YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I think they would have advertised "tchalla dealing with the blip" and it actually woudl have connected with MCU fanas more. It is a common complaint on nerd board that the blip was here and gone and it barely means anything to anyone.

but, i do agree to an extent.

But cutting 40 mins of sadness alone would have helped the BO. And just beign able to market it as a moviie instead of a funeral event.

But if the movie was barebones the same without the funeral and ended the same way... I would be livid as a tchalla fan. Like, pitchforks, F coogler, livid. If someone kilsl your mom, in cold blood, no brainwash stuff.. that man has got to die or live in a furnace in wakanda the rest of his life.

Yea I thought it worked for Shuri. Cause she's struggling just to keep control of Wakanda and its people. I would have had a major problem with it if it was T'Challa cause he should be well prepared and not taking L's like that.

Its like I said. The film has so much reverence for T'Challa that it works as a determent for a superhero film. Its kinda like people were saying here and they used it for the film. Wakanda would suffer, Wakanda would fail without T'Challa and in a lot of ways it did.

I do admit that your rephrasing of it as "Post Blip" could have intrigued audiences though.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Can yall imagine if they DIDNT do Namor?

You would think Feige and now Iger would say lets not take any chances and bring back/or age up T'Challa.

[Chesterfield]

This wasn't just Feige's choice Coogler wanted this as well.

So? I didn't single Feige out. I said Marvel Studios, which Coogler is a paid employee.

Also, the idea of it bring a disaster is essentially all these hot take videos on youtube. You act like MCU is gonna end up like the Universal films soon.

I don't care about youtu.be hot takes. I've formed my iwn decision based on what I've seen and how Marvel Atudios have responded to the feedback of Phase 4. Phase 4 has largely been a creative mess and critically the weakest phase of the MCU.

Didn't NWH almost do 2 billion? DS2 at least outgroosed the original.

And if you use your brain you'll easily figure out the obvious as to why these films did so well at the BO.

[Ezyo1000]

I will say I doubt the movie would have made as much as the first even if T'Challa had been in it.

Like the original is such a lightning in a bottle situation that it was a reoccurring topic whether the sequel would have experianced a drop or not. I mean it could have maybe, its all theoretical. I was in these discussions several times, and there was never a question of if it was gonna be successful, but how successful.

At the very least WF is successful. Though not as successful as the first one which is interesting as as said NWH made almost 2 billion so its not like Marvel is unable to make a billion dollar movie again. Which granted that movie got by on massive nostalgia/fanservice points. Pretty much every film is at a huge disadvantage because not many Marvel characters had a lot of film installments before the MCU.

I'm not saying it would have made as much as the first (although if Chad was still alive it would have released during the summer and had lots of legs still, and with T'Challa being in it via Recast, if they were smart they could have delayed the movie to allow the time to grieve).

Even without Russia or China Bp1 made a billion. It didn' NEED those places because others stepped up, it hit with excellence, and the second focusing on T'Challas actions and CONTINUING the story instead of retreading. It made bot surpass the first but it would hit 1 billion at least.

Remember at their core, they are well-written and obviously well acted movies. And I would like to think they would have learned their lesson from the first, especially given they got an additional 50 million for the budget

[Chesterfield]

I'm not saying it would have made as much as the first (although if Chad was still alive it would have released during the summer and had lots of legs still, and with T'Challa being in it via Recast, if they were smart they could have delayed the movie to allow the time to grieve).

Even without Russia or China Bp1 made a billion. It didn' NEED those places because others stepped up, it hit with excellence, and the second focusing on T'Challas actions and CONTINUING the story instead of retreading. It made bot surpass the first but it would hit 1 billion at least.

Remember at their core, they are well-written and obviously well acted movies. And I would like to think they would have learned their lesson from the first, especially given they got an additional 50 million for the budget

Precisely this!

[BlackClaw]

What’s notable is that this lady was against recasting before seeing the movie but now thinks differently after seeing it.

[Ezyo1000]

I think they would have advertised "tchalla dealing with the blip" and it actually woudl have connected with MCU fanas more. It is a common complaint on nerd board that the blip was here and gone and it barely means anything to anyone.

but, i do agree to an extent.

But cutting 40 mins of sadness alone would have helped the BO. And just beign able to market it as a moviie instead of a funeral event.

But if the movie was barebones the same without the funeral and ended the same way... I would be livid as a tchalla fan. Like, pitchforks, F coogler, livid. If someone kilsl your mom, in cold blood, no brainwash stuff.. that man has got to die or live in a furnace in wakanda the rest of his life.

I don't think Ramonda would have died if Chad was still alive. I honestly don't.

Riri would have been simply a Cameo, maybe she would have jump started the conflict a little but I also feel the movie would be completely different direction, and the whole the movie would be the same that Coogler siad I kinda don't believe. You don't change the script 6 times to say it was still the same movie.

The movie would not be a funeral fest and depression and dealing with grieve the entire time. Maybe some points but a lot LESS prevalent.

I feel the MA would not have been introduced because Wakanda would have it's BP still, and the conflict likely would not have tailored to making Wakanda look like idiot's to up the stakes for talocan. They could be dangerous because T'Challa feels the difference in power and had the ability to fight it.

We likely WOULD have seen T'Challa actually use his genius to beat Namor in a similar vein, OR better yet , T'Challa AND Shuri would work together in Riri's place to find the strategy to beat him. As i feel that is why the line was thrown about T'Challa teaching Shuri everything she knows is due to the complaint that T'Challas genius was heavily downplayed.

THIS would be 1000% different and been vastly more successful because they would have talked T'CHALLA Not a mans death to reinforce and depress people for 2 years

[chief12d]

I don't think Ramonda would have died if Chad was still alive. I honestly don't.

Riri would have been simply a Cameo, maybe she would have jump started the conflict a little but I also feel the movie would be completely different direction, and the whole the movie would be the same that Coogler siad I kinda don't believe. You don't change the script 6 times to say it was still the same movie.

The movie would not be a funeral fest and depression and dealing with grieve the entire time. Maybe some points but a lot LESS prevalent.

I feel the MA would not have been introduced because Wakanda would have it's BP still, and the conflict likely would not have tailored to making Wakanda look like idiot's to up the stakes for talocan. They could be dangerous because T'Challa feels the difference in power and had the ability to fight it.

We likely WOULD have seen T'Challa actually use his genius to beat Namor in a similar vein, OR better yet , T'Challa AND Shuri would work together in Riri's place to find the strategy to beat him. As i feel that is why the line was thrown about T'Challa teaching Shuri everything she knows is due to the complaint that T'Challas genius was heavily downplayed.

THIS would be 1000% different and been vastly more successful because they would have talked T'CHALLA Not a mans death to reinforce and depress people for 2 years

T’Challa getting credit for teaching Shuri science means shit when we never saw him doing it himself and when he’s already dead. It won’t translate to Marvel at large not downplaying his intellect, the only thing that would’ve done that is showing T’Challa unambiguously doing science without having his hand held the way literally every other confirmed genius in the MCU was allowed to do.

They don’t get points for redoing the same throwaway line we got in the first movie. The next best thing would’ve been showing a piece of tech T’Challa alone invented, like if Shuri had gone into the Techno-Organic Jungle and noted how her brother had been cultivating it himself for several years. But at this rate we’re just gonna get more of her stealing his feats and tech like the Dora apparently stole his energy daggers. They just gonna milk the character to inflate what are essentially OCs, I suggest people get comfortable with that. I refuse to believe Coogler was gonna have T’Challa doing anything tech-related in this movie, that aspect of his character was basically discarded in the first film when there was plenty of time and ways to showcase it even if that wasn’t the focus.

[chief12d]

We agree there that Shuri remains the BP during the multiverse saga and beyond that to be honest I don't know why I'm even engaging in this conversation because I don't care about that child lol!

Just let the farce play out and hope that Coogler’s done after BP3. Bring in a new cast, a new vision, and a proper T’Challa then I’ll give the MCU iteration of the franchise a look again.

In the meantime GOTG3 looks great and there’s other good stuff at Marvel coming in. Blade’s movie is also apparently getting revamped so hopefully the nonsense they planned on doing in that film gets cut out and they do him right. 4-6 years is not that long a time to restore the king to his rightful place, but I expect synergy will do a number on the character in the meantime as far as the comics are concerned. Ridley lacks the talent to build the character back up from where he’s taking him but we occasionally get good side content and Redjack’s projects are always worthwhile.

[mace11]

They hated the first movie because of black people. They were gonna hate this for having black men alongside female "MSHEU" and making Namor a minority.

MCU Namor is not a minority since he does not live in the u.s.a.
But he is a poc.

[mace11]

So? I didn't single Feige out. I said Marvel Studios, which Coogler is a paid employee.



I don't care about youtu.be hot takes. I've formed my iwn decision based on what I've seen and how Marvel Atudios have responded to the feedback of Phase 4. Phase 4 has largely been a creative mess and critically the weakest phase of the MCU.

No,certain random youtubers are saying phase 4 is overall disappointment and are a loud minority,and most folks do not agree to that.
Phase 4 is not a disaster.
Now let's compare since you said have seen the critics scores.

If you look at critic scores from critics below phase 4 is the strongest phase on average for them,and it has not been a creative mess.

MCU phase 4 canon comicbook movies and shows ratings update.
Critics and Audience Consensus

Movies

BLACK WIDOW 79% Average Rating: 6.9/10
AUDIENCE SCORE 91% Average Rating: 4.5/5

SHANG-CHI AND THE LEGEND OF THE TEN RINGS 91% 7.50 out of 10 average rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 98% Average Rating: 4.8/5

ETERNALS 47% Average Rating 5.60 /10
AUDIENCE SCORE 78% Average Rating: 4.0/5

SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME 94% Average Rating: 7.9/10
AUDIENCE SCORE 99% Average Rating: 4.9/5

DOCTOR STRANGE IN THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS 74% Average Rating: 6.50/10
AUDIENCE SCORE 85% Average Rating: 4.3/5

THOR: LOVE AND THUNDER 64% 6.40 out of 10 average rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 77% 4 out of 5 average rating

BLACK PANTHER: WAKANDA FOREVER 84%
7.20 out of 10 average rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 95%
4.7 out of 5 average rating

______________
Series
Critics Consensus
WANDAVISION 91%
7.85/10 Avg rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 88%
4.4/5 Avg rating

THE FALCON AND THE WINTER SOLDIER 84%
7.20/10 Avg rating
AVERAGE AUDIENCE SCORE 82%
4.3 Avg rating

LOKI 92%
7.90/10 Avg rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 91%
4.5 Avg rating

WHAT IF...?: SEASON 94%
7.95/10 Avg rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 94%
4.7 Avg rating

HAWKEYE 92%
7.55/10 Avg rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 91%
4.5/5 Avg rating

MOON KNIGHT 87%
7.65/10 Avg rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 91%
4.6/5 Avg rating


MS. MARVEL 98%
8.20/10 Avg rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 81%
4.2/5 Avg rating
Note- ms.marvel's AUDIENCE rt scores/ratings was reviewed bomb and the audience score would have been higher.The ms.marvel's AUDIENCE ratings was reviewed bomb before the show even came out but still has great reviews from the audience.


SHE-HULK: ATTORNEY AT LAW 87%
9.00/10 Avg rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 37%
Avg rating 2.3/5
Note- She hulk's AUDIENCE rt scores/ratings was reviewed bomb and the audience score would have been much higher.The she hulk's AUDIENCE ratings was reviewed bomb before the show even came out.


Web and shorts series
I AM GROOT 87%
7.70/10 Avg rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 76%
3.9 out of 5 average rating


Television specials
WEREWOLF BY NIGHT 92%
7.80 out of 10 average rating
AUDIENCE SCORE 94%
4.6 out of 5 average rating

The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special 91%
7.70 out of 10 average rating
AUDIENCE 83%
4.1 out of 5 average rating

Lets's compare to another phase for example.

Phase 2

Iron Man 3- (79%)
Average Rating: 7/10
AUDIENCE SCORE -(79%)
Average Rating: 4.0/5

Thor: The Dark World-(66%)
Average Rating: 6.2/10
AUDIENCE SCORE -(77%)
Average Rating: 3.9/5


Captain America: The Winter Soldier (89%)
Average Rating: 7.5/10.
AUDIENCE SCORE -(92%)
Average Rating: 4.3/5


Guardians of the Galaxy (91%)
Average Rating: 7.8/10
AUDIENCE SCORE -(92%)
Average Rating: 4.4/5.


Avengers: Age of Ultron- (75%)
Average Rating: 6.7/10.
AUDIENCE SCORE -(84%)
Average Rating: 4.1/5


Ant-man (83%)
Average Rating: 6.9/10.
AUDIENCE SCORE -(85%)
Average Rating: 4.0/5

Phase 4 is the strongest so far for AUDIENCE and critics but THE main reason is because of THE DISNEY PLUS shows.
Take the shows out then phase 3 is the strongest for critics and AUDIENCES.
Take the phase 4 movies out and leave the phase 4 shows then phase 4 is the strongest.

Phase 4 anyway has been the most creative and the most experimental phase yet.
It's also the phase that made the most money at the box office after phase 3.

Folks who are saying phase 4 is not as good as past phases and a disappointment are a loud minority(on the internet for example) and what they say do not match up with what the scores are on rt.
In real life most the audience think phase 4 is the best phase(combination tv and movies)looking at the new recent RT SCORES for phase 4 most critics think phase 4 is the best phase so far too (combination tv shows and movies).

MCU still doing fine critic wise and audience wise. In fact critic and audience wise phase 4 is the strongest phase. Now the box office overall is down because of varied reasons the past few years and china etc..but it's still making more money on average then phase 1 and 2 and all thier shows are still major hits.There shows are doing better then the dc shows on average and liked more on average then dc and past mcu shows,including the mcu netflix shows that were made under disney but not marvel studios.
Phase 4 movies also has less movies at the box office then phase 3,so another reason it the movies made less money at the box office then phase 3 on average.


Oh and my point still stands dealing with black panther 2 from the past replies i posted about the boxoffice etc...

[mace11]

By the way kevin feige never admited the story telling in phase 4 is the weakest or less creative etc..but he admits it's less connected then phase 3 for example and most of the audience wants to go back to be being more connected,so that's the mess certain folks are talking about and few other things.

kevin-feige-marvel-mcu-phase-4-mess

When asked about the choice, Kevin Feige explained Marvel unveiled Phase 6 plans so early on because they wanted fans to have a "guide point," meaning an idea that everything that they have been doing thus far is leading to something.

The fact that he felt compelled to make these announcements years before their release indicates that they are aware of how poorly Phase 4 has done in terms of building on their interconnected storytelling.
For context, the latest phase of the MCU has been criticized for being disjointed and directionless, and those comments were not without merit. Feige announcing Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and Avengers:

Secret Wars effectively squashes worries that Marvel Studios is dropping the ball after the Infinity Saga. For context, Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame, which ended MCU Phase 3, weren’t announced until the middle of Phase 2, meaning these new announcements should have come in sometime during Phase 5.

Marvel Studios' decision to lay out their timeline for the MCU's Multiverse Saga is their subtle way of reassuring the public that they know what they are doing. It's no secret that after the Infinity Saga, there were concerns that the MCU had already peaked, and it didn't help that it's difficult to see a clear narrative throughline among most Phase 4 projects. Granted that Loki, Spider-Man: No Way Home, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness were all thematically connected, it wasn't enough evidence to gauge what's Marvel Studios' next big crossover event was until Feige's Comic-Con announcements. Unfortunately, this doesn't solve all of the MCU Phase 4 issues, which include tonal problems for some of their projects, not to mention VFX work that appears to be getting worse. These can only be addressed by actively tackling such specific criticisms moving forward.

Whether or not Phase 5 will be plagued by the same negative issues that MCU Phase 4 encountered is uncertain at this point. However, Kevin Feige's Multiverse Saga announcement at San Diego Comic-Con 2022 is an indication that Marvel Studios is listening to their audience and reacting accordingly. At the very least, having an idea that everything set up in the MCU Phase 4 is leading to a potentially satisfying payoff should be enough to keep people invested until the end of Phase 6.

https://screenrant.com/kevin-feige-m...-phase-4-mess/

Kevin feige warn folks by the way phase 4 will be less connected then phase 3 for example for clear reasons,new heroes,starting over etc..

[Username taken]

BP2 international gross stands at $733m after this weekend.

Hilariously I’ve seen folks on some other forums half-joke that Marvel will likely bring back T’Challa for the next BP film. That really is the only way to get the franchise back on track and this point.

However, except they go the multiverse, superaging route I can’t see how that happens. Also, killing off Ramonda was a bad, bad decision. Death shouldn’t be the thing the BP movies are associated with. Not to mention it’s a very bad decision to kill off one of the franchise’s strongest supporting characters.

Black people are already dealing with enough real “trauma” in real life, we don’t need to watch it in our superhero movies. Also, I can’t imagine the Spider-man or Superman movies killing off major supporting characters. The only Spider-man movie to do that was The Amazing Spider-man 2 and that film was rubbish.

[Ezyo1000]

T’Challa getting credit for teaching Shuri science means shit when we never saw him doing it himself and when he’s already dead. It won’t translate to Marvel at large not downplaying his intellect, the only thing that would’ve done that is showing T’Challa unambiguously doing science without having his hand held the way literally every other confirmed genius in the MCU was allowed to do.

They don’t get points for redoing the same throwaway line we got in the first movie. The next best thing would’ve been showing a piece of tech T’Challa alone invented, like if Shuri had gone into the Techno-Organic Jungle and noted how her brother had been cultivating it himself for several years. But at this rate we’re just gonna get more of her stealing his feats and tech like the Dora apparently stole his energy daggers. They just gonna milk the character to inflate what are essentially OCs, I suggest people get comfortable with that. I refuse to believe Coogler was gonna have T’Challa doing anything tech-related in this movie, that aspect of his character was basically discarded in the first film when there was plenty of time and ways to showcase it even if that wasn’t the focus.

I am just saying that if the WF was supposed to actually focusing on T'Challa, they would have the opportunity to do so, and given the amount of criticism people had for T'Challas portrayal, I wouldn't have been surprised if T'Challa and Shuri came up with the idea to beat Namor. I'm not giving them credit for the throwaway line. Especially since yeah he was dead and they didn't show it. It was 100% lips service with no substance. Made even more insulting when taking in the fact that Erik in the ancestral plane claimed T'Challa was "Too Noble" when dude literally drove a knife through his chest without even blinking or hesitating. THAT was a huge insult to T'Challa

[mace11]

Also, I can’t imagine the Spider-man or Superman movies killing off major supporting characters. The only Spider-man movie to do that was The Amazing Spider-man 2 and that film was rubbish.

Well superman(one of the main leads) died in batman v superman and steve died in wonder woman and ww84 again and their is jimmy olsen(not a major character in the dceu)but still a major supporting superman character.
For shows A Jimmy died in the Smallville show but they had a new one later.