YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Surf]

The mere fact that masculinist books or movies exist that counter Black feminist works like The Color Purple does not make them equivalent. They are not given the same promotion, and definitely not the same respect. People can quote The Color Purple to this day, and that movie is close to 40 years old. There’s nothing masculinist that is as embraced or revered as The Color Purple, The Women of Brewster’s Place, For Color Girls…, etc., etc.

This is not me putting on a cape for Color Purple but Black people as a whole can quote some deep cuts in general. We can unify quoting Fishburne's Ike Turner- men and women for it's over the topness. And roll about it strong for a half an hour. (...Is What's Love got to do with it a feminist work?). Also depends on what you can see as masculinist, and the layer that this too is generational. I do agree with the overall point but c'mon- overall Color Purple is Black Black but it's one story, with roots. BLACK people quote it and often times, most times, you know it's in some sort of jest at this point. I've never heard a Women of Brewster Place drop in any circle of Black folks I've been in since that one came out, so I'll take your word on that lol. Generationally speaking, there are 2-3 generations that have come up with 'reality' **** as their Color Purple so it ain't all good.

It can get funky but you're excluding a lot of pre-1980's movies as well as any Hip-Hop, or any humor orientated projects. Not always the most, uplifting portrayals (similarly to Color Purple) but they are in the zeitgeist nevertheless among us, where it counts most. Cautionary tales are also not without merit. 90% of them from a male pov, Ice Cube alone has got memorable movie lines in the culture 3 or 4 times over.

Again I mostly agree, Black male marginalization is real and because entertainment speaks so loudly to our society it reinforces itself. I just push back in that a lot of this imo is in the direction of the group as a whole. Fwiw Ororo peaked 3-4 years after her debut. Damn near 40 years ago, unfortunately she is stronger as a concept than as an actualized character, far from it.

[Frontier]

I just read the Shuri kids graphic novel...

spoilers:

I wasn't expecting them to make Bashenga a bad guy.

end of spoilers

[Username taken]

I just read the Shuri kids graphic novel...

spoilers:

I wasn't expecting them to make Bashenga a bad guy.

end of spoilers

Seriously????

Why?

[Tofali]

I just read the Shuri kids graphic novel...

spoilers:

I wasn't expecting them to make Bashenga a bad guy.

end of spoilers

Could you elaborate on the degree?

Seriously????

Why?

The target audience seems to be outside the core comic book readers so after Coates made Wakandans in to colonizers I don't see any writer holding back on anybody else. lol!

[Mantis-Ray]

So the plotline of Frozen II basically which granted was popularized by Thor Ragnarok.

The whole spoilers:

our ancestor was a colonist and we have to fight the wrongs of the past and what not.

end of spoilers

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I forgot how hype this trailer made me.

[Tofali]

So the plotline of Frozen II basically which granted was popularized by Thor Ragnarok.

The whole spoilers:

our ancestor was a colonist and we have to fight the wrongs of the past and what not.

end of spoilers

With Thor the Nine Realms kind of made him open to interpretation and comparable to the Galactic Empire in Star Wars but Coates kind of extended Wakandan's colonization on Earth and in space without any ambition on the story he wanted to tell. He was just coughing up stuff without knowing his objectives or what the purpose they will serve in the future stories.

[Mantis-Ray]

Also on an unrelated note on Thor thread I made a comparison noting how ridiculous Jason Aaron's Odin/Phoenix pairing and her being Thor's real mom is.

Imagine if Aaron wrote that T'Chaka or I guess Azzuri had an affair with Captain America's mother and there was an entire series dedicated to their romance that eventually produced T'Challa with the big reveal being T'Challa and Steve are related.

Thats how ludicrous the entire Odin/Phoenix romance is.

[Emperorjones]

This is not me putting on a cape for Color Purple but Black people as a whole can quote some deep cuts in general. We can unify quoting Fishburne's Ike Turner- men and women for it's over the topness. And roll about it strong for a half an hour. (...Is What's Love got to do with it a feminist work?). Also depends on what you can see as masculinist, and the layer that this too is generational. I do agree with the overall point but c'mon- overall Color Purple is Black Black but it's one story, with roots. BLACK people quote it and often times, most times, you know it's in some sort of jest at this point. I've never heard a Women of Brewster Place drop in any circle of Black folks I've been in since that one came out, so I'll take your word on that lol. Generationally speaking, there are 2-3 generations that have come up with 'reality' **** as their Color Purple so it ain't all good.

