YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Emperorjones]

The problem is even the OCs he had created in the book are poorly developed and 100% unlikable hypocritical A**holes who somehow avoid blame for their actions and instead pile it on T'Challa. Ridley is like Coates lite. Unqualified to write BP, doesn't get the character, can't tell a good story to save his life, and had very ishtty unlikable OCs that don't get call out for their bullisht.

I disagree with you regarding Ridley's qualifications. He has the resume to refute that assertion IMO. But I agree that he doesn't get T'Challa, and I also agree that he hasn't done a good job developing his original characters for this story. That said, I have to wonder if that's the case because of the "impediment" of T'Challa. He has to write around his characters because the book is entitled Black Panther and he has to pay some acknowledgement to the title character. But compared to his Batman work, I don't think he seems to care as much when it comes to the BP characters-his own included. Further, it's like he's using BP to try to explore more abstract ideas I suppose while also flaying (straight) Black males, with T'Challa as a proxy. Curiously, he isn't as rough on Jace Fox in the Batman books. So perhaps Ridley is using T'Challa to get whatever he's dealing with out psychologically or emotionally, etc.

[Emperorjones]

The reason you see that is BOTH companies are looking beyond the comic book store crowd.
They want folks the public knows.

Now many will say these guys are not bringing in readers to the comic book store. TRUE.

This is all about getting some names normal folks KNOW.

Hand this book over to say Jason Reynolds or Justin Reynolds (no relation) or Nic Stone-trades sales won't be an issue. See Moon Girl-folks KNEW about her writer because of other books.
Look at Beast Boy and Raven series-if NOT for them and the other OGNs-DC wouldn't exist in Amazon's top 100 children/teen books.

So as a result DC and Marvel are trying to get the best of both worlds.

Problem is you got a bad Black Panther book that is alienating hardcore fans.

Yet you got trades getting the orders that Priest could NOT get during his run.

I think that's it. And it's not dissimilar to Marvel Studios approach of hiring names like Robert Downey Jr. to play their characters. Especially a lot of their first hires were known for non-genre films so that could bring in more than just comic book movie/comic book reading fans.

As I've been saying, Ridley was not inexperienced. He is an award-winning writer. And Marvel has brought in people from outside the business for quite some time, some well-known and others perhaps among genre readers, or in literary circles. Reginald Hudlin is one (and I also think David Liss was a novelist). I know Jonathan Maberry is a novelist, but I don't know how much comic book writing experience he had before writing BP.

It does seem to be a trend now though that DC and Marvel are looking to outside popular writers, or buzzy writers, in an attempt to bring over their fans to comics. I can't say they are paying much attention to the differences between writing novels versus comics, or screenplays versus comics even. They want the name and the buzz and hopefully the fans that come with it. Just because a person might be a good novelist doesn't automatically make them a good comic book writer, but I don't think Marvel or DC, etc., care as much about those distinctions.

While I could see the new BP writers outselling Priest, I also think they are writing in a much different place pop culturally than Priest was, so while some might pat themselves on the back about how many graphic novels are being sold by writers that some fans feel don't do right by the characters, like BP, I feel these new writers have it easier in a way than Priest ever did when he was writing BP. Even though it's often disappointing or ill-advised, Marvel is promoting BP a lot more than they did Blade, or any Black character in the past, to capitalize off the mass popularity the MCU films gave him. Priest never had anything like that to work with.

I wonder though if a more apt comparison would be what Priest has been doing with Deathstroke, Justice League, Vampirella, and now Black Adam, and seeing how that might compare. But even there, it's apples/oranges comparisons.

[Mantis-Ray]

I disagree with you regarding Ridley's qualifications. He has the resume to refute that assertion IMO. But I agree that he doesn't get T'Challa, and I also agree that he hasn't done a good job developing his original characters for this story. That said, I have to wonder if that's the case because of the "impediment" of T'Challa. He has to write around his characters because the book is entitled Black Panther and he has to pay some acknowledgement to the title character. But compared to his Batman work, I don't think he seems to care as much when it comes to the BP characters-his own included. Further, it's like he's using BP to try to explore more abstract ideas I suppose while also flaying (straight) Black males, with T'Challa as a proxy. Curiously, he isn't as rough on Jace Fox in the Batman books. So perhaps Ridley is using T'Challa to get whatever he's dealing with out psychologically or emotionally, etc.

I have to concur, I have also read his Batman and there treats its protagonist with a greater level of dignity than Ridley does BP.

