miss IMPERIUS REX!

Yeah! I'll miss it, too.

[Reviresco]

Yeah! I'll miss it, too.

Alone. And in my speedo. ;p

K, you've always got an appropriate panel, and I do appreciate that.

[Reviresco]

lol, that's a pretty good quote!

Indeed. I thought it was an accurate assessment. ;p

Yeah, I really want people to understand Namor has been the outside from both sides of his people but like others have mentioned we don't know how much time they will devote to Namor's story in this movie.

I agree. They don't have to devote alot of time to that aspect -- his father can be introduced in the montage, and the people it will be important to, will get it immediately, especially if they see it manifested by acting choices.

The Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan is a feathered serpent, so it's a mythical snake with wings, in some art I've seen it have 4 wings much like Namor has 4 wings, so this is very interesting.

And apparently, there's a mortal hero by the same name, which could be used in interesting ways.

I do think the comics have established that Neptune and Namor are connected very well but like I agree that they can do more and that's the issue I always want them to do more about the LORE of Atlantis.

I really don't understand how Marvel would be able to do MCU synergy with the comics in regards the the MCU version, with Aquaman all they did was redraw Arthur to look more like Momoa at times or keep him still blond/blue eyed and had his hair longer like Momoa and gave him tattoos, but this is a very different kettle of fish.

This is going to be a whole new lore, and while Marvel does tend to go with MCU synergy, they also are very into their continuity and nothing with that changes much which is going to make me wonder just what the comics will have in store for us.

I hope Marvel realizes this and doesn't even bother trying. Instead they should put the effort they do with some of their inexplicably favored characters, and give Namor the repeated chances and pushes in the comics to restore him to his former place of prominence. Once again, I'm reminded that DC does it so much better with their Namor knock offs.

After the film was announced, with Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson being hyped as the new face of the DCEU, DC Comics have moved to put increasing focus on the enemy, and former champion, of Shazam. Not only did Brian Michael Bendis add him to his Justice League ensemble, as well as Black Adam's use in the 2020 mini-event Endless Winter, but as the movie has drawn closer, fans have been treated to a series of tie-in prequel comics. There has been a limited series from Christopher Priest, Black Adam's prominence in the Dark Crisis event, as well as a series of trade paperbacks set to drop around the release of the film.

The only character with as much focus as Black Adam in the comics right now is Batman.

https://www.cbr.com/black-adam-comics-strategy-dc/

[Doombot]

While I do, and will most likely continue to, have issues with this version Namor, as well as the how's and why's of the way Marvel Studios/Disney decides to do things, it does not mean I am not excited to see our boy on screen and getting some long overdue attention. I know it's the nature of fandoms and the online world, but the extremes people are already at surrounding Namor's depiction in the film are aggravating and depressing, if not predictable. I'm finding the people gushing online over every little thing about this Namor have just as little to go on as the people who immediately dislike the Namor because he's "Mexican" or "brown" or "just looks dumb" or "isn't Namor". I have no interest in ruining anyone's excitement about finally seeing Namor on screen, it IS exciting, but I resent being lumped into some category of mindless, ignorant, racist if I don't immediately love every single thing about this film's Namor and the choices made in it's creation. I think the worst people on both extremes are always the loudest, and it tends to draw lines in the sand that do not need to be there. I've loved this character since I was a kid, I have feelings and opinions on this subject. They're going to be different than yours, and that should not be seen as an evil.
(This isn't a response to anyone here, it's just my reaction to navigating the online world in the past week, most of which I should avoid as much as possible going forward, and just wanted to vent.)

