YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Perry first admitted that there is a different kind of pressure when it comes to reaching the deadline to finish the movie's visual effects, saying that "it falls squarely on the shoulders of studios that set a release date:"

"It falls squarely on the shoulders of studios that set a release date and then work backward from there. The time isn’t enough to live up to the ambition of the project."

Black Panther was confirmed to have over 2,000 VFX shots, including some that are fully CG, such as the aerial shots of Wakanda and its opening sequence. Despite being critically acclaimed, many criticized the film's final battle, specifically about the fight between T'Challa and Killmonger in the vibranium mines beneath Wakanda. Perry agreed with the viewers' sentiments about the skirmish, acknowledging the fact that "it does fail at some point."
“There were multiple things going on in act three. There’s Black Panther and Killmonger mano a mano. There's a vehicle chase through the canyons. There's a big battle on the fields above.”

When asked if that specific sequence was completed in just six weeks, Perry debunked the claims, unveiling that the "fight was always planned and had been through previz." However, Marvel Studios wanted significant changes for the tribal battle above ground:

"The Black Panther/Killmonger fight was always planned and had been through previz, but the tribal battle up above didn't feel big enough. Marvel said they wanted it to be epic like there were hundreds of people fighting.”

Method Studio, the VFX company Perry was working for, was developing the visuals for the vibranium mine fight and the Wakandan battle above ground, with more resources being put towards the fight on the Wakandan plains rather than being equally distributed.

Perry revealed that Marvel told Method that they had too much work on hand, leading to the remainder of Killmonger and T'Challa's fight to be assigned to another studio, DNEG.


However, there was one problem. Given that the two studios utilize different software, this meant that sharing CGI environments or character rigs "isn't a trivial task." As a result, Perry revealed that the studio had to catch up from scratch in "weeks or days," mainly because of the complex software systems that are involved:


“We'd already done tons of development work on the vibranium mines and it all had to be packaged up and sent over to DNEG. Even if you're in the same company and sending it to a different department, packaging all that up and having it work requires a lot of elbow grease.”

Perry admitted that DNEG was caught at a "disadvantage" due to the circumstances, but thankfully, the studio still managed to get it done in time for the film's premiere:

"DNEG didn't have the time to polish their shots as much as other companies who'd been working on the film for seven or eight months, and they were caught at a disadvantage. I'm not saying DNEG is a bad company – they have a closet full of Oscars. They thankfully took it on and it actually got done. We wouldn't have been able to accomplish it otherwise."
https://thedirect.com/article/black-...x-final-battle

Should be noted he hasn't worked with Marvel since.



Damn shame.

[Agent Z]

I guess Dwyane MCDuffie did NOTHING. Other than an entire comic book company and 4-5 cartoon shows.

I believe they would understand that a comic and movie or show are different mediums.

J. Michael Straczynski seems to understand that. Along with the folks doing IDW Star Trek books and everyone else doing both mediums.




Well there are a lot of folks over at DC that would welcome him back if it getting certain characters back on top if it means getting rid of certain writers.

Just because Straczynski and McDuffie pulled it off doesn't mean everyone else can. This thread has had numerous comments pointing out that Coates and other literary writers weren't cut out for writing comics, so why shouldn't people point out that comic writers aren't necessarily cut out for film?

[Ekie]

Just because Straczynski and McDuffie pulled it off doesn't mean everyone else can. This thread has had numerous comments pointing out that Coates and other literary writers weren't cut out for writing comics, so why shouldn't people point out that comic writers aren't necessarily cut out for film?

Some vs. All. No one said all

[Ezyo1000]

Perry first admitted that there is a different kind of pressure when it comes to reaching the deadline to finish the movie's visual effects, saying that "it falls squarely on the shoulders of studios that set a release date:"

"It falls squarely on the shoulders of studios that set a release date and then work backward from there. The time isn’t enough to live up to the ambition of the project."

Black Panther was confirmed to have over 2,000 VFX shots, including some that are fully CG, such as the aerial shots of Wakanda and its opening sequence. Despite being critically acclaimed, many criticized the film's final battle, specifically about the fight between T'Challa and Killmonger in the vibranium mines beneath Wakanda. Perry agreed with the viewers' sentiments about the skirmish, acknowledging the fact that "it does fail at some point."
“There were multiple things going on in act three. There’s Black Panther and Killmonger mano a mano. There's a vehicle chase through the canyons. There's a big battle on the fields above.”

When asked if that specific sequence was completed in just six weeks, Perry debunked the claims, unveiling that the "fight was always planned and had been through previz." However, Marvel Studios wanted significant changes for the tribal battle above ground:

"The Black Panther/Killmonger fight was always planned and had been through previz, but the tribal battle up above didn't feel big enough. Marvel said they wanted it to be epic like there were hundreds of people fighting.”

