YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Devaishwarya]

Okay I really want to get this off my chest somewhere, and I have decided to make that here. Something to add about Black Panther's mistreatment by Marvel and the writers. Its a bit of a long one, and I have to start with the Kelly Sue DeConnick Aquaman run.

If you didn't know DeConnick had an Aquaman run a couple years ago following Dan Abnett, and during the end of it she abolished the Atlantean monarchy meaning Aquaman is no longer king and Atlantis is a Democracy. Whats fascinating is her reasons for doing so as she outlined in an interview.

"KELLY SUE DECONNICK ON THAT WEDDING AND ABOLISHING THE ATLANTEAN MONARCHY IN HER FINAL 'AQUAMAN' STORY"



So that's her reason. She found the idea of a monarchy "problematic" and not "politically correct" in the modern era despite the story being a fantasy story centering on a kingdom with no real life basis on anything. Which I think this can apply a lot to potentially why T'Challa gets so much crap thrown his way.

Its very possible that a lot of writers find him problematic to a degree. They don't find the idea of a superhero king progressive enough so thats why Black Panther stories recently have primarily centered on bringing down the monarchy, with the revolutions, characters constantly calling the royalty crap, and just generally treating T'Challa as the lynchpin for all this. Which forgets the longstanding dynamic between Black Panther and Wakanda, where T'Challa is supposed to be the progressive wanting better for his country and having to argue against his nationalistic citizens, but they write him badly because they don't want the king to be the leading progressive figure.

I'd even say writers are stuck in a situation where they like Wakanda, loving the idea of an African country setting to write in but are annoyed that the setting is so attached to Black Panther. Like they most likely know Wakanda spin-off setting comics can't survive as the failure of the previous World of Wakanda books can attest to, so they are stuck between a setting they like versus having to write about a character they are disinterested in.

So yeah thats my 2 cents on all this. Been meaning to find somewhere to spill my thoughts, thanks for reading. Also to anyone dissatisfied with the current direction of BP, if it helps the DeConnick Aquaman run did terribly. Like it was well-received sure by both critics and fans, but sales wise it bombed horribly I hear. The preceding writer Abnett's run while it didn't sell great it sold fine for itself, but whatever DeConnick did drove readers away to such a degree that sales for her book divebombed to never before seen low numbers. Its pretty astonishing in a way.

It's not really astonishing. Kelly's (and by extension Coates) "real life" hot take is human shit.
Nobody wants to read the Shit-show that is American "Democracy" in their comics...we have the news media for that. We want kings and Queens who rule thriving, developed and yes, progressive nations despite what the rest of the world thinks.

Aquaman...and Namor and T'Challa...may be owned by an American Companies and conceptualised and written in America but...they are not American. (According to the evidence, Atlantis predates George Washington's United States of America by a few thousand years) and the fact that she cannot understand that very basic difference does her and her writing no service. Her reasoning (and Coates', albeit for different reasons) regarding monarchies is the dumbest shit I've read in a minute.

If you cannot grasp the fantastical nature of comics where-in a Monarchy can thrive and be a major superpower alongside their Democratic counterparts then you probably should not be writing comics. At the very least you shouldn't be writing Black Panther.

[Ezyo1000]

Okay I really want to get this off my chest somewhere, and I have decided to make that here. Something to add about Black Panther's mistreatment by Marvel and the writers. Its a bit of a long one, and I have to start with the Kelly Sue DeConnick Aquaman run.

If you didn't know DeConnick had an Aquaman run a couple years ago following Dan Abnett, and during the end of it she abolished the Atlantean monarchy meaning Aquaman is no longer king and Atlantis is a Democracy. Whats fascinating is her reasons for doing so as she outlined in an interview.

