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  1. #61
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Britain is still a Monarchy (in name only) eventhough the major Political decisions are made via a Democratic Parliament...
    There's no reason why a fictional story cannot be written wherein Wakanda thrives and benefits under both.
    Krakoa and Planet Arakko...TO BE CONTINUED. FOREVER!!!

  2. #62
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That whole exchange is so damn weird. Yíall were halfway through the damn book before you decided to run this by the BP office/the rest of editorial? A child is a product of two characters, instituting such a major status quo shift to a headlining Avenger and essentially pushing him to be a legacy is something that requires that characterís writer to approve.

    Maybe this was a matter of Coates approving early on then Ridley letting Marvel know his plans for his run then the thing getting scrapped. But I canít imagine that the heir to Wakanda would get revealed in anything other than a BP book. The fact that was even considered is disrespectful.

    The X-Officeís writers have been trying to have the mutants colonize Wakanda via Storm ever since this era began and Iím happy to hear someone at editorial had enough sense to say ďThat makes no sense for TíChalla, take that shit somewhere elseĒ. We dodged probably the worst story beat that couldíve occurred to TíChalla lol.
    They already tried on the down low with Kymera. Someone apparently wanted to take another shot at it.

    Like you said, it was a stupid idea but dumb never stopped Marvel before.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I don't think editorial told him to work with that premise, that was totally Coates. But they got on board and they didn't tell him to set things back in place when he got finished. Ridley's run is beginning with democratic Wakanda.

    So while it wasn't editorial's idea, they don't seem in a hurry to put things back like they were. Maybe at the end of Ridley's run, we could see it happening. But then again, if they kill of T'Challa in the comics, it won't matter what kind of gov't they have.
    Ridley has very clearly characterized TíChallaís political leanings as authoritarian. I donít see a world where Marvel completely justifies his beliefs and reverts the Wakandan democracy. Honestly, I think theyíll keep democratic Wakanda but just ignore it. Ridley is only using it to contrast with TíChallaís paranoia and personal isolation. I doubt thereís an editorial mandate that writers reference it and incorporate it into their stories. No one outside the BP books have done that. Hell going off Coates, Wakandaís democracy may be irrelevant after this first arc.

  4. #64
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Britain is still a Monarchy (in name only) eventhough the major Political decisions are made via a Democratic Parliament...
    There's no reason why a fictional story cannot be written wherein Wakanda thrives and benefits under both.
    Anything is possible in a comic book. But I guess having a heroic king/queen leading a country is currently unthinkable.

  5. #65
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeezy561 View Post
    And just FYI if timeless is any indication of the future of the Marvel Universe it looks like to coincide with T'challa dying in the movie Marvel is about to kill him in the comics, which is disgusting.
    Is it though?

    Somehow I seriously doubt that. And even if there's some modicum of truth to that it's a ways off in the future and quite pointless to start worrying about skies falling.

    Best focus on the here and now...at least that's my personal comic-book resolution for 2022, because all things considered 2023 or 2024 aren't guaranteed.
    Krakoa and Planet Arakko...TO BE CONTINUED. FOREVER!!!

  6. #66
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That whole exchange is so damn weird. Y’all were halfway through the damn book before you decided to run this by the BP office/the rest of editorial? A child is a product of two characters, instituting such a major status quo shift to a headlining Avenger and essentially pushing him to be a legacy is something that requires that character’s writer to approve.

    Maybe this was a matter of Coates approving early on then Ridley letting Marvel know his plans for his run then the thing getting scrapped. But I can’t imagine that the heir to Wakanda would get revealed in anything other than a BP book. The fact that was even considered is disrespectful.

    The X-Office’s writers have been trying to have the mutants colonize Wakanda via Storm ever since this era began and I’m happy to hear someone at editorial had enough sense to say “That makes no sense for T’Challa, take that shit somewhere else”. We dodged probably the worst story beat that could’ve occurred to T’Challa lol.
    The fact that so many people are so lazy in regards to Storms development that they simply continue to try and siphon off T'Challas mythos because they can't be bothered to develop her in her own franchise or in a solo series speaks volumes. And yeah, revealing a child I'm an x book would shit ALL over BP for multiple reasons. One how did T'Challa it know when he had access to so much? Two, why would they have a child out of wedlock? Three why would he do something so irresponsible with a finicky person who has shown multiple times over that she is no Ally to Wakanda? This would 100% be no benefit to T'Challa or the BP franchise and simply used as a way to further wrap Storm on T'Challas success, and because they have no idea what to do with her

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    They already tried on the down low with Kymera. Someone apparently wanted to take another shot at it.

