YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Pulp Fiction]

And things still aren’t going good for T’Challa. Good to know.

These issues are stemming from T’Challa having spies. Before Ridley he’s had contingencies but never spies. This is something Ridley created to go "look T’Challa is a liar and that’s bad". Bruh losing everything because of this. We know the arc ends with no pay off because of solicitations. If Ridley wanted to tackle the aspect of T’challa’s paranoia then he should have delved into T’Challa losing his father and and having heavy expectations and responsibilities at a young age. Not this "humble T’Challa" world tour he pulled from his a**. We’ve got Tosin’s sh*t talking as our next destination. Coates was trash but Ridley is doubling down.

[king of hybrids]

Have they really made T’Challa the Richard to Storm’s Hyacinth?

[chief12d]

These issues are stemming from T’Challa having spies. Before Ridley he’s had contingencies but never spies. This is something Ridley created to go "look T’Challa is a liar and that’s bad". Bruh losing everything because of this. We know the arc ends with no pay off because of solicitations. If Ridley wanted to tackle the aspect of T’challa’s paranoia then he should have delved into T’Challa losing his father and and having heavy expectations and responsibilities at a young age. Not this "humble T’Challa" world tour he pulled from his a**. We’ve got Tosin’s sh*t talking as our next destination. Coates was trash but Ridley is doubling down.

T’Challa having spies isn’t necessarily the issue. It’s having spies with nothing to show for it, there’s no redeeming quality that would make the audience think “This was a respectable idea with a good motivation even if it has flaws and causes trouble.” There’s no nuance to this at all, it’s straight up villainizing the lead via his own incompetence and lack of emotional intelligence. T’Challa’s not kowtowing to his detractors but that doesn’t mean much if his bravado isn’t even slightly justified within the narrative.

None of the relevant spies are proud (or even good) allies, we don’t know of any victories they’ve achieved, they’re not coming off particular competent or interesting, T’Challa hasn’t gleaned anything useful to this or any future plots from them, etc. It’s an utter failure that’s only made him look dumb, lead to a coup, and hurt his personal relationships. There was a way to tell a story about T’Challa’s paranoia while mixing in a hidden spy program with contingencies and underground stuff. But it relies on there being a balance between recognizing the potential benefits of those things vs the negatives.

This is why characters like Amanda Waller and Nick Fury work (at least in the past). Yes they have MASSIVE trust and personal issues, but their methods are proven to be useful to some degree or another. They’re never completely in the right, but in a good story with those characters, readers come to understand that the way they handle things have a level of merit that justifies continued support. Even if they abandon morals now and then or are too cold-hearted for their own good.

We’ve been lacking that in recent BP stories, any semblance of agency on T’Challa’s part is treated as a set up for massive failure with little to show for it. He sends explorers into space to prevent cosmic vibranium from falling into the wrong hands. Then the gods abandon Wakanda and a slave empire enslaving trillions is born lol. He creates a spy program to preempt attacks on Wakanda. Cool, now they’re all not following the rules and its reveal is used as the cause for another civil war.

BP writers see T’Challa competently using his resources to proactively defend his people as inherently authoritarian and oppressive. They see him as a stand-in for the neocolonial, exploitative governments that exist in real life so any time he dares to do more than just passively respond to a legitimate threat, they ruthlessly punish the character with an avalanche of failures with no payoff. T’Challa isn’t seen as an idealized (but still flawed) alternative to the rulers of today, they see him as another petty despot in over his head.

[KingNomarch]

Paving the way for putting the character on the sidelines for Shuri once the movie confirms the direction it is heading.

I reached the point that I'm convinced that the reason Ridley's run was delayed was to alter his original plans so that it can align with the movie

[Pulp Fiction]

T’Challa having spies isn’t necessarily the issue. It’s having spies with nothing to show for it, there’s no redeeming quality that would make the audience think “This was a respectable idea with a good motivation even if it has flaws and causes trouble.” There’s no nuance to this at all, it’s straight up villainizing the lead via his own incompetence and lack of emotional intelligence. T’Challa’s not kowtowing to his detractors but that doesn’t mean much if his bravado isn’t even slightly justified within the narrative.

None of the relevant spies are proud (or even good) allies, we don’t know of any victories they’ve achieved, they’re not coming off particular competent or interesting, T’Challa hasn’t gleaned anything useful to this or any future plots from them, etc. It’s an utter failure that’s only made him look dumb, lead to a coup, and hurt his personal relationships. There was a way to tell a story about T’Challa’s paranoia while mixing in a hidden spy program with contingencies and underground stuff. But it relies on there being a balance between recognizing the potential benefits of those things vs the negatives.

This is why characters like Amanda Waller and Nick Fury work (at least in the past). Yes they have MASSIVE trust and personal issues, but their methods are proven to be useful to some degree or another. They’re never completely in the right, but in a good story with those characters, readers come to understand that the way they handle things have a level of merit that justifies continued support. Even if they abandon morals now and then or are too cold-hearted for their own good.

We’ve been lacking that in recent BP stories, any semblance of agency on T’Challa’s part is treated as a set up for massive failure with little to show for it. He sends explorers into space to prevent cosmic vibranium from falling into the wrong hands. Then the gods abandon Wakanda and a slave empire enslaving trillions is born lol. He creates a spy program to preempt attacks on Wakanda. Cool, now they’re all not following the rules and its reveal is used as the cause for another civil war.

BP writers see T’Challa competently using his resources to proactively defend his people as inherently authoritarian and oppressive. They see him as a stand-in for the neocolonial, exploitative governments that exist in real life so any time he dares to do more than just passively respond to a legitimate threat, they ruthlessly punish the character with an avalanche of failures with no payoff. T’Challa isn’t seen as an idealized (but still flawed) alternative to the rulers of today, they see him as another petty despot in over his head.

I hear you. I guess I’m feeling that if the spy thing was gonna cause this much trouble, I’d rather it didn’t exist. When it was first revealed I said that I was fine with it as long as the story didn’t paint it black and white because with how dangerous the marvel universe is and how many times wakanda has been threatened like in avx and secret empire, it would make sense but this story is as black and white and one dimensional as I feared. It only exists to villainize him as you said. It’s seriously disappointing to read Ewing who writes one of the best T’Challa, having to incorporate Ridley’s mess

[MindofShadow]

T’Challa having spies isn’t necessarily the issue. It’s having spies with nothing to show for it, there’s no redeeming quality that would make the audience think “This was a respectable idea with a good motivation even if it has flaws and causes trouble.” There’s no nuance to this at all, it’s straight up villainizing the lead via his own incompetence and lack of emotional intelligence. T’Challa’s not kowtowing to his detractors but that doesn’t mean much if his bravado isn’t even slightly justified within the narrative.

None of the relevant spies are proud (or even good) allies, we don’t know of any victories they’ve achieved, they’re not coming off particular competent or interesting, T’Challa hasn’t gleaned anything useful to this or any future plots from them, etc. It’s an utter failure that’s only made him look dumb, lead to a coup, and hurt his personal relationships. There was a way to tell a story about T’Challa’s paranoia while mixing in a hidden spy program with contingencies and underground stuff. But it relies on there being a balance between recognizing the potential benefits of those things vs the negatives.

This is why characters like Amanda Waller and Nick Fury work (at least in the past). Yes they have MASSIVE trust and personal issues, but their methods are proven to be useful to some degree or another. They’re never completely in the right, but in a good story with those characters, readers come to understand that the way they handle things have a level of merit that justifies continued support. Even if they abandon morals now and then or are too cold-hearted for their own good.

We’ve been lacking that in recent BP stories, any semblance of agency on T’Challa’s part is treated as a set up for massive failure with little to show for it. He sends explorers into space to prevent cosmic vibranium from falling into the wrong hands. Then the gods abandon Wakanda and a slave empire enslaving trillions is born lol. He creates a spy program to preempt attacks on Wakanda. Cool, now they’re all not following the rules and its reveal is used as the cause for another civil war.

BP writers see T’Challa competently using his resources to proactively defend his people as inherently authoritarian and oppressive. They see him as a stand-in for the neocolonial, exploitative governments that exist in real life so any time he dares to do more than just passively respond to a legitimate threat, they ruthlessly punish the character with an avalanche of failures with no payoff. T’Challa isn’t seen as an idealized (but still flawed) alternative to the rulers of today, they see him as another petty despot in over his head.

Yup.

Could have easily had T'challa defend himself with, "you have no idea the threats we've stopped before it became a problem for Wakanda."

You could have easily shown various plots by T'challa and the spies to stop issues. And not all of them would have been "killed XYZ." One spy paying off someone, one spy making certain data disappear, one spy making people disappear, ect.

Show us a spy in Hydra. Show us a spy in the US. Show us a spy in Azania. Show us one in M16.

You could easily retcon them into various situation where the Wakandans stopped bad **** before it happened.


You have to give T'challa some good reason for it to exist. It can't be "a contengency" only because it doesn't fit... where was "this contengency" during AvX for example? or Secret Empire? or various other world altering event that wakanda was involved in.

But, simply, none of the writers care.

[chief12d]

I hear you. I guess I’m feeling that if the spy thing was gonna cause this much trouble, I’d rather it didn’t exist. When it was first revealed I said that I was fine with it as long as the story didn’t paint it black and white because with how dangerous the marvel universe is and how many times wakanda has been threatened like in avx and secret empire, it would make sense but this story is as black and white and one dimensional as I feared. It only exists to villainize him as you said. It’s seriously disappointing to read Ewing who writes one of the best T’Challa, having to incorporate Ridley’s mess

The only good thing about Ewing’s work with T’Challa in that issue was the implication Storm and T’Challa aren’t together anymore. Which seems like a logical consequence of his actions in his own book. There really is no coming back from implanting a child spy in your girlfriend’s circle, not immediately after the whole thing comes up at least.

Though, realistically the BP books are gonna set the tone on the relationship. Ewing doesn’t care about romance like that in this book so whatever T’Challa content we get is always gonna be largely superfluous. Ridley’s probably gonna have them reconcile during this upcoming space arc lol. This run is fueled by artificial drama and cheap emotional beats, I don’t see him abandoning the constant push and pull of T’Challa’s love life.

[BlackClaw]

I reached the point that I'm convinced that the reason Ridley's run was delayed was to alter his original plans so that it can align with the movie

Synergy is a hell of a drug.

[king of hybrids]

Synergy is a hell of a drug.

Considering the hatchet they’ve been taking to the comics characters who have movie debuts lately that’s not a surprise (The mess they made of Carol and America for example) that’s hardly a surprise

[Ezyo1000]

The xmen interaction was tame and just a retread. Ewings just working with continuity like he’s always done. Ridley is the one that created these "issues" kinda sad that Ewing has to entertain them.

T’Challa is stepping down from emperor. The formality of being king is gone, removed as leader of the Avengers… Where is Ridley going with this?

.....LOOOOOL. what was the point of Coates run then? What was the point of all of this. He literally went from Bast champion, to King again, looking to the stars at the end of Hickman's run. Then Coates comes along and makes being king a figurehead, then he becomes emperor. Then he becomes chairman of the Avengers, figure head king, and emperor all at once, now here comes Ridley and due to his Bullisht ass story he has lost all 3 titles? Like... TF?

[skyvolt2000]

......

None of that makes any real sense. Did he burn all his money on cancer treatments or something? His percentage of the profits from BP alone would be more than that.

good on his wife to support the parents though

Depends on his insurance.

Now DESPITE Medical folks saying get checked for colon cancer BEFORE you hit 50. Guess what everybody-a LOT of insurances WILL NOT pay for it all. I was LUCKY to only having to pay $1200 for Colonoscopy. Insurance won't pay for it all until I hit 50 and only until I am 75.
Got another co-worker who is over 50 and he was out $2000 because he went to a major hospital and they charge him like crazy.
We have the insurance EVERYBODY in education and even in the hospitals hate. Which is saying a lot when the previous insurance I had would have me paying almost $1200 a month. I only visit the doctor-6 times a year.
Got folks who don't even get a check because insurance EATS up all of it.

Paving the way for putting the character on the sidelines for Shuri once the movie confirms the direction it is heading.

Where is the logic in that when everything else (mainly novels) are showing Shuri as her OWN woman. Nic Stone is doing the work that the comics should be doing.

You throw her in that suit over her brother and how much stuff STOPS getting made?

Wonder Woman is a bloody ICON and look how much of a BATTLE it is to get her stuff. A line just about HER.
We are just NOW getting spinoff books and Amazon events after 1 tv show, 1 failed pilot, 1 unreleased toyline by George Perez and 2 solo movies. Over 50 years.

Wonder Woman is NOT black. Can we all imagine the battle for Shuri?

Static had a hit show and Miles had an Oscar. T'Challa got 3 Oscars. It's a BATTLE to get stuff made for them.

Despite white kid after white kid after white kid dressed as Static, Miles and T'Challa. Custom made stuff is making a fortune off of them.

[Pulp Fiction]

.....LOOOOOL. what was the point of Coates run then? What was the point of all of this. He literally went from Bast champion, to King again, looking to the stars at the end of Hickman's run. Then Coates comes along and makes being king a figurehead, then he becomes emperor. Then he becomes chairman of the Avengers, figure head king, and emperor all at once, now here comes Ridley and due to his Bullisht ass story he has lost all 3 titles? Like... TF?

All he has left is being Black panther and best believe they’re coming for that next.

Redjack telling stories about a depowered T’Challa teaching kids in New York and fighting crime would sell more than whatever wakanda/shuri book they’re gearing up to would so (if the timeless teaser didn’t exist) I wouldn’t be surprised if they kill him off

[Ezyo1000]

I hear you. I guess I’m feeling that if the spy thing was gonna cause this much trouble, I’d rather it didn’t exist. When it was first revealed I said that I was fine with it as long as the story didn’t paint it black and white because with how dangerous the marvel universe is and how many times wakanda has been threatened like in avx and secret empire, it would make sense but this story is as black and white and one dimensional as I feared. It only exists to villainize him as you said. It’s seriously disappointing to read Ewing who writes one of the best T’Challa, having to incorporate Ridley’s mess

T'Challa has always had spies. Priest had them, Hudlin had Wakandans having spies for centuries. This isn't a new deal. The new part about it are these spies in particular are isht. Utter dog isht, and the story is being used to perform a mean character assassination on T'Challa. Like Chief said they are villianizing hon and doing these stories in the laziest way possible to make him look like an incompetent fool

They are paving way to sideline T'Challa to synergize with the movie and make way for Shuri to take over. It's why all his stuff has been wiped away. And this sucks so hard because everyone they have out on the book save RJ has continued the isht flinging. It's getting to the point of what's the point of even liking or rooting for a character who's written so incompetently? Wheres the appeal? How does this somehow draw people in to learn more when the character is written as such a massive idiot? Ok not long time and hardcore fans know the truth, but new fans only see this isht version and think this is how he ALWAYS is portrayed

[chief12d]

Yup.

Could have easily had T'challa defend himself with, "you have no idea the threats we've stopped before it became a problem for Wakanda."

You could have easily shown various plots by T'challa and the spies to stop issues. And not all of them would have been "killed XYZ." One spy paying off someone, one spy making certain data disappear, one spy making people disappear, ect.

Show us a spy in Hydra. Show us a spy in the US. Show us a spy in Azania. Show us one in M16.

You could easily retcon them into various situation where the Wakandans stopped bad **** before it happened.


You have to give T'challa some good reason for it to exist. It can't be "a contengency" only because it doesn't fit... where was "this contengency" during AvX for example? or Secret Empire? or various other world altering event that wakanda was involved in.

But, simply, none of the writers care.

Yea a spy program is one of those things you need to depict with some nuance to make it worth the story. Black and white portrayals are basic and tend to be poorly developed, espionage by definition is about the gray area. They could’ve snuck a few a panels of agents shutting down an MI6 base in Kenya or revealed that B’Tumba, T’Challa’s “evil” cousin who died working for AIM, is actually alive as a deep cover agent, setting up stuff for the next arc. The program needs to have some merit or T’Challa looks irrational to the point of stupidity.

[Pulp Fiction]

T'Challa has always had spies. Priest had them, Hudlin had Wakandans having spies for centuries. This isn't a new deal. The new part about it are these spies in particular are isht. Utter dog isht, and the story is being used to perform a mean character assassination on T'Challa. Like Chief said they are villianizing hon and doing these stories in the laziest way possible to make him look like an incompetent fool

They are paving way to sideline T'Challa to synergize with the movie and make way for Shuri to take over. It's why all his stuff has been wiped away. And this sucks so hard because everyone they have out on the book save RJ has continued the isht flinging. It's getting to the point of what's the point of even liking or rooting for a character who's written so incompetently? Wheres the appeal? How does this somehow draw people in to learn more when the character is written as such a massive idiot? Ok not long time and hardcore fans know the truth, but new fans only see this isht version and think this is how he ALWAYS is portrayed

mb, It’s been a while. Even so there’s no nuance. We aren’t shown the necessity alongside the repercussions and all the spies are bad mouthing him like he ruined their lives. It all just makes him look bad. Like mos said, Ridley could have shown them thwarting an attack on wakanda.

That’s what’s bugging me. Who is this for and why does it keep selling above cancellation numbers. It’s like Coates brought in a segment of fans that enjoy T’Challa being incompetent.