"KELLY SUE DECONNICK ON THAT WEDDING AND ABOLISHING THE ATLANTEAN MONARCHY IN HER FINAL 'AQUAMAN' STORY"



So that's her reason. She found the idea of a monarchy "problematic" and not "politically correct" in the modern era despite the story being a fantasy story centering on a kingdom with no real life basis on anything. Which I think this can apply a lot to potentially why T'Challa gets so much crap thrown his way.

Its very possible that a lot of writers find him problematic to a degree. They don't find the idea of a superhero king progressive enough so thats why Black Panther stories recently have primarily centered on bringing down the monarchy, with the revolutions, characters constantly calling the royalty crap, and just generally treating T'Challa as the lynchpin for all this. Which forgets the longstanding dynamic between Black Panther and Wakanda, where T'Challa is supposed to be the progressive wanting better for his country and having to argue against his nationalistic citizens, but they write him badly because they don't want the king to be the leading progressive figure.

I'd even say writers are stuck in a situation where they like Wakanda, loving the idea of an African country setting to write in but are annoyed that the setting is so attached to Black Panther. Like they most likely know Wakanda spin-off setting comics can't survive as the failure of the previous World of Wakanda books can attest to, so they are stuck between a setting they like versus having to write about a character they are disinterested in.

So yeah thats my 2 cents on all this. Been meaning to find somewhere to spill my thoughts, thanks for reading. Also to anyone dissatisfied with the current direction of BP, if it helps the DeConnick Aquaman run did terribly. Like it was well-received sure by both critics and fans, but sales wise it bombed horribly I hear. The preceding writer Abnett's run while it didn't sell great it sold fine for itself, but whatever DeConnick did drove readers away to such a degree that sales for her book divebombed to never before seen low numbers. Its pretty astonishing in a way.

This was a good read. I would like to add something though. Your partly correct about them liking Wakanda. But the program isn't just they don't want to see a King a progressive. They don't like seeing a black man in power. Notice how the PM is a woman, as of late all the revolutions and such have been by female characters.

They seem to be the only ones who are "thinking clearly" they star throwing around birthright and other isht while casually forgetting that Wakanda doesn't decide the King and BP by birth. It's through challenge day. And it must be earned through rigorous tests of knowledge, strength, and willpower, then finally they are judged by their character via bast.
.this democratic Wakanda makes no sense because Wakanda, whole technologically advanced, they are xenophobic at worst, and and indifferent at best. So this shift isan insult to the franchise and the removal of T'Challa and gutting of the male cast is also suffering at well because Black women are seen as less threatening

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Going back to reading this. How could Marvel even think about discussing the movie's just 2 months later. That shouldnt have been something worth deciding until like July or August the following year.


Feige/Chapek needed to step in and say we're pulling this movie and we'll reconvene about what we'll do going forward next year (from 2020 to 2021)

[BlackClaw]

Going back to reading this. How could Marvel even think about discussing the movie's just 2 months later. That shouldnt have been something worth deciding until like July or August the following year.


Feige/Chapek needed to step in and say we're pulling this movie and we'll reconvene what we'll do forward next year (from 2020 to 2021)

I’ll do you one better. How could you even discuss the movie mere minutes (remember that’s from Nate Moore’s own admission) after hearing that he passed?

[Klaue's Mixtape]

As far as I'm concerned the IP where it really matters is in a state of disrepute. The solo comic is bs and has been this way for the better part of a decade and T'Challa's cinematic presence or lack thereof since 2018 has been trivialised and rendered insignificant. I, personally will not support the bastardization of a beloved character that has real-world significance and means so much to me personally. Proverbs 13:24... Spare the rod and ruin the child. Well, I'm bringing out the damn belt as and when needed because the wayward handling of T'Challa needs serious correcting.

While it would still be terrible that they've killed him. I gotta say if he was a major player in IW and Endgame it would lessened a bit of the blow. Instead he's truly just a What IF character. Just sad we cant get to see him in his full glory.

[BlackClaw]

And while we’re on the subject of Wakanda and America, why can’t we have more stories of T’Challa interacting with the African diaspora besides the US? Why can’t we have T’Challa adventuring in Brazil (which has the largest population of Black folks living outside of Africa) or heck Ethiopia? The latter would make for some interesting writing since it’s probably the closest we’ll get to a real life Wakanda since they were never truly conquered throughout their history.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I’ll do you one better. How could you even discuss the movie mere minutes (remember that’s from Nate Moore’s own admission) after hearing that he passed?

Well the mins comments makes sense if he's taking the death as seriously as he did initially (Coogler)

Again thats on Nate Moore, Feige, Chapek for even allowing that to happen. You needed to remove the film and just say we'll talk about where we go next year.

[dkrook]

This was a good read. I would like to add something though. Your partly correct about them liking Wakanda. But the program isn't just they don't want to see a King a progressive. They don't like seeing a black man in power. Notice how the PM is a woman, as of late all the revolutions and such have been by female characters.

They seem to be the only ones who are "thinking clearly" they star throwing around birthright and other isht while casually forgetting that Wakanda doesn't decide the King and BP by birth. It's through challenge day. And it must be earned through rigorous tests of knowledge, strength, and willpower, then finally they are judged by their character via bast.
.this democratic Wakanda makes no sense because Wakanda, whole technologically advanced, they are xenophobic at worst, and and indifferent at best. So this shift isan insult to the franchise and the removal of T'Challa and gutting of the male cast is also suffering at well because Black women are seen as less threatening

Very relevant, and to drop a final piece into that narrative. Just look at everyone that's being recklessly aggressive, (T'Challa is shown to be just cluelessly reckless) for no reason are men. No coincidence that in these times white are getting slapped with being dangerous and toxic, while black men are slandered as being toxic.

[DigiCom]

So that's her reason. She found the idea of a monarchy "problematic" and not "politically correct" in the modern era despite the story being a fantasy story centering on a kingdom with no real life basis on anything. Which I think this can apply a lot to potentially why T'Challa gets so much crap thrown his way.

I think that's a little unfair. Her problem isn't really about the political aspect of monarchy, but about the HEREDITARY aspect. Why is Aquaman king? Because his (step-)father was.

Similarly in Wakanda, there have been hints that gaining the throne is not solely by merit, but also by genetic circumstance. In the comics, Priest had it that only T'Challa's bloodline can actually take the HSH, which implies that even if someone else passed the challenges (as N'Jadaka did), they wouldn't be able to rule because as soon as they underwent the Rite of Ascension, they'd be in a coma (or worse).

In the MCU, on the other hand, recall Zuri's speech at the waterfall (emphasis mine):

Is there any member of royal blood who wishes to challenge for the throne?

Yes, in a fantasy story, the idea of being destined to rule has a lot of history behind it, going all the way back to Arthur (if not earlier). And there's nothing wrong with that.

But here's a question to ponder:

"Does the Black Panther need to be king?"

In the Priest era, the throne and the mantle were separate. And frankly, all the fun parts were related to the latter... T'Challa defending Wakanda from threats foreign or domestic, I cant think of any particularly memorable arcs that involved T'Challa acting as a king. No ruling on tribal disputes, or negotiating treaties with foreign powers. Hell, ROSS did more of that than T'Challa did.

So maybe there's a way to satisfy both ideas. Sure, make Wakanda a democracy. Let the supporting cast worry about taxation and infrastructure. That isht is boring, anyway.

The Black Panther, defender of Wakanda, will handle the fun stuff.

[Ezyo1000]

Going back to reading this. How could Marvel even think about discussing the movie's just 2 months later. That shouldnt have been something worth deciding until like July or August the following year.


Feige/Chapek needed to step in and say we're pulling this movie and we'll reconvene about what we'll do going forward next year (from 2020 to 2021)

Or, OR... They could announce no recast less than 3 months after his death, and then later come out and say they decided MINUTES into a meeting to not Recast and throw the character Chad battled Cancer for 4 year's in secret to bring to lifez and then pretend that T'Challa was just another body in THE MANTLE and Wakanda was always the lead. Everyone can miss me with the bullshit that they are trying to honor Chad. This is the most blatant disrespect I have ever witnessed happen to a fictional character who just so happens to be Black and the biggest up of any solo hero in his first go

[Frontier]

Okay I really want to get this off my chest somewhere, and I have decided to make that here. Something to add about Black Panther's mistreatment by Marvel and the writers. Its a bit of a long one, and I have to start with the Kelly Sue DeConnick Aquaman run.

If you didn't know DeConnick had an Aquaman run a couple years ago following Dan Abnett, and during the end of it she abolished the Atlantean monarchy meaning Aquaman is no longer king and Atlantis is a Democracy. Whats fascinating is her reasons for doing so as she outlined in an interview.

"KELLY SUE DECONNICK ON THAT WEDDING AND ABOLISHING THE ATLANTEAN MONARCHY IN HER FINAL 'AQUAMAN' STORY"



So that's her reason. She found the idea of a monarchy "problematic" and not "politically correct" in the modern era despite the story being a fantasy story centering on a kingdom with no real life basis on anything. Which I think this can apply a lot to potentially why T'Challa gets so much crap thrown his way.

Its very possible that a lot of writers find him problematic to a degree. They don't find the idea of a superhero king progressive enough so thats why Black Panther stories recently have primarily centered on bringing down the monarchy, with the revolutions, characters constantly calling the royalty crap, and just generally treating T'Challa as the lynchpin for all this. Which forgets the longstanding dynamic between Black Panther and Wakanda, where T'Challa is supposed to be the progressive wanting better for his country and having to argue against his nationalistic citizens, but they write him badly because they don't want the king to be the leading progressive figure.

I'd even say writers are stuck in a situation where they like Wakanda, loving the idea of an African country setting to write in but are annoyed that the setting is so attached to Black Panther. Like they most likely know Wakanda spin-off setting comics can't survive as the failure of the previous World of Wakanda books can attest to, so they are stuck between a setting they like versus having to write about a character they are disinterested in.

So yeah thats my 2 cents on all this. Been meaning to find somewhere to spill my thoughts, thanks for reading. Also to anyone dissatisfied with the current direction of BP, if it helps the DeConnick Aquaman run did terribly. Like it was well-received sure by both critics and fans, but sales wise it bombed horribly I hear. The preceding writer Abnett's run while it didn't sell great it sold fine for itself, but whatever DeConnick did drove readers away to such a degree that sales for her book divebombed to never before seen low numbers. Its pretty astonishing in a way.

I didn't really care for that (Atlantis isn't America and American ideals don't need to be everywhere) or the fact that it came off less like Mera doing what she felt was right for all the undersea kingdoms and more like she didn't want to be bothered by all the royal drama any more.

But when people think of Aquaman (like with Black Panther) they think of them as kings of their respective kingdoms and Superheroes.

And while we’re on the subject of Wakanda and America, why can’t we have more stories of T’Challa interacting with the African diaspora besides the US? Why can’t we have T’Challa adventuring in Brazil (which has the largest population of Black folks living outside of Africa) or heck Ethiopia? The latter would make for some interesting writing since it’s probably the closest we’ll get to a real life Wakanda since they were never truly conquered throughout their history.

When was the last time the book was actually fun to read?

I think that's a little unfair. Her problem isn't really about the political aspect of monarchy, but about the HEREDITARY aspect. Why is Aquaman king? Because his (step-)father was.

Well, his mom was actually Atlantean royalty. He's technically an illegitimate child but he was still the firstborn so that was his main claim to the throne.

"Does the Black Panther need to be king?"

In the Priest era, the throne and the mantle were separate. And frankly, all the fun parts were related to the latter... T'Challa defending Wakanda from threats foreign or domestic, I cant think of any particularly memorable arcs that involved T'Challa acting as a king. No ruling on tribal disputes, or negotiating treaties with foreign powers. Hell, ROSS did more of that than T'Challa did.

So maybe there's a way to satisfy both ideas. Sure, make Wakanda a democracy. Let the supporting cast worry about taxation and infrastructure. That isht is boring, anyway.

The Black Panther, defender of Wakanda, will handle the fun stuff.

I feel like that was the stance Geoffrey Thorne took where he didn't really have T'Challa do much king or politics stuff aside from a few Superhero moments and then Shuri ends up becoming queen so T'Challa is free to just be the defender of Wakanda.

But I personally think it's a waste for him not t obe king and there's a way of making that interesting and Superhero-y and helping with the world building without getting bogged down in boring politics.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Or, OR... They could announce no recast less than 3 months after his death, and then later come out and say they decided MINUTES into a meeting to not Recast and throw the character Chad battled Cancer for 4 year's in secret to bring to lifez and then pretend that T'Challa was just another body in THE MANTLE and Wakanda was always the lead. Everyone can miss me with the bullshit that they are trying to honor Chad. This is the most blatant disrespect I have ever witnessed happen to a fictional character who just so happens to be Black and the biggest up of any solo hero in his first go

Its all about the $$

Im really wondering if things would be different if Iger were still in charge.

[Ezyo1000]

I think that's a little unfair. Her problem isn't really about the political aspect of monarchy, but about the HEREDITARY aspect. Why is Aquaman king? Because his (step-)father was.

Similarly in Wakanda, there have been hints that gaining the throne is not solely by merit, but also by genetic circumstance. In the comics, Priest had it that only T'Challa's bloodline can actually take the HSH, which implies that even if someone else passed the challenges (as N'Jadaka did), they wouldn't be able to rule because as soon as they underwent the Rite of Ascension, they'd be in a coma (or worse).

In the MCU, on the other hand, recall Zuri's speech at the waterfall (emphasis mine):



Yes, in a fantasy story, the idea of being destined to rule has a lot of history behind it, going all the way back to Arthur (if not earlier). And there's nothing wrong with that.

But here's a question to ponder:

"Does the Black Panther need to be king?"

In the Priest era, the throne and the mantle were separate. And frankly, all the fun parts were related to the latter... T'Challa defending Wakanda from threats foreign or domestic, I cant think of any particularly memorable arcs that involved T'Challa acting as a king. No ruling on tribal disputes, or negotiating treaties with foreign powers. Hell, ROSS did more of that than T'Challa did.

So maybe there's a way to satisfy both ideas. Sure, make Wakanda a democracy. Let the supporting cast worry about taxation and infrastructure. That isht is boring, anyway.

The Black Panther, defender of Wakanda, will handle the fun stuff.

I would say priest run was the outlier though, from the jump it was never hereditary to lead, Hudlin changed it back, Hickman reinforced that, (by having T'Challa telling one of young bright minds that he could feel his great grandfathers pride when seeing the young man) and all the subsequent origins go back to the idea that one isn't born to rule baby birthright. Even the MCU, they are trained to lead, but it's not guaranteed they have to earn the right. That's the difference between Wakanda and other Monarchs.

And Priest had T'Challa doing plenty of King isht. It just wasn't in the boring way of watching a Parliament take of boring political dreg like Ridley did a bit at the start and and Hudlin did right after T'Challa was crowned. But they still had him doing King stuff.

Plus it's fantasy, if you can't wrap your head around a fictional places custom's don't frakking write the place, and don't insert your bias into the mythos to make it what YOU believe it should be (which is a western run of the mill instead of the fantastical)

[Ezyo1000]

Its all about the $$

Im really wondering if things would be different if Iger were still in charge.

Yeah It would of. Black Panther wouldn't of been made at all

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Yeah It would of. Black Panther wouldn't of been made at all

You're thinking of Perlmutter.

Im talking about Bob Iger. Who was in charge before Chapek.