Method Studio, the VFX company Perry was working for, was developing the visuals for the vibranium mine fight and the Wakandan battle above ground, with more resources being put towards the fight on the Wakandan plains rather than being equally distributed.

Perry revealed that Marvel told Method that they had too much work on hand, leading to the remainder of Killmonger and T'Challa's fight to be assigned to another studio, DNEG.


However, there was one problem. Given that the two studios utilize different software, this meant that sharing CGI environments or character rigs "isn't a trivial task." As a result, Perry revealed that the studio had to catch up from scratch in "weeks or days," mainly because of the complex software systems that are involved:


“We'd already done tons of development work on the vibranium mines and it all had to be packaged up and sent over to DNEG. Even if you're in the same company and sending it to a different department, packaging all that up and having it work requires a lot of elbow grease.”

Perry admitted that DNEG was caught at a "disadvantage" due to the circumstances, but thankfully, the studio still managed to get it done in time for the film's premiere:

"DNEG didn't have the time to polish their shots as much as other companies who'd been working on the film for seven or eight months, and they were caught at a disadvantage. I'm not saying DNEG is a bad company – they have a closet full of Oscars. They thankfully took it on and it actually got done. We wouldn't have been able to accomplish it otherwise."
https://thedirect.com/article/black-...x-final-battle

Should be noted he hasn't worked with Marvel since.



Damn shame.

So they focused more on the chaotic "Epic" which is just standard marvel formula, instead of making the money fight look absolutely stunning, with it's raw and very personal and emotional weight behind every blow. The fight above ground way okay but there was too much going on in act 3 and we could of done with less on the above ground and chase or had that stuff get resolved faster.

That's really ishtty. They took away from the main title character and his fight with the main villain on order to allow the supporting cast and "Epic battle" which ended up hurting the most important confrontation in the 3rd act... It's like we are picking up a pattern here

[Chesterfield]

And I'm sure the same errors in judgment will occur for the sequel. I really want to know the person(s) who actually decided let's focus more on the skirmish between the boarder tribe and the DM/Jabari. They need a slap. But then again the people behind the movie didn't think BP would be a hit so they just said fuck it and did whatever.

Outside of Moon Knight and Doctor Strange 2, Marvel Studios can piss off.

[MindofShadow]

So they focused more on the chaotic "Epic" which is just standard marvel formula, instead of making the money fight look absolutely stunning, with it's raw and very personal and emotional weight behind every blow. The fight above ground way okay but there was too much going on in act 3 and we could of done with less on the above ground and chase or had that stuff get resolved faster.

That's really ishtty. They took away from the main title character and his fight with the main villain on order to allow the supporting cast and "Epic battle" which ended up hurting the most important confrontation in the 3rd act... It's like we are picking up a pattern here

BP was part of the outside fight too though.

It is a marvel studios thing. They just can't help themselves lol. It must test really well to have huge 3rd act climaxes. Shang Chi was the same way... the personal epic fight between father and son got completely overshadowed by a giant cgi dragon fight afterwards. Widow was a personal story that got overshadowed by a explosion falling out of hte sky that the personal fights (task, big boss) was completely overshadowed.

Marvel Studios likes their third acts big, multi faceted with lots of moving parts, and filled with CGI. It usually works just fine.... but they messed up the timing of it for BP in regards to effects.

[skyvolt2000]

Just because Straczynski and McDuffie pulled it off doesn't mean everyone else can. This thread has had numerous comments pointing out that Coates and other literary writers weren't cut out for writing comics, so why shouldn't people point out that comic writers aren't necessarily cut out for film?

Once again you can not say comic writers can't do it when we have had some actually do BOTH.

Larry Hama was doing comics and pretty much building the entire GI Joe toyline and parts of the cartoon.

Coates and his gang were allowed to do whatever because Marvel's editorial did NOT respect the franchise.


Editors thought they could crap on these guys and EXPECTED full support no matter how bad the story was.

Failing to realize WE do not accept crap or feel obligated to support crumbs like so many others do.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Bro its legit sad they didnt do right by Boseman/T'Challa in his own ending fight.

His fight should come before anyone. No lie when watching the Wakandans fight each other it sorta looked like Coogler's heart wasn't in it. Still cool, but not the same level as before. Now we know why.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

BP was part of the outside fight too though.