    Like you said, it was a stupid idea but dumb never stopped Marvel before.
    Marvel very clearly wants BP to be an X-Men adjacent property ever since Hudlin put T’Challa with Storm and now it’s impossible for T’Challa’s heir to be a non-mutant. Kymera wasn’t much of an attempt because her ties to her father were always irrelevant. Same goes for Azari, who exists in a continuity where Wakanda is destroyed. This kid would’ve had the Hickman seal of approval and could’ve been the worst thing to ever happen to T’Challa so thankfully that idea got turned down.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    The fact that so many people are so lazy in regards to Storms development that they simply continue to try and siphon off T'Challas mythos because they can't be bothered to develop her in her own franchise or in a solo series speaks volumes. And yeah, revealing a child I'm an x book would shit ALL over BP for multiple reasons. One how did T'Challa it know when he had access to so much? Two, why would they have a child out of wedlock? Three why would he do something so irresponsible with a finicky person who has shown multiple times over that she is no Ally to Wakanda? This would 100% be no benefit to T'Challa or the BP franchise and simply used as a way to further wrap Storm on T'Challas success, and because they have no idea what to do with her
    T’Challa said when he annulled their marriage he was GLAD they didn’t have kids. He doesn’t want children by her and has been consistent that while he has feelings for Ororo he doesn’t want to be with her formally. Even garbage ass Coates recognized this when he said they’re not official and can have other boyfriends/girlfriends if they want. Having your first major black male superhero have a child out of wedlock with your first major black female superhero is beyond disgusting and inconsistent with their characterization.

  9. #69
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Britain is still a Monarchy (in name only) eventhough the major Political decisions are made via a Democratic Parliament...
    There's no reason why a fictional story cannot be written wherein Wakanda thrives and benefits under both.
    I think people expect BP to have more political weight and clout as a true monarch though.

  10. #70
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I don't think editorial told him to work with that premise, that was totally Coates. But they got on board and they didn't tell him to set things back in place when he got finished. Ridley's run is beginning with democratic Wakanda.

    So while it wasn't editorial's idea, they don't seem in a hurry to put things back like they were. Maybe at the end of Ridley's run, we could see it happening. But then again, if they kill of T'Challa in the comics, it won't matter what kind of gov't they have.
    I mean that's true I suppose. Everywhere else In the MU it's noted that T'Challa is King and treated as the absolute final say when it comes to decisions of the state, I just hate that Coates BS was integrated into the franchise in such a lazy and terrible way and it will stick because reasons ™.

    Again I'm hoping at the end they will see that Wakanda needs a King who can take action and make the big decisions for the nation,but they don't need him to hold their hands for the day to day and go back to the council that has existed since the stat with varying power.

  11. #71
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Ridley has very clearly characterized T’Challa’s political leanings as authoritarian. I don’t see a world where Marvel completely justifies his beliefs and reverts the Wakandan democracy. Honestly, I think they’ll keep democratic Wakanda but just ignore it. Ridley is only using it to contrast with T’Challa’s paranoia and personal isolation. I doubt there’s an editorial mandate that writers reference it and incorporate it into their stories. No one outside the BP books have done that. Hell going off Coates, Wakanda’s democracy may be irrelevant after this first arc.
    No one outside the BP books references much of anything from the solo.

    But like Ezyo mentioned, we've had decades of stories with Black Panther as king without being Wakandaa democracy. Heck we've had stories that have shown the Wakandan Council and Tribal leaders etc. So why now all of a sudden is it a problem?

    Is it a way for them to introduce new characters, a new set of issues. We start doing stories of democratic Wakanda then we get into the weeds. If T'Challa is still an authoritarian character then why even bother having a democratic Wakanda?

    This is comic books. We have alien empires, Mars is colonized, a purple giant goes around eating planets and Aunt May is still alive. I think we can get by with Wakanda being a monarchy.

