YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[MindofShadow]

Am I the only one who's not the least bit interested in Tchalla Jr? Marvel recasting "616" MCU panther is gone in the water but at this point I'd take a variant version that's more like his comic counterpart (none Coates/Ridley though.) rather than a "fake" Tchalla. I don't know, it feels like a slap in the face to me.

Ive said it doesn't really interest me dince the first rumor

I was recast or bust

Only positive of keeping some sorrt of tchalla around in the mcu is that it will keep comic, cartoon. And merch tchalla around

[chief12d]

Ive said it doesn't really interest me dince the first rumor

I was recast or bust

Only positive of keeping some sorrt of tchalla around in the mcu is that it will keep comic, cartoon. And merch tchalla around

That’s all that ever mattered to me. To be clear, I think this son situation is stupid and a slap in the face. BUT it is “a” T’Challa and that will force T’Challa to remain relevant at Marvel across all mediums which possibly wouldn’t be the case if they got rid of that name completely. The movies are what they are but frankly if T’Challa is the one headlining the video game and it’s half decent we’re likely gonna get a better and more accurate version than we ever would’ve gotten in the MCU.

Which has been the case for most of Marvel’s single player AAA experiences, Spider-Man PS4 is better than Tom Holland’s and the Guardians game does a better job with the team than the movies. That opportunity is more available to T’Challa than it was if he died with no legacy left to continue in some way. The son at least solidifies T’Challa’s ongoing relevance to the franchise and will ward off attempts at radical synergy to prop up his sidekicks. It preserves his place in the comics and animation better than if he was just erased and the movies completely moved on. So that’s a win no matter how you slice it. And it does guarantee the pendulum eventually swings back to him in 5-7ish years or whenever Marvel lets him take back his rightful place as lead.

It’s far from ideal but there were much worse ways this could’ve turned out for the character.

[Emperorjones]

Derrick isn't a film maker. And everyone grieves differently. My father died in my arms nearly 3 years ago without warning and I still get emotional about it. And I'm not an emotional person.

They cant let Derrick make creative decisions for a franchise that became way bigger than boseman or anyone else expected. His performance resonated with millions and will continue to, and those folks needed to see him sent off as well. The GA would've soundly rejected anything short of that I think.

You're right that Derrick Boseman isn't a filmmaker, and also that everyone grieves in their own way. The problem I have with this reply though is that supporters of not recasting are bolstering their decision on the close (or supposedly close) personal relationship the cast and crew had with Chadwick Boseman, with the implication being that that gives them more emotional/moral authority for their creative decisions. However, if Boseman's own brother supported recasting, wouldn't his blood relationship trump that of friends and work colleagues? Now one can then make the argument that sometimes friends are closer than family, but that's not an argument I've seen being made, it's more likely that what Derrick Boseman said is ignored as the anti-recasters just double down on how close the cast and crew were to Boseman, so therefore the creative decisions should not be questioned by anyone who has a heart.

I can also agree with the idea that the franchise became way bigger than Boseman, and that includes the character of T'Challa. Just like how other iconic characters transcended the actors (sometimes multiple actors) who played them. And because of that, I still wish they had not just dismissed recasting as quickly as they did.

I don't agree that the general audience would've rejected a recasting. There would be hand wringing, griping, and complaining, just like there is now with some among the recast side (myself included), but for the most part, the audience would accept whatever Disney/Marvel gave them. I think audiences are savvy enough to grasp why a recast had to happen and would be amenable to it. I don't see many frothing at the mouth that Disney quickly relatively recast Thunderbolt Ross despite the decades William Hurt gave to the business.

[Chesterfield]

What's funny to me with this whole recasting business is, look at James Bond. Yes, there have been 6 official actors to take in the role (Connery was/is the GOAT), however, the part I want to highlight is, Connery left after his 5th outing, Lazenby was cast, did one film (On Her Majesty's Secret Service) which is a top 3 Bond film, decided he wasn't going to come back for more, Connery comes back to the role for Diamonds Are Forever strictly for the unheard of payday of $1Million and then leaves again for Roger Moore to take over for the next film.

My point is, sure a death wasn't involved but the casting process of the lead character was done with such a "who gives AF" attitude and audiences bought it. A lot of people don't realise just how much and significant a big deal Connery was as Bond. If Connery can be replaced then I'm sorry any actor can. I don't care if it's Indiana Jones or T'Challa if the performance is strong and the film good enough, give audiences enough time to be aware of the casting and by the time the f8lm is ready to come out, audiences will at the very least give the actor a chance.

Look at Daniel Craig, countless people were ready to die on the CraigNotBond hill including tge media...Casino Royale comes out and not only do they put outva formal apology to Craig but they start sausage riding him and over tge past 17 years many people regard him as the best Bond ever.

Chadwick is the only celebrity who died in which I cried. I'm talking ugly cried and I didn't even know the man and as much as I acknowledge him as great man, actor and T'Challa there are other actors who could have replaced such an essential character. I enjoyed WF fir what it was, however, the film talks out of both sides from its mouth. On one side it says, by killing T'Challa we declare he's not all that essential. On the other side, they're saying let's give him a son and also call him T'Challa because we need a T'Challa character which is essential.