People who love Namor and have a clear view in their minds of who he is and how he should be depicted, like I do, have to come to terms with, and accept, that this is just another iteration of Namor, in a long line of people putting their own stamp on a character that was here before them and will out live all of us, and that we can just enjoy it for what it is. As someone who loves Thor, Black Panther and Dr Strange, I've long since come to the conclusion that bad film depictions of these characters, though disheartening, have not diminished my love of those characters nor how I view them. (Not that I believe this will be a bad depiction)

What I find most interesting in this new Namor is looking for and trying to see how they've adapted the origins and character of Namor into their version. How much of who he is, is there, and how much has been created whole cloth. If they're going to use Namor as a tool for some sort of political narrative or analogy or are they just looking to tell a story that is simply involves Namor. Is Namor in this film because someone genuinely wanted to see Namor in the MCU or is it they just needed a big name to offset the loss of T'Challa or are they pulling a classic "jobbing" by using Namor to make Shuri, Riri and Wakanda look better? The cynical part of me thinks they left Namor's wings intact because having changed so many other things, that changing the wings would be pushing him that much closer to Namor "In Name Only". BUT having said all that, I then think about how they've given Namor his classic 40's style trunks, left his wings and ears intact, have the research vessel with deep sea diving suits, hinted at his conflicted youth and tragic past events, Namor's fierce need to protect his people even though he's different than them (we'll have to see how different), even his piety seems to be there. All of which not only gives nods to his 616 counterpart, but to Golden Age Namor, and makes me believe, hey I can get behind this Namor, despite the drastic changes you're confronted with at first glance. There are all kinds of things that could turn out to be terrible, after all this is literally just a teaser, but there are enough aspects of the "real" Namor that are shining through in the trailer that I cannot help but be hopeful.

[Reviresco]

While I do, and will most likely continue to, have issues with this version Namor, as well as the how's and why's of the way Marvel Studios/Disney decides to do things, it does not mean I am not excited to see our boy on screen and getting some long overdue attention. I know it's the nature of fandoms and the online world, but the extremes people are already at surrounding Namor's depiction in the film are aggravating and depressing, if not predictable. I'm finding the people gushing online over every little thing about this Namor have just as little to go on as the people who immediately dislike the Namor because he's "Mexican" or "brown" or "just looks dumb" or "isn't Namor". I have no interest in ruining anyone's excitement about finally seeing Namor on screen, it IS exciting, but I resent being lumped into some category of mindless, ignorant, racist if I don't immediately love every single thing about this film's Namor and the choices made in it's creation. I think the worst people on both extremes are always the loudest, and it tends to draw lines in the sand that do not need to be there. I've loved this character since I was a kid, I have feelings and opinions on this subject. They're going to be different than yours, and that should not be seen as an evil.
(This isn't a response to anyone here, it's just my reaction to navigating the online world in the past week, most of which I should avoid as much as possible going forward, and just wanted to vent.)

People who love Namor and have a clear view in their minds of who he is and how he should be depicted, like I do, have to come to terms with, and accept, that this is just another iteration of Namor, in a long line of people putting their own stamp on a character that was here before them and will out live all of us, and that we can just enjoy it for what it is. As someone who loves Thor, Black Panther and Dr Strange, I've long since come to the conclusion that bad film depictions of these characters, though disheartening, have not diminished my love of those characters nor how I view them. (Not that I believe this will be a bad depiction)

This is very similar to how I feel. Even the MCU pulls off a great Namor, whose portrayal inspires his own movie or TV show, like Loki, I'm always going to be torn and lament the, yes, diminishment, and even erasure of the comic book Namor from the film universe. This has nothing to do with skin color, as I've repeatedly stated before, Namor can be any race / ethnicity, as long as the actor has the talent and presence. Instead it has to do with him being, well, the foundation, the seminal character who set the template for so much to follow. It has to do with 80 plus years of world building. And even more importantly, his connection to just about everything and everyone in the MU. But as I said before. The MCU had done that already, long before they cast Tenoch or went in this direction, because Feige and Marvel have no appreciation for the character.

I agree, we all have our own personal vision of Namor, and just because it doesn't involve him being Mesoamerican, doesn't mean that person is racist or evil. However, if your first complaint is that it isn't Namor because he isn't white? Well, I have to question your complaint and your understanding of the character, as Namor's about as white as Obama, which is to say, he's half white.

