YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Mantis-Ray]

Okay I just read the new Sam Wilson issue and Sam's preaching about how Wakanda could have done something for their people all this time. Now that I think about it, its kind of a naïve statement to have all these expectations on this one country no matter how advanced to stop colonialism.

It also underestimates how nasty it can be. Britain wanted better trade deals with China but they refused so ya know what Britain did? They introduced opium into the country. The brought down the country by making its citizens addicted to drugs, it got so bad even the nobility and members of the royal family were hooked on the shit. It was absolutely despicable what Britain and thats just one country they battered in the name of their empire.

Then there's Japan they didn't wanna trade so the US sent gun boats to hold villages hostage and force them to trade. And then there's literally everything the US has done to collectively the entirety of South America.

Thats the thing, Wakanda could have helped but it would also mean painting the biggest target on their backs. You can't downplay the dangers of this shit, sure Wakanda is advanced as Hell but you don't need to wage open warfare on a country to bring it down. You just have to be a bit clever and having no moral standards to get what you want.

[Dcnewb]

RIP Harambe

[Dcnewb]

RIP harambe

[Agent Z]

Okay I just read the new Sam Wilson issue and Sam's preaching about how Wakanda could have done something for their people all this time. Now that I think about it, its kind of a naïve statement to have all these expectations on this one country no matter how advanced to stop colonialism.

It also underestimates how nasty it can be. Britain wanted better trade deals with China but they refused so ya know what Britain did? They introduced opium into the country. The brought down the country by making its citizens addicted to drugs, it got so bad even the nobility and members of the royal family were hooked on the shit. It was absolutely despicable what Britain and thats just one country they battered in the name of their empire.

Then there's Japan they didn't wanna trade so the US sent gun boats to hold villages hostage and force them to trade. And then there's literally everything the US has done to collectively the entirety of South America.

Thats the thing, Wakanda could have helped but it would also mean painting the biggest target on their backs. You can't downplay the dangers of this shit, sure Wakanda is advanced as Hell but you don't need to wage open warfare on a country to bring it down. You just have to be a bit clever and having no moral standards to get what you want.

Hell, one of the criticisms of MCU Killmonger's plan is that besides being likely to backfire, it would open Wakanda to all manner of enemies that could destroy them.

I think this attitude comes partly from writers emphasizing Wakanda's technology and military, while ignoring they are only one country at the end of the day.

[Mantis-Ray]

Hell, one of the criticisms of MCU Killmonger's plan is that besides being likely to backfire, it would open Wakanda to all manner of enemies that could destroy them.

I think this attitude comes partly from writers emphasizing Wakanda's technology and military, while ignoring they are only one country at the end of the day.

Really technology and military no matter how advanced does not guarantee invincibility, nothing does. A country is a fragile thing, it can be brought through any combination of reasons.

If wars were decided solely on big-ass guns then logically America should be invincible but we aren't. Hell we got our asses kicked by Vietnam way back when for one due to various factors beyond firepower.

Thats the thing with war, its various factors to take into account like tactics and logistics.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Okay I just read the new Sam Wilson issue and Sam's preaching about how Wakanda could have done something for their people all this time. Now that I think about it, its kind of a naïve statement to have all these expectations on this one country no matter how advanced to stop colonialism.

It also underestimates how nasty it can be. Britain wanted better trade deals with China but they refused so ya know what Britain did? They introduced opium into the country. The brought down the country by making its citizens addicted to drugs, it got so bad even the nobility and members of the royal family were hooked on the shit. It was absolutely despicable what Britain and thats just one country they battered in the name of their empire.

Then there's Japan they didn't wanna trade so the US sent gun boats to hold villages hostage and force them to trade. And then there's literally everything the US has done to collectively the entirety of South America.

Thats the thing, Wakanda could have helped but it would also mean painting the biggest target on their backs. You can't downplay the dangers of this shit, sure Wakanda is advanced as Hell but you don't need to wage open warfare on a country to bring it down. You just have to be a bit clever and having no moral standards to get what you want.