It is a marvel studios thing. They just can't help themselves lol. It must test really well to have huge 3rd act climaxes. Shang Chi was the same way... the personal epic fight between father and son got completely overshadowed by a giant cgi dragon fight afterwards. Widow was a personal story that got overshadowed by a explosion falling out of hte sky that the personal fights (task, big boss) was completely overshadowed.

Marvel Studios likes their third acts big, multi faceted with lots of moving parts, and filled with CGI. It usually works just fine.... but they messed up the timing of it for BP in regards to effects.

Even with that they didn't have to go FULL CGI with T'CHalla. High Key he could have just wiped out everybody with his own martial arts and kept it moving.

I know they wanted to pay off the kinetic energy but timing was always going to be an issue.

Polish up T'Challa's VFX in the minds and just let him get his Kill Bill on before getting to Killmonger (except with out killing of course)

[Ezyo1000]

BP was part of the outside fight too though.

It is a marvel studios thing. They just can't help themselves lol. It must test really well to have huge 3rd act climaxes. Shang Chi was the same way... the personal epic fight between father and son got completely overshadowed by a giant cgi dragon fight afterwards. Widow was a personal story that got overshadowed by a explosion falling out of hte sky that the personal fights (task, big boss) was completely overshadowed.

Marvel Studios likes their third acts big, multi faceted with lots of moving parts, and filled with CGI. It usually works just fine.... but they messed up the timing of it for BP in regards to effects.

But did all those movies main fights suffer from blatant CGI issues? (Honestly I haven't seen anymore marvel movies since endgame) Because it was pretty bad. Sure it was better with the blue ray but it was still obvious

[Klaue's Mixtape]

So they focused more on the chaotic "Epic" which is just standard marvel formula, instead of making the money fight look absolutely stunning, with it's raw and very personal and emotional weight behind every blow. The fight above ground way okay but there was too much going on in act 3 and we could of done with less on the above ground and chase or had that stuff get resolved faster.

That's really ishtty. They took away from the main title character and his fight with the main villain on order to allow the supporting cast and "Epic battle" which ended up hurting the most important confrontation in the 3rd act... It's like we are picking up a pattern here

Preach

But did all those movies main fights suffer from blatant CGI issues? (Honestly I haven't seen anymore marvel movies since endgame) Because it was pretty bad. Sure it was better with the blue ray but it was still obvious

The other Marvel films weren't as bad cause they learned from BP's mistakes. They know never to drop off of an entire fight sequence to another studio without checking to see if they even use the same software.

[Ezyo1000]

Even with that they didn't have to go FULL CGI with T'CHalla. High Key he could have just wiped out everybody with his own martial arts and kept it moving.

I know they wanted to pay off the kinetic energy but timing was always going to be an issue.

Polish up T'Challa's VFX in the minds and just let him get his Kill Bill on before getting to Killmonger (except with out killing of course)

Yeah, didn't they show in the behind the scenes that Chad and MBJ had a really good choreographed fight that they then just completely CGI over? I would of preferred that over the weightless fight we had to start

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Yeah, didn't they show in the behind the scenes that Chad and MBJ had a really good choreographed fight that they then just completely CGI over? I would of preferred that over the weightless fight we had to start

Yea they did. Its what makes the tribal fight to the final fight so jarring. They replaced them with CG models. You only really "feel" something when T'Challa delivers his death blow.

[dkrook]

asking for "comic writers" to be write scripts is how you get Coates scripting BP3: Return of the No One Man. Bring T'challa back just to make him a boring, ineffectual, depressed, delegator who let his country go to shit lol. You want that monkey paw?


There used to be comic creators around Marvel Studios... Feige hated them bc they were idiots and that was one of hte things dumped when he got away from Ike.

Point taken, with the removal of comic writers from the scenes there will be some element lost being that, yes they are weirdos. However, they also can be the subject matter experts you might need in put layers of nuance to a character. Perhaps good and thorough research should be mandatory for all writers and directors. Like a true seated session where they are educated on history of the character. I don't assume this is always done anymore.

[MindofShadow]

But did all those movies main fights suffer from blatant CGI issues? (Honestly I haven't seen anymore marvel movies since endgame) Because it was pretty bad. Sure it was better with the blue ray but it was still obvious

BW looked legitimately terrible. Made BP looked completely polished. There was no outrage about it because not as many people saw the movie + distracted by covid.

I mean, this is an actual scene from the third act...

Like a true seated session where they are educated on history of the character. I don't assume this is always done anymore.

Frankly, I don't think directors care. That is more Kevin or who ever he has under him job.

TBF, all this stuff that has happened ot T'challa over the decades is because he has no fans higher up anywhere at Marvel to give a shit about it. He has no "point man" which is what Flex was always talking about. No one goes to bat for him and never has.