It can get funky but you're excluding a lot of pre-1980's movies as well as any Hip-Hop, or any humor orientated projects. Not always the most, uplifting portrayals (similarly to Color Purple) but they are in the zeitgeist nevertheless among us, where it counts most. Cautionary tales are also not without merit. 90% of them from a male pov, Ice Cube alone has got memorable movie lines in the culture 3 or 4 times over.

Again I mostly agree, Black male marginalization is real and because entertainment speaks so loudly to our society it reinforces itself. I just push back in that a lot of this imo is in the direction of the group as a whole. Fwiw Ororo peaked 3-4 years after her debut. Damn near 40 years ago, unfortunately she is stronger as a concept than as an actualized character, far from it.

I was trying to be very specific in my language, and while there’s tons of movies (Black or otherwise) that Black people quote (myself included), I was speaking specifically of Black feminist works that have been become part of Black (pop) culture, so much so they are quoted like we sometimes will hear in The Color Purple (and it’s arguable that that film or even the novel it’s adapted from is “Black Black”) or that are very popular or as respected like Women of Brewster's Place was when it came out. I can’t think of a one. I was not talking about Women of Brewster’s Place as being quoted, but more that it’s part of a galaxy of Black feminist work that’s out there.

Perhaps I am showing my age with Women of Brewster’s Place, which was a very well-regarded television miniseries back in the day, which unsurprisingly also had Oprah in the cast. To be honest, I did look at the miniseries when I was younger and didn’t see a problem with it-then, and the same when I read the novel (which I thought was well-written). But at that time, I didn’t have the understanding of Black feminism that I do now, so I was quite receptive to a lot of Black feminist narratives in my youth.

I do think What’s Love Got to Do With It could fit under the Black feminist rubric, especially in its bestial depiction of Ike Turner. The idea of the bestial black man, driven by his lustful appetites and rage comes right out of the Jim Crow era and has been repackaged today for Black mass entertainment, and is present in everything from hip-hop to movies to television. I recall how the movie Precious didn’t even show the rapist father’s face. He was just some dark, fat, sweating torso.

And there was a growing supply by then, and now it’s just the status quo when it comes to Black entertainment. You mentioned hip-hop, and that has somewhat stood outside of the Black feminist takeover of Black pop culture, but the misogyny, among other things, has long been criticized, while the idea of misandry in Black pop culture has not much been discussed, or taken seriously if it’s mentioned. There is a lot more pushback in hip hop, where I can’t say we even have the language to understand misandry (much less even know the word) because we’ve been imbibing it so long, it’s just become the way things are.

When it comes to overall marginalization, I don’t dispute that, but I think the Black feminist solution of cutting off Black males in an attempt to save only Black women and girls, among other preferred segments of our community, will not work in the long run. And even if it did work I'm not on board with my own erasure.

I do think the idea of what is masculinist is a good question, and it's one that I think will take time to figure it out, because I think this language of Black men speaking out this way hasn't really been written yet. Black feminists have a four decades jump on the discourse.

[Ezyo1000]

I just read the Shuri kids graphic novel...

spoilers:

I wasn't expecting them to make Bashenga a bad guy.

end of spoilers

Because what better way to further the black males are the villains than that... Black men can't catch a win at all. They are sowing dysfunction at all levels

[BlackClaw]

Because what better way to further the black males are the villains than that... Black men can't catch a win at all. They are sowing dysfunction at all levels

This franchise is in desperate need of a point man. This is getting ridiculous.

[Devaishwarya]

And apparently Million BC (Or whatever nonsense Aaron calls it) Black Panther dies. And all Odin could think of is sexy time with MBC Phoenix.

With regards to modern day BP...it took two "hack" writers 6 years to completely ruin EVERYTHING about BP and the Wakanda Mythos that had been firmly established by far better writers, for decades.

(And I'm not even touching on the fact that these are two "esteemed" Black writers)

[KingNomarch]

Just in time for the movie

Collects Black Panther (2005) #2, Black Panther (2009) #1-6, Klaws of The Panther #1-4, Black Panther (2016) #1 and #8-11 and Black Panther: Long Live the King #3-4.