And there is actually a similar theme of the hero learning to recognize what he's capable and learning to rely on others to make up for it. Though its down without absolutely browbeating Jace and stripping him of all his dignity. Like Jace has his ex-girlfriend Hadiyah do his detective work for him and their interactions are by comparison massively more positive than any of the talks T'Challa has had with Storm. Hadiyah can hold a conversation with Jace without calling him a piece of shit.

Hell Jace is actually allowed to beat the badguy. His first encounter with Man-Ray ends badly for him, he gets beat and has to run away, but an issue later Jace finds his mojo and beats down Man-Ray. Now its not really handled well since nothing about how Jace fought Man-Ray in round 2 is different from the first time but regardless Jace is allowed to feel accomplishment.

Weirdly enough the scapegoat would have to be Luke. He is treated rather horribly by the book, portrayed as a disappointing son and vigilante, and even his little sister Tiff straight up despises him and prefers Jace around despite Jace being gone for well over a decade. Luke's treatment bizarrely mimics how T'Challa is treated here.

[Ezyo1000]

I disagree with you regarding Ridley's qualifications. He has the resume to refute that assertion IMO. But I agree that he doesn't get T'Challa, and I also agree that he hasn't done a good job developing his original characters for this story. That said, I have to wonder if that's the case because of the "impediment" of T'Challa. He has to write around his characters because the book is entitled Black Panther and he has to pay some acknowledgement to the title character. But compared to his Batman work, I don't think he seems to care as much when it comes to the BP characters-his own included. Further, it's like he's using BP to try to explore more abstract ideas I suppose while also flaying (straight) Black males, with T'Challa as a proxy. Curiously, he isn't as rough on Jace Fox in the Batman books. So perhaps Ridley is using T'Challa to get whatever he's dealing with out psychologically or emotionally, etc.

I mean emperor my msn you just proved my point. It doesn't matter what ones pedigree is, of it's bad writing it's bad period
And Ridley had shown a level of incompetence that rivals Coates. That's not to say he is WORSE he isn't, not until he thrown in slavery rape and other garbage, but he clearly had no path or plan, and he can't even be bothered to show consistency between 1 issue from the next. Which given his qualifications, there is no excuse for such shoddy work. He doesn't have the excuse that he is a neophyte to comics as a shield even.

[Mantis-Ray]

I mean emperor my msn you just proved my point. It doesn't matter what ones pedigree is, of it's bad writing it's bad period
And Ridley had shown a level of incompetence that rivals Coates. That's not to say he is WORSE he isn't, not until he thrown in slavery rape and other garbage, but he clearly had no path or plan, and he can't even be bothered to show consistency between 1 issue from the next. Which given his qualifications, there is no excuse for such shoddy work. He doesn't have the excuse that he is a neophyte to comics as a shield even.

Weird thing is if you compare it to his Batman, then you'd notice how "off" his Black Panther is.

Like the worst you can say about I Am Batman is that its dull. Its not spectacular but its not terrible either, its generally a level of bare-minimum competence. Its slow-paced as Hell, at times repetitive (mostly in the Second Son series where most of the story is the Fox family having the exact same arguments with each other ad nausem with little variation), and it tries way too hard to be modern with Ridley using a lot of internet speak the worst of it having Renee Montoya unironically refer to herself as "latinx" (a very controversial word in the Hispanic and Latin American community).

His Black Panther though is just straight up badly written. The story doesn't make any sense and none of the characters act consistently. We start the book with these secret assassin's murdering sleeper agents and halfway all that is completely forgotten about to suddenly shift focus on a revolution storyline. Folsade and Akili's characterization's haphazardly shift between issues with no cohesion and their motivations don't even make sense. It wasn't even made clear who the Hell is rebelling against Akili. Like before Wakanda seems stable for the most part but after Folsade sics the Dogs of War there is suddenly a revolution at their door despite T'Challa being a lone agent with only Shuri and Ommola as his allies. Its like the country suddenly broken down in 5 minutes.

And then there's T'Challa swearing he won't be king again to the Dora Milaje. Its used as this big character moment but that wasn't even relevant before, it was never what this was about. At no point did T'Challa try to regain the throne, his focus was entirely on solving the murder mystery of the sleeper agents. Sure he had some negative thoughts on the new Wakandan government but he still worked fine without the crown. The moment just doesn't make sense and its indicative of just how absolutely off the rails the story became, forgotten what it was originally about.

[MindofShadow]

Weird thing is if you compare it to his Batman, then you'd notice how "off" his Black Panther is.

Like the worst you can say about I Am Batman is that its dull. Its not spectacular but its not terrible either, its generally a level of bare-minimum competence. Its slow-paced as Hell, at times repetitive (mostly in the Second Son series where most of the story is the Fox family having the exact same arguments with each other ad nausem with little variation), and it tries way too hard to be modern with Ridley using a lot of internet speak the worst of it having Renee Montoya unironically refer to herself as "latinx" (a very controversial word in the Hispanic and Latin American community).

His Black Panther though is just straight up badly written. The story doesn't make any sense and none of the characters act consistently. We start the book with these secret assassin's murdering sleeper agents and halfway all that is completely forgotten about to suddenly shift focus on a revolution storyline. Folsade and Akili's characterization's haphazardly shift between issues with no cohesion and their motivations don't even make sense. It wasn't even made clear who the Hell is rebelling against Akili. Like before Wakanda seems stable for the most part but after Folsade sics the Dogs of War there is suddenly a revolution at their door despite T'Challa being a lone agent with only Shuri and Ommola as his allies. Its like the country suddenly broken down in 5 minutes.

And then there's T'Challa swearing he won't be king again to the Dora Milaje. Its used as this big character moment but that wasn't even relevant before, it was never what this was about. At no point did T'Challa try to regain the throne, his focus was entirely on solving the murder mystery of the sleeper agents. Sure he had some negative thoughts on the new Wakandan government but he still worked fine without the crown. The moment just doesn't make sense and its indicative of just how absolutely off the rails the story became, forgotten what it was originally about.

It is even more bizarre when you realize Hunter is finally back.

Like... he is literally the one person I'd believe who could have figured out this spy thing (may have had back channels still open from when he was basically a royal), who would still have people loyal to him (explains why they were good at fighting... they are ex-elite HZ), and someone who might be 1 step ahead of T'challa in this regard because he knows him so well.

ANd this is TOTALLY his MO.... pushing and testing T'challa in his own way because he is pissed at what Wakanda as become.

aND it would be believable Hunter would know Jai was his friend from back then because Hunter would have been around. So Hunter specifically targeting him would make perfect since.

AND THE CAP BOOK CROSSED OVER INTO BP!!!

It is almost like Ridley/Tochi had a plan and then Marvel said "no" and that is why everythign got pushed back and we got the dumpster fire that happened in the second half of the first arc. So he just threw in Akili because he's HZ too, didn't explain shit, and then had him kill himself lol?

[KingNomarch]

Then Ridley's bootleg Tower of Babel arc will likely have these new enemies somehow gain access to T'Challa's contingencies for the Avengers and later be revealed to be lead by Jhai "the only person T'Challa ever loved".

[Vanguard]

I don’t even want to commit his work to memory. I’ll read All Out Avengers and I can’t wait for the one-shot in November. I’m reading that from cover to cover. I’m expecting good things from Hill.

[chief12d]

I don’t even want to commit his work to memory. I’ll read All Out Avengers and I can’t wait for the one-shot in November. I’m reading that from cover to cover. I’m expecting good things from Hill.

I wonder if Hill will build out the concepts he introduced in the Killmonger series. That book was one of the few spin-offs that actually did the world of Wakanda justice and I’d like to see more build up for the unique gods and planes of the Djalia. Hill seems to have a genuinely unique vision for the franchise that seems additive while being respectful of past elements. With his strong voice for leads like Killmonger and the crew of the Outsiders I think he’ll do something special for T’Challa if editorial doesn’t force him to follow Ridley/Coates. Seems like this one-shot isn’t stuffed with crap OCs and wants to do something more character-focused on T’Challa, we need more stories like that.

Hill really focused on that tension of Killmonger feeling like he was rejected by the Panther God in favor of T’Challa. I wonder if he’ll show the flip side for T’Challa. What does it mean to be the favored son of a god? Is it all it’s cracked up to be? What does it all mean to him? T’Challa’s faith is underdeveloped and superficial at best in most stories (especially the recent ones), so if Hill explores T’Challa’s relationship with the mystical more directly that’d be cool.

[MindofShadow]

I wonder if Hill will build out the concepts he introduced in the Killmonger series. That book was one of the few spin-offs that actually did the world of Wakanda justice and I’d like to see more build up for the unique gods and planes of the Djalia. Hill seems to have a genuinely unique vision for the franchise that seems additive while being respectful of past elements. With his strong voice for leads like Killmonger and the crew of the Outsiders I think he’ll do something special for T’Challa if editorial doesn’t force him to follow Ridley/Coates. Seems like this one-shot isn’t stuffed with crap OCs and wants to do something more character-focused on T’Challa, we need more stories like that.