Also, lets not hold fictional countries accountable for real world crimes.

Thor could liberate Syria in an afternoon, but that's not going to stop a single real world war crime.

It's just tasteless to me.

[Devaishwarya]

I personally find the statement Sam made (posted above, and very similar to "Wakanda can cure cancer so...") to be very foolish and lazy from a writer's perspective because
1: As "world outside your window" these stories can be, the more you try to cure all of the world's problems (and they can) the further away you distance yourself from that "world outside our window".

2: Retroactively claiming that such and such could/should have been done defeats and contradicts the purpose of these stories being told.

3: Utterly pointless. Because intellectually speaking a nation like Wakanda have always known that they could help and "do more". They chose not to. As is their right as a sovereign nation. (IRL...the wealthy countries can always "do more and do better", but won't, in fact most choose to do nothing at all and worse). And whether or not Sam agrees with that is of absolutely no consequence...he's not Wakandan and he's not on the Council.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

How?

T'Challa does nearly everything in the movie. He freed the kidnappers in the beginning. He defeats Mbaku to retain the throne. He personally investigated the lead with Klaue which he didn't even have to do(how often do you see a king go on extraction missions personally?). He kidnaps klaue almost entirely on his own(shuri provides driving assistance). He saves Ross, which allows sharing to later rehabilitate him. He fights Killmonger, and sure he is initially defeated, but literslly wills himself to return to the land of the living, gains the alliance of the jabari, outsmarts, and kills Killmonger himself with help from the others... but the killmonger stuff is all him. In the end he starts the wakandan outreach program. In what way did he not have agency? Theres hardly any decisions made in the movie he isn't a part of or at the forefront of.

He has more agency in this movie than Cap does in his entire trilogy.

Ekie is gonna Ekie with leading people back to the OG film

However, I think objectively speaking what Coogler could have done better is make the camera love T'Challa. He did lots of dope stuff, but he didnt get enough hero shots to help sell it. I also think the Ekie's of the world are inherently not intentionally caught up with T'Challa big 3rd act fight scenes not being as compelling. I watched the movie RRR again the other day. And this is essentially what T'Challa should have done at the end of the movie.


T'Challa should have lost that kinetic energy and just whooped everybody purely with his hands at the end. The CGI model stuff made things feel weightless. So even though T'Challa was doing dope stuff it kinda felt like he wasnt doing it. So people dont apply that to his win column like they should.

[dkrook]

That's not the point of my response, JWat
We fans can certainly feel however we want/need to feel. I'm not disputing that. But we are not in the position to make any of the major decisions that those persons I mentioned have/had to, even amidst all of what they themselves must have been feeling. It's not about feelings (ours or theirs...which are just as valid) but having to make some seriously important decisions going forward despite said feelings.

My friend, respectfully, the last part of what you posted is the point upon which all this hangs. There's a long time established, proven IP that when put to the test brought in over a billy! The holders/keepers of this franchise can't let emotions guide them away from what needs to be a very logical decision. T'Challa Black Panther is the creative property that brought us all here, and continues to keep us fans engaged. Why is there any discussion about feelings of directors and actors in a movie for your IP? The world lost an esteemed man and actor. He he has so many that have supported him and what he stands for, and his accomplishments. Marvel is the caretaker of this fictional property their job is to nurture and grow it through go decisions.

[Devaishwarya]

And I agree...100%

I will point out though...our (the fans) ideas about what constitute "good decisions" very rarely align with those of the Marvel caretakers who regardless of how we (the T'Challa/BP fans) feel and think will always do what they believe is in the best interest of said IP.

And with regards to the movie, they (the caretakers, his co-stars and executives) may feel fully justified in that what they are doing is in support of Chadwick and his accomplishments, even if we strongly disagree.

Will that pan out in the film...I'll wait and see.

[Ezyo1000]

And I agree...100%

I will point out though...our (the fans) ideas about what constitute "good decisions" very rarely align with those of the Marvel caretakers who regardless of how we (the T'Challa/BP fans) feel and think will always do what they believe is in the best interest of said IP.