A very long story short, the franchise NEEDS T'Challa. Chadwick was T'Challa and both the man and character are now dead so what needs to be done to rectify killingvoff such an integral character. Son? Variant? That's a headache fir Marvel Studios, they just need to figure that shit out and get it sorted.

[Emperorjones]

Finished Bryan Hill's Black Panther: Unconquered #1 the other day. I found it a breath of fresh air compared to the current Panther run.

[BlackClaw]

Finished Bryan Hill's Black Panther: Unconquered #1 the other day. I found it a breath of fresh air compared to the current Panther run.

I really hope Hill gets a chance to expand on all this in the future. There’s just way too much potential here for this to just be a one and done.

[MindofShadow]

That’s all that ever mattered to me. To be clear, I think this son situation is stupid and a slap in the face. BUT it is “a” T’Challa and that will force T’Challa to remain relevant at Marvel across all mediums which possibly wouldn’t be the case if they got rid of that name completely. The movies are what they are but frankly if T’Challa is the one headlining the video game and it’s half decent we’re likely gonna get a better and more accurate version than we ever would’ve gotten in the MCU.

Which has been the case for most of Marvel’s single player AAA experiences, Spider-Man PS4 is better than Tom Holland’s and the Guardians game does a better job with the team than the movies. That opportunity is more available to T’Challa than it was if he died with no legacy left to continue in some way. The son at least solidifies T’Challa’s ongoing relevance to the franchise and will ward off attempts at radical synergy to prop up his sidekicks. It preserves his place in the comics and animation better than if he was just erased and the movies completely moved on. So that’s a win no matter how you slice it. And it does guarantee the pendulum eventually swings back to him in 5-7ish years or whenever Marvel lets him take back his rightful place as lead.

It’s far from ideal but there were much worse ways this could’ve turned out for the character.

Creatively, ill be more crushed if the BP game isn't tchalla than him being writen out of mcu

That video game being tchalla (and good) will be huge for the character

[bat39]

You're right that Derrick Boseman isn't a filmmaker, and also that everyone grieves in their own way. The problem I have with this reply though is that supporters of not recasting are bolstering their decision on the close (or supposedly close) personal relationship the cast and crew had with Chadwick Boseman, with the implication being that that gives them more emotional/moral authority for their creative decisions. However, if Boseman's own brother supported recasting, wouldn't his blood relationship trump that of friends and work colleagues? Now one can then make the argument that sometimes friends are closer than family, but that's not an argument I've seen being made, it's more likely that what Derrick Boseman said is ignored as the anti-recasters just double down on how close the cast and crew were to Boseman, so therefore the creative decisions should not be questioned by anyone who has a heart.

I can also agree with the idea that the franchise became way bigger than Boseman, and that includes the character of T'Challa. Just like how other iconic characters transcended the actors (sometimes multiple actors) who played them. And because of that, I still wish they had not just dismissed recasting as quickly as they did.

I don't agree that the general audience would've rejected a recasting. There would be hand wringing, griping, and complaining, just like there is now with some among the recast side (myself included), but for the most part, the audience would accept whatever Disney/Marvel gave them. I think audiences are savvy enough to grasp why a recast had to happen and would be amenable to it. I don't see many frothing at the mouth that Disney quickly relatively recast Thunderbolt Ross despite the decades William Hurt gave to the business.

I think one thing that's getting lost in this debate is that recasting the character for Wakanda Forever and recasting the character in the future are two totally separate decisions. Derrick believes that the character should be recasted, and he's right. Coogler, and the rest of TPTB are also right in wanting to honor Chadwick Boseman's specific take on the character by not recasting T'Challa in this movie. Especially when it is a viable course of action, from a commercial point of view, given that general audiences loved the world of Wakanda and he supporting cast and could accept a film with those elements on its own merits even sans T'Challa.

I don't think William Hurt as General Ross is a comparable situation (IIRC, isn't a major reason why they brought Ross back for Civil War simply that they wanted to make it clear that The Incredible Hulk was still MCU canon and relevant?) I don't even think Edward Norton being replaced by Mark Ruffalo is a comparable situation (TIH was better received than the 2003 film but didn't exactly set the world on fire).

[bat39]

Finished Bryan Hill's Black Panther: Unconquered #1 the other day. I found it a breath of fresh air compared to the current Panther run.

Happened to read it too recently. Found it interesting that the whole science/rationality vs. religion debate in the one-shot was kinda low-key explored in the film too, albeit in a very different way.