Hill really focused on that tension of Killmonger feeling like he was rejected by the Panther God in favor of T’Challa. I wonder if he’ll show the flip side for T’Challa. What does it mean to be the favored son of a god? Is it all it’s cracked up to be? What does it all mean to him? T’Challa’s faith is underdeveloped and superficial at best in most stories (especially the recent ones), so if Hill explores T’Challa’s relationship with the mystical more directly that’d be cool.

Yeah, for as much as I wanted "more" from that Killmonger book... the Wakandan parts were outstanding

[chief12d]

It is even more bizarre when you realize Hunter is finally back.

Like... he is literally the one person I'd believe who could have figured out this spy thing (may have had back channels still open from when he was basically a royal), who would still have people loyal to him (explains why they were good at fighting... they are ex-elite HZ), and someone who might be 1 step ahead of T'challa in this regard because he knows him so well.

ANd this is TOTALLY his MO.... pushing and testing T'challa in his own way because he is pissed at what Wakanda as become.

aND it would be believable Hunter would know Jai was his friend from back then because Hunter would have been around. So Hunter specifically targeting him would make perfect since.

AND THE CAP BOOK CROSSED OVER INTO BP!!!

It is almost like Ridley/Tochi had a plan and then Marvel said "no" and that is why everythign got pushed back and we got the dumpster fire that happened in the second half of the first arc. So he just threw in Akili because he's HZ too, didn't explain shit, and then had him kill himself lol?

Marvel might just be thinking people will put two and two together like we are lol. The Hatut Zeraze are acting up in Wakanda at the same time White Wolf’s causing trouble for the United States. Anyone who knows these characters will know they’re connected somehow so maybe they feel there’s no need to say it out loud.

But that’s weird, not everyone knows about the Hatut Zeraze and coincidences do happen, so why not even hint at it? It wouldn’t have been hard to show Akili saluting Hunter via hologram towards the end of the first arc. Hunter could’ve been shown in Sam’s book getting a message from the HZ in Wakanda as the coup was going down, these books are essentially happening at the same pace.

It’s such bizarre storytelling. The only reason I could think they’re not making that connection is because they want it to be a reveal. Maybe the upcoming Wakanda mini will have a subplot about uncovering who was really behind the Hatut Zeraze coup. Or the two titles aren’t really meant to be connected at all. It just so happened both Tochi and Ridley had ideas for an arc featuring the Hatut Zeraze. That’s hard to believe though, there’s way too much synergy between the Cap and BP books rn for there not to be some kind of collaboration going on imo.

[chief12d]

Yeah, for as much as I wanted "more" from that Killmonger book... the Wakandan parts were outstanding

Hill was trying to mix the scrappy, hotep revolutionary energy of movie Killmonger with the cunning warlord version from the comics while telling a modernized origin. I wanted more establishing where Killmonger got his training and ruthless grit against T’Challa, but I just accept this was more of a retelling of N’Jadaka’s early years. It’s not so much about him becoming a villain, more explaining the circumstances that even put him in a position to make that choice.

In hindsight I thought the character work was insanely strong, especially compared to the lack of depth he was getting in the main book despite being the big villain of that entire volume. So if Hill can flesh out T’Challa’s personal relationship with faith while developing concepts like D’Yshalah and K’Liluna I think we got a King In Black-level one shot.

[Ezyo1000]

Yeah, for as much as I wanted "more" from that Killmonger book... the Wakandan parts were outstanding

Yeah the Kilmonger book was only hampered by hill using bullseye and Fisk in the story. Had he created OCs to go with Eriks group, to drive home just how DANGEROUS he is, maybe had the group actually survive, maybe splinter at the end due to due to unforseen circumstances, or just survive and retcon them in as some new rogues for T'Challa, that would of been Cool. Too much isht happens in New York and there's plenty of other places they could of set up shop in.

[talentedbutnot]

That resume shouldn't get you black panther tho. Thats the fundamental problem.

That resume wouldnt even get you scarlet spider lol

Until they treat BP like would treat a b list white character, his runs are always gonna be uneven as hell.

Right now the criteria is "name in black nerd community"

Every "black nerd" BUT Geoffrey Thorne. How he got the job a couple of times at all is crazy when you think about it. He's been Team T'Challa and the only one seemingly not on board with the erasure of the character.

[XenobladerX]

I tried to look for such moments where he would utter those words in the past, but to no avail. Once in a while, he will demand respect or assert his authority though.

Like night and day from what we're getting now. Current Marvel and the writers they keep pushing on these books are terrified of showing a strong, confident and badass T'Challa.