And with regards to the movie, they (the caretakers, his co-stars and executives) may feel fully justified in that what they are doing is in support of Chadwick and his accomplishments, even if we strongly disagree.

Will that pan out in the film...I'll wait and see.

That they are doing (if they haven't tried changing it with reshoots) isn't good for the IP. Removing the title character from their franchise never ends well. See blade Trinity. They turned a guest in his own movie and it bombed that movie.

This is a billion dollar franchise. T'Challa made that happen. People didn't show up to BP to watch Shuri, Nakia or Okoye. They showed up for T'Challa. They were welcome additions and ADDED to the franchise and world, but they are not the draw. They are the sides and T'Challa it the giant Ribeye steak that is the main course.

It's very clear that their decision made so quickly was not the wisest decision

[Devaishwarya]

The T'Challa fans might not be present in full force but those who, like myself, saw the first film and loved the other aspects and characters of it (not just the Black Panther) would probably show up and show out.

Like I said...we will see, when the movie is released.

[dkrook]

Hell, one of the criticisms of MCU Killmonger's plan is that besides being likely to backfire, it would open Wakanda to all manner of enemies that could destroy them.

I think this attitude comes partly from writers emphasizing Wakanda's technology and military, while ignoring they are only one country at the end of the day.

Truth! White western nations are infamous for playing political and military pile on! Look at Haiti, France played full court press, but America had strong support role in backing France. This was against a small young nation that was justified and had recently put the beats on France. I could see Wakanda putting in serious work on initial military assault, but as time wore on and western allies got their stuff together it would be up hill battle.

[dkrook]

And I agree...100%

I will point out though...our (the fans) ideas about what constitute "good decisions" very rarely align with those of the Marvel caretakers who regardless of how we (the T'Challa/BP fans) feel and think will always do what they believe is in the best interest of said IP.

And with regards to the movie, they (the caretakers, his co-stars and executives) may feel fully justified in that what they are doing is in support of Chadwick and his accomplishments, even if we strongly disagree.

Will that pan out in the film...I'll wait and see.

Personally I think Marvel's play is very basic. Play on tragic black male death, and pump up Namor , and there by getting Latino and O.G. fanboys in a 2 for 1. I don't think they are even hiding this. Like Ezyo 1000, Ekie, and others have pointed out. They're moving from the original IP something almost unheard of in this type of business model. The closest comparison is Sam Wilson Cap America, and look at the process that went through, and the time frame we're talking about. Yes November is coming soon. BP 2 will get its coin, but at what cost to T'Challa, and what comes after? Social media loves pointing out Shuri took the mantle in the comics but you, I and others here know full well how that went. She gonna carry 3 solo films??

[Mantis-Ray]

I personally find the statement Sam made (posted above, and very similar to "Wakanda can cure cancer so...") to be very foolish and lazy from a writer's perspective because
1: As "world outside your window" these stories can be, the more you try to cure all of the world's problems (and they can) the further away you distance yourself from that "world outside our window".

2: Retroactively claiming that such and such could/should have been done defeats and contradicts the purpose of these stories being told.

3: Utterly pointless. Because intellectually speaking a nation like Wakanda have always known that they could help and "do more". They chose not to. As is their right as a sovereign nation. (IRL...the wealthy countries can always "do more and do better", but won't, in fact most choose to do nothing at all and worse). And whether or not Sam agrees with that is of absolutely no consequence...he's not Wakandan and he's not on the Council.

Its moments like this I really sympathize with his line in the movie, "I am not king of all people, I am king of Wakanda"

Like yes he is. He is just one guy, one country the size of New Jersey. Its completely unreasonable to hold the expectations of the entire world on this one small little nation.

And besides we already have America as the "international peacekeeper country" and what did that get us? I'm Cuban and all we got from the US is them being chickenshits and leaving us hung to the dry during the Bay of Pigs Invasion.