[chief12d]

Creatively, ill be more crushed if the BP game isn't tchalla than him being writen out of mcu

That video game being tchalla (and good) will be huge for the character

Yea the description we initially got from the scooper was odd but we got to remember this guy barely knows comics and the game is probably in the insanely early stages of development. It would’ve been nice to get a confirmation who the Panther will be but the plot sounds like T’Challa’s origins in several past adaptations. Not to mention T’Challa is still in the MCU so there’s no need to do a BP solo game about anyone other than the definitive version when all the other games are using the most popular incarnations of their characters. By the time the game comes out in 3-5 years it’s possible T’Challa Jr. might only be a movie or two away from taking back the mantle anyway lol.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a bit of player choice with how T’Challa looks (change up hairstyles, physique, etc.) but I’m fairly certain he’ll be the main character. And based on the public backlash to the rumor that the Panther wouldn’t be him, if EA wasn’t already using him they ideally would be reconsidering it now. Just for PR’s sake. The cultural gravity of this franchise is gonna weigh heavy on them so if they even look to be exploiting Chadwick’s death or unfairly sidelining Marvel’s most iconic black character they’ll have an even harder PR battle than they did by just making the game.

[Devaishwarya]

I think one thing that's getting lost in this debate is that recasting the character for Wakanda Forever and recasting the character in the future are two totally separate decisions. Derrick believes that the character should be recasted, and he's right. Coogler, and the rest of TPTB are also right in wanting to honor Chadwick Boseman's specific take on the character by not recasting T'Challa in this movie. Especially when it is a viable course of action, from a commercial point of view, given that general audiences loved the world of Wakanda and he supporting cast and could accept a film with those elements on its own merits even sans T'Challa.

I don't think William Hurt as General Ross is a comparable situation (IIRC, isn't a major reason why they brought Ross back for Civil War simply that they wanted to make it clear that The Incredible Hulk was still MCU canon and relevant?) I don't even think Edward Norton being replaced by Mark Ruffalo is a comparable situation (TIH was better received than the 2003 film but didn't exactly set the world on fire).

Exacfockintatiously.
And especially the underlined.

[robreedwrites]

I think one thing that's getting lost in this debate is that recasting the character for Wakanda Forever and recasting the character in the future are two totally separate decisions. Derrick believes that the character should be recasted, and he's right. Coogler, and the rest of TPTB are also right in wanting to honor Chadwick Boseman's specific take on the character by not recasting T'Challa in this movie. Especially when it is a viable course of action, from a commercial point of view, given that general audiences loved the world of Wakanda and he supporting cast and could accept a film with those elements on its own merits even sans T'Challa.

I don't think William Hurt as General Ross is a comparable situation (IIRC, isn't a major reason why they brought Ross back for Civil War simply that they wanted to make it clear that The Incredible Hulk was still MCU canon and relevant?) I don't even think Edward Norton being replaced by Mark Ruffalo is a comparable situation (TIH was better received than the 2003 film but didn't exactly set the world on fire).

I think the person is referring to the fact William Hurt's Thunderbolt Ross has been recast immediately with Harrison Ford. In the comics there are other generals that could "honor" Thunderbolt Ross, and one of them even became a Red Hulk in the comics (Robert Maverick).

The only reason they aren't really comparable is that the cast and crew of Thunderbolts was seemingly not as emotionally attached to Hurt as the BP cast/crew was to Boseman. But it's the most comparable situation within the MCU franchise.

[chief12d]

I really hope Hill gets a chance to expand on all this in the future. There’s just way too much potential here for this to just be a one and done.

I wonder if he made a pitch for the BP solo and is using this one shot to set the foundation for future stories he would like to do. I noticed in the KIB issue by Thorne that he made reference to the principles of the Panther Tribe, which is something he seemed to carry over from his original pitch back in 2016.

Hill probably has one of the clearest visions for T’Challa’s franchise that we’ve seen recently. He seems to want to explore the mysticism of Wakanda and T’Challa’s relationship to it, which is really exciting given how boring everything has been with his character lately. Lost gods and ancient weapons is exactly the kind of pulpy feel I could get behind in a future mini or ongoing. If it gets him away from Wakanda and actually interacting with good characters even better.

[BlackClaw]

That’s all that ever mattered to me. To be clear, I think this son situation is stupid and a slap in the face. BUT it is “a” T’Challa and that will force T’Challa to remain relevant at Marvel across all mediums which possibly wouldn’t be the case if they got rid of that name completely. The movies are what they are but frankly if T’Challa is the one headlining the video game and it’s half decent we’re likely gonna get a better and more accurate version than we ever would’ve gotten in the MCU.

Which has been the case for most of Marvel’s single player AAA experiences, Spider-Man PS4 is better than Tom Holland’s and the Guardians game does a better job with the team than the movies. That opportunity is more available to T’Challa than it was if he died with no legacy left to continue in some way. The son at least solidifies T’Challa’s ongoing relevance to the franchise and will ward off attempts at radical synergy to prop up his sidekicks. It preserves his place in the comics and animation better than if he was just erased and the movies completely moved on. So that’s a win no matter how you slice it. And it does guarantee the pendulum eventually swings back to him in 5-7ish years or whenever Marvel lets him take back his rightful place as lead.

It’s far from ideal but there were much worse ways this could’ve turned out for the character.

True. Literally the only other option was outright erasure, so while T’Junior wasn’t what I wanted or expected I’ll happily accept him if this is what’s keeping T’Challa from getting screwed in other mediums.

[dkrook]

There's another factor you are ignoring here: Boseman was the first person to play T'Challa in live action.

Why does that matter in the conversation of the ability to recast the role?