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeezy561 View Post
    And just FYI if timeless is any indication of the future of the Marvel Universe it looks like to coincide with T'challa dying in the movie Marvel is about to kill him in the comics, which is disgusting.
    Unlikely. One or makes zero sense for Storm to be BP because she doesn't even belong to the franchise. Shuri already had stories where they made it clear she doesn't want to be BP anymore so that makes no sense either. Also killing T'Challa off in the comics to "honor Chad" will had such a huge shitstorm especially with the Recast movement growing stronger and support for this family that Marvel will CATCH MORE heat and bad press than any monicrum of gains Killings him for MCU synergy. Of Ridleys run is successful than I don't think marvel will try it. If it crashes and burns like Coates?... Maybe. Being in JA avengers though as the chairman also gives him some security too.

  13. #73
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Hickman reveals that an initial plan for Storm in "Giant-Size X-Men" was gonna be that she's pregnant with T'Challa's baby and said baby was gonna be raised in The World. An heir of 2 Kingdoms who would unify them. Start around the 1h38 mark to listen:

    https://www.xplainthexmen.com/2022/0...ze-special-10/
    Dodged a bullet.
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  14. #74
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    T’Challa said when he annulled their marriage he was GLAD they didn’t have kids. He doesn’t want children by her and has been consistent that while he has feelings for Ororo he doesn’t want to be with her formally. Even garbage ass Coates recognized this when he said they’re not official and can have other boyfriends/girlfriends if they want. Having your first major black male superhero have a child out of wedlock with your first major black female superhero is beyond disgusting and inconsistent with their characterization.
    Not only that, but who would this be for? The handful of Storm fans? BP fans don't want this and it's only Storm fans who seem to benefit from this, but it would even be. Good thing. In that podcast what Hickman was saying about the story unfolding doesn't even SOUND good. It makes T'Challa and Storm look bad BUT we know because it's the x office, they would find a way to exonerate Storm of any blame and somehow put it all on T'Challa " He told me he had vibranium laced rubbers on, he lied to me!"

    Or some dumb shit. Also like you said before, the fact that they went ahead with it and were already halfway through the book before deciding to run it B editorial is Super disrespectful to the BP franchise. HE DON'T NEED HER or the x office. He is literally the biggest Solo hero of all time. There's nothing to gain from that. Good thing editorial shit that isht down

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    No one outside the BP books references much of anything from the solo.

    But like Ezyo mentioned, we've had decades of stories with Black Panther as king without being Wakandaa democracy. Heck we've had stories that have shown the Wakandan Council and Tribal leaders etc. So why now all of a sudden is it a problem?

    Is it a way for them to introduce new characters, a new set of issues. We start doing stories of democratic Wakanda then we get into the weeds. If T'Challa is still an authoritarian character then why even bother having a democratic Wakanda?

    This is comic books. We have alien empires, Mars is colonized, a purple giant goes around eating planets and Aunt May is still alive. I think we can get by with Wakanda being a monarchy.
    Weíve gotten references to the IGEW and TíChallaís romance with Storm has been touched on repeatedly. I think itís very purposeful that books like Avengers, SWORD, and Invaders will note major developments like those but not the new democracy. Wakanda being a democracy doesnít fundamentally change the way a BP story operates if a writer just ignores it. The main way TíChallaís ďkinglyĒ aspects are explored is when he does foreign policy (conversing with other nations, giving support to the Avengers, etc.) and mobilizes the military. Nothing about Wakanda being a democracy changes his ability to do those things. TíChalla became the main political backer of Aaronís Avengers and Agents of Wakanda without a single reference to the Parliament. Heís fought off like 4 alien invasions since 2017 without having to debate with any elected officials and the list goes on.

    Iím not saying the democracy is a good idea or that I want it to stick around (I wouldíve torched it and mocked it on panel before going back to TíChalla being the only authority). But I donít see Marvel saying ďdemocracy doesnít work, one man should have all the power and the lesbians that fought TíChalla were wrongĒ. Once you open that can of worms, short of a reboot I donít see then turning back on A Nation Under Our Feet. What I can see is it being ignored. Thatís how Coates did it and how I expect Ridley to approach it when itís no longer needed as a framing device.

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