Likewise, people that are claiming how much better the MCU version is over the "lame" comic version? Again, I have to question your familiarity and interest in the actual character.

All that said, the appreciation for the representation is real, and I'm happy for those people. Namor is awesome, and I'm glad you can see yourself in him. I'm happy to share, so more people learn about him and appreciate the character.

What I find most interesting in this new Namor is looking for and trying to see how they've adapted the origins and character of Namor into their version. How much of who he is, is there, and how much has been created whole cloth. If they're going to use Namor as a tool for some sort of political narrative or analogy or are they just looking to tell a story that is simply involves Namor. Is Namor in this film because someone genuinely wanted to see Namor in the MCU or is it they just needed a big name to offset the loss of T'Challa or are they pulling a classic "jobbing" by using Namor to make Shuri, Riri and Wakanda look better?

Come on, now! You know Marvel and the MCU has little interest in Namor. Marvel.com only put up an article on Namor and Atlantis like two days before the announcement! LOL! It's clearly the latter, but I think for the entire franchise. I think Namor was probably on the script or plot before the sad and untimely death of Chadwick Boseman. Black Panther doesn't have much in the way of rogues, and they used the two major ones in the first movie, Klaw and Killmonger. Read the posts. Because of Hickman, most BP fans consider Namor a BP villain. They only want Namor in the movie so BP can trash him. I really wish we could have had Namor debut in another film.

The cynical part of me thinks they left Namor's wings intact because having changed so many other things, that changing the wings would be pushing him that much closer to Namor "In Name Only". BUT having said all that, I then think about how they've given Namor his classic 40's style trunks, left his wings and ears intact, have the research vessel with deep sea diving suits, hinted at his conflicted youth and tragic past events, Namor's fierce need to protect his people even though he's different than them (we'll have to see how different), even his piety seems to be there. All of which not only gives nods to his 616 counterpart, but to Golden Age Namor, and makes me believe, hey I can get behind this Namor, despite the drastic changes you're confronted with at first glance. There are all kinds of things that could turn out to be terrible, after all this is literally just a teaser, but there are enough aspects of the "real" Namor that are shining through in the trailer that I cannot help but be hopeful.

I agree. From what little we've seen in the trailer, I feel pretty hopeful that they will get the core of Namor. Plus, his scenes LOOK awesome. But I don't think it's cynical to point out that they DID keep the look of Namor -- minus that huge headress. And I was actually thrilled to see that -- the green trunks, the gold arm bands, the pointy ears, and the ankle wings! Now if they just remember to USE them and have part of his fighting style involve flying!

[ImperiusWrecked]

There is a huge difference between "I'm not sure if Marvel is handling Namor correctly" and "I hate they picked this actor because the actor is dark skinned Native Mexican Man and that isn't MY Namor" and unfortunately the latter is the loudest and thus many fans will turn on anyone who might object to the change thinking they are racist when they aren't, and valid criticism/discussion shouldn't be dismissed as racism. I've been in and on the edges of MCU Fandom for years and one of my biggest pet peeves is how wildly obtuse fans are when it does come to these changes, and how they won't hear how these characters are in the comics, and sometimes it's like Ms. Marvel where it's not about race, but she is an inhuman in the comics and not a mutant and I greatly dislike the MCU changing her to be as such, and other times it is about race, the Maximoff Twins Jewish/Romani erasure and fanatic mcu Wendy stans are a blight on these characters history and a huge reason why I hate the MCU.

I do think Marvel needs to keep certain elements of Namor so it can stay the character but you all know I have been very vocal about Namor being shown as a Character of Color. And I am very excited for MCU Namor. If they keep the core of his character intact then that is more than MANY mcu versions get. Like look at Whizzer, that was literally used in name only and as a joke rather than as the character, so I'm very glad Namor will be shown as a true King of his people.

But I understand where you are coming from Doombot. I will always love Comic Namor but I'm ready to accept an alternate history for him so long as the character is Namor at its heart.