Shuri's incredible journey! T'Challa's genius sister always believed she was destined to be the Black Panther. And when T'Challa unexpectedly falls, Shuri may get her chance - if she can survive it! While T'Challa recuperates, Shuri must prove herself worthy by braving the deadly Panther rituals. Though when their father's killer, Ulysses Klaw, returns with a plot that will spill blood from the Savage Land to New York, Shuri must turn to some unexpected allies for help! Then, when disaster strikes, it's T'Challa's turn to fight for Shuri - but a journey through the Wakandan spirit plane will soon change her forever. Plus: Sister and brother unite to face the monstrous threat of the White Gorilla Cult!

LMAO they couldn't even bother using comic shuri's look during that time plus her name gets top billing. How long until Marvel announces another Shuri series possibly even making her BP again?

[KingNomarch]

Yeah 1 million BC Black Panther has joined the long list of alternate BPs that sucked. But het, he lifted Mnolnir in a single panel I guess. So much for "he could kill any one of us if he had to".

https://aiptcomics.com/2022/08/12/ma...1000000-b-c-1/

[Toonstrack]

I like your optimism and the way you are looking at the arc. I've been burnt by a lot of modern comic runs like these.

We waited and waited for Coates (I wasn't very vocal until the middle and end of the first arc) and it all ended badly. Ridley's first run has not given us a satisfactory end at all and the reason why T'Challa is being treated this way isn't in line with the character's previous depictions. It's Ridley coming in and saying T'Challa did so and so and is effectively punishing the character for reasons that did not exist before he took on the character.

The way I look at it, black characters haven't been given fair treatment at the big two, this led directly to the creation of Milestone. The problem is nowadays some creatives (and social media like Twitter or Lipstick Alley) are treating this like it's a zero-sum game (black males MUST make way for black females or vice versa), this isn't how it should be done. The space for black and minority characters at the big two is small enough as it is and losing or denigrating anyone of them is too big a problem already (hence why people are asking for recasting T'Challa instead of treating an already tiny pool of minority characters as interchangeable).

Now, I am not saying that T'Challa should be treated as an infallible hero but he should be treated as a competent, intelligent, and confident man as the protagonist of a book should be. Ridley's T'Challa is basically a buffoon that set up a secret spy ring that was turned against his country and he fell down on his knees begging for help and then crying for companionship; he's so feckless that he can't even stand by his own decisions and explain the need for his previous actions even if they were wrong. I can't in my life remember the protagonist of any major superhero comic being treated and depicted like this even when they have done explicitly questionable things. Tony Stark and Reed Richards in Civil War committed actions that led to the death of their friends, Professor X's entire Krakoa plan was secretly developed with the help of a genocidal mutant and he created a big tent for all sorts of murderers and killers while refusing to resurrect a particular mutant, Namor flooded Wakanda under the influence of the Phoenix and said he would have done it possessed or not, Thor got the Odin force and took over the world forcefully and the list goes on....none of these guys were depicted the way T'Challa was at the end of this arc.

To the definitely has. His current arc has him constantly struggling with his past issues, his depression, his addiction, and it took 18 issues for him to even take a first step at solving that stuff. Reed, idk he just kinda stopped being written at all for like 5 years. Thor spent a long time not being thor for his stuff, and arc took years to complete. Heck Peter Parker is going through this now and we don't even know what exactly he did that turned folks against him yet.

Maybe I am optimistic, but I notice a pattern in that these guys are doing longer storylines that run for some time before we see some kinda of redemption. I'm still hopeful and its not like I absolutely hate the setup here so I'm willing to stick with it.

"Keep reading. It will all pay off at the end!"

We just went through YEARS of Coates partisans claiming that, to no avail.

Ridley set up this arc, and left his main character kneeling on the ground weeping to his ex to not leave him alone.

Where's the payoff in that? Are we supposed to keep swallowing isht like good little zombies on the off-chance Ridley makes the title character look good for a panel?

The arc is OVER. The payoff should have been in THIS ISSUE. Not at some point potentially years down the road, probably when he's ready to leave. Too many writers in comics these days LOVE "deconstructing" