YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Mantis-Ray]

I think you're on to something. If they really cared about Black Panther and Wakanda they should look at maybe hiring a fantasy writer.

DC did hire N.K. Jemison to write the Green Lantern spin-off Far Sector. Worked out pretty well for them them as the book is critically acclaimed due to the combination of Jemison's excellent writing and Jamal Campbell's exquisite art.

Maybe they should commission her to create an AU sci-fi fantasy BP story, that would be dope.

[DigiCom]

DC did hire N.K. Jemison to write the Green Lantern spin-off Far Sector. Worked out pretty well for them them as the book is critically acclaimed due to the combination of Jemison's excellent writing and Jamal Campbell's exquisite art.

Maybe they should commission her to create an AU sci-fi fantasy BP story, that would be dope.

Part of the problem is that, with very few exceptions, DC & Marvel rarely allow pure sci-fi stories in their shared universes. Even books that SHOULD have heavy sci-fi elements, like Guardians or Nova, end up being "spandex in space".

(They have a similar problem with heroic fantasy. Look at what Marvel did with Conan.)

Far Sector was a rare exception. And even then, Jemson had to set it FAR away from the rest of the universe to let it work. As soon as the character got back to Oa, she was a regular superhero again.

[DigiCom]

If nothing else digi. You do indeed provide the best and funniest gifs. I got a good chuckle out of that.

I laugh so I don't scream.

[Anthony W]

Which is kind of weird coming from a company that promotes princesses as much as they do. Then again...Shuri.

Exactly. They gave the character of Shuri a Disney Princess lobotomy! Original recipe Shuri would tear this version limb from limb and pick her teeth with the bones...or Tosin's.

[Ezyo1000]

To me the disconnect is intentional. Marvel hires the writers they want to push the messages they want IMO. Coates and Ridley have both given them what they wanted. Fans are important, but I think the messages they want to push are more important than how some fans might feel about it. I'm sure somewhere there are actually people who like Ridley's work on BP, or who are being paid to say they do anyway.

I can see there is a distaste for writing about monarchies, if not politics in general, beyond the surface level. I could be more okay with getting rid of monarchies or playing them down if you are replacing that with action or better stories, but when it comes to Ridley he's still giving us a ruminating, self-flagellating T'Challa who apparently can't do anything right, but gets all the blame anyway.

I can also see that point you make about T'Challa being in the way of Wakanda. But despite all this new praise and the rewriting of history about how much more special Wakanda is than T'Challa that hasn't been borne out by comics or comic sales. Tosin, as annoying as he is to me personally, has the potential to be a breakout character, but I'm very doubtful he could carry a book 12 issues, and I'm guessing even less. Gentle couldn't either. Shuri perhaps could, but she hasn't had the greatest publishing history, nor have the Dora Milaje on their own. We'll see if the prime minister even gets a one-shot. What's so great about Wakanda without T'Challa?

Tosin is not a breakout. He is one of those characters that is just writing as unlikable. No redeeming qualities, with a self righteous and apparently nationalist mindset.

I have yet to see any one say anything positive about him except that his visual look is cool. Otherwise, they say he's just an a**hole and very unlikable. Which seems to be the trend of the OCs coming out of writer's of BP lately

[Mantis-Ray]

I mean Tosin doesn't really look that interesting to being with. He looks like a generic Wakandan citizen, just with some purple glowy arms.

He has very supporting character energy. I wouldn't call him star material based on looks alone and this is disregarding his one-note unlikable personality.

Like Ommola is an ass of the highest order but at least the skull-faced black suit is halfway visually cool.

[Emperorjones]

DC did hire N.K. Jemison to write the Green Lantern spin-off Far Sector. Worked out pretty well for them them as the book is critically acclaimed due to the combination of Jemison's excellent writing and Jamal Campbell's exquisite art.

Maybe they should commission her to create an AU sci-fi fantasy BP story, that would be dope.

Jemison is definitely a celebrated writer, but I would be leery of having her writing a T'Challa story because from what I read of Far Sector I think her views are more in line with Coates, Ridley, Roxane Gay, and many of the creatives who have been working on BP the last several years. From what I read of Far Sector I did appreciate how pure of a science fiction story it was though. But before I would give her my nod I need to read more of her work and see how she depicts black male characters.

[Emperorjones]

Tosin is not a breakout. He is one of those characters that is just writing as unlikable. No redeeming qualities, with a self righteous and apparently nationalist mindset.

I have yet to see any one say anything positive about him except that his visual look is cool. Otherwise, they say he's just an a**hole and very unlikable. Which seems to be the trend of the OCs coming out of writer's of BP lately

I said he had the potential to be a breakout character. Like you I do think he has a neat look, and his powerset also has the potential to be cool and make him stand out. I don't like his attitude, which I would define as more separatist than nationalist. I think he cares more about the Mute Zones alone than Wakanda as a whole really.

However, his attitude against T'Challa, who represents the patriarchy, is also in line with a lot of what Hollywood is doing today and is trying to sell us as not only proper, but also cool, and that's why I think Tosin could get that push. He's almost a non-toxic masculine figure. The only wrinkle Ridley gives him, and that's to the shred of good writing he still possesses, is that Shuri doesn't like all his broadsides against T'Challa. It will be interesting if Ridley ever depicts this talk Shuri has promised she will have with Tosin because it will put Ridley in a bind.

Shuri seems to be who Marvel is pushing now, but Tosin is his pet character. I think he wants Tosin to be right in all things, but Marvel wants Shuri to look the best. I can only imagine that he'll have to one of them come around to the other's point of view someway instead of having one decisively defeated in either a physical or intellectual battle. Another out of this bind is that Tosin, while almost non-toxically masculine is still male-a Black male-at that, and that makes it easier to be wrong and checked, especially by a Black female character. So Tosin could lose to Shuri and still not lose face necessarily.

[Agent Z]

Which is kind of weird coming from a company that promotes princesses as much as they do. Then again...Shuri.

Disney promotes princesses. Marvel, not so much.

Yet we had Game of Thrones. That had King and Queens.

We have had shows and books about monarchs yet NONE have gotten to the level of toxic like Black Panther has.

And the bigger issue is why HIRE these folks if they have that issue?

Marvel didn't hire someone who hated Conan and he had a long running book about him being KING. Same with Warlord at DC.

I wouldn't use Game of Thrones as a good example as the running theme of that show was that monarchy is bad.

[DigiCom]

Disney promotes princesses. Marvel, not so much.

I wouldn't use Game of Thrones as a good example as the running theme of that show was that monarchy is bad.

In all fairness, EVERYONE is bad in GoT. Except maybe Hodor.

[Agent Z]

In all fairness, EVERYONE is bad in GoT. Except maybe Hodor.

Him and maybe 2 or 3 others.

To get back on topic, maybe the Black Panther didn't have to be Wakanda's leader from inception. Admittedly Lee and Kirby couldn't have predicted how things would be decades from when they created T'Challa.

[DigiCom]

Him and maybe 2 or 3 others.

To get back on topic, maybe the Black Panther didn't have to be Wakanda's leader from inception. Admittedly Lee and Kirby couldn't have predicted how things would be decades from when they created T'Challa.

Lee & Kirby only worried about one thing... telling good stories. Much of what they did was ground-breaking. Other ideas didn't work at all. And some of it simply hasn't aged well.

But the story came first. Something that it feels like Marvel hasn't cared about since Shooter left.

[skyvolt2000]

Jemison is definitely a celebrated writer, but I would be leery of having her writing a T'Challa story because from what I read of Far Sector I think her views are more in line with Coates, Ridley, Roxane Gay, and many of the creatives who have been working on BP the last several years. From what I read of Far Sector I did appreciate how pure of a science fiction story it was though. But before I would give her my nod I need to read more of her work and see how she depicts black male characters.

If not her...


The Tristan Strong book series is out there and now a graphic novel adapted by Robert V of Green Lantern fame. The writer is Kwame Mbalia.

And his book LAST GATE OF THE EMPEROR-noted as being An Afro-Futurist middle grade Black Panther set in a mythical Ethiopia.

[skyvolt2000]

I tired of the uninformed...

https://www.comicbookrevolution.com/...ales-rankings/

Take a title like Black Panther. How in the world can this title be selling outside of the Top 75 by just the sixth issue? Black Panther is such a cool character that now has broad recognition and popularity. This title should easily be a consistent Top 50 title each and every month.

Maybe instead of doing this...

DC Comics has to be completely embarrassed by Naomi’s performance, or lack thereof, in the sales rankings. DC Comics has desperately shoved this character down readers’ throats as Vince McMahon did with Roman Reigns as a babyface. Seriously, DC Comics has pulled out all of the stops to artificially boost Naomi as an incredibly important character in the DCU that readers must like. The reaction has been brutal. Naomi has completely flamed in spectacular fashion. Naomi: Season 2 #4 dropped completely out of the Top 200 rankings. At this point, Naomi is a dead character.

The author should READ why Black Panther is failing instead of bashing Naomi. And if she's in ONE book how is that shoving someone down our throats?

[Ezyo1000]

I said he had the potential to be a breakout character. Like you I do think he has a neat look, and his powerset also has the potential to be cool and make him stand out. I don't like his attitude, which I would define as more separatist than nationalist. I think he cares more about the Mute Zones alone than Wakanda as a whole really.

However, his attitude against T'Challa, who represents the patriarchy, is also in line with a lot of what Hollywood is doing today and is trying to sell us as not only proper, but also cool, and that's why I think Tosin could get that push. He's almost a non-toxic masculine figure. The only wrinkle Ridley gives him, and that's to the shred of good writing he still possesses, is that Shuri doesn't like all his broadsides against T'Challa. It will be interesting if Ridley ever depicts this talk Shuri has promised she will have with Tosin because it will put Ridley in a bind.

Shuri seems to be who Marvel is pushing now, but Tosin is his pet character. I think he wants Tosin to be right in all things, but Marvel wants Shuri to look the best. I can only imagine that he'll have to one of them come around to the other's point of view someway instead of having one decisively defeated in either a physical or intellectual battle. Another out of this bind is that Tosin, while almost non-toxically masculine is still male-a Black male-at that, and that makes it easier to be wrong and checked, especially by a Black female character. So Tosin could lose to Shuri and still not lose face necessarily.

I don't know if he is separatist. Because he had that same attitude when the mute zone people didn't do anything or answer Folasades call. I would say he represents a new generation who *thinks* they are write and have all the answers or can solve the problems because they are "Different" and not stuck in the old ways, but ironically enough, how they ho about solutions are more broad blanket statements that say "Do better" but when asked "thoughts on hoe to go about it" its met with shrugs and "figure it out" replies.

The problem is that he IS toxic. Just not in the stereotypical since that they are trying to paint T'Challa in, but in the hyper aggressive "down with the patriarchy" sort of way in "support" of feminism, woth just enough attitude and idiocy to be "Checked " by female characters whe. He gets to far out of line.

Shuri defending T'Challa was weak. It's not her book. IDGAF about that part because good story telling would put T'Challa, the one tosin has issues with, in a situation where he can show him that his thoughts are off and that he takes for granted just how lucky and privileged he is because the Golden City allowed them to keep their traditions and development in tact by defending them from invaders.

Basically it comes down to this. Tosin IS toxic masculinity, but rather than done in the typical toxicity pointed/ involving directly or indirect at women, it's directed at T'Challa in an attempt to be seen as an "ally" but with just enough ignorance to allow female characters to give him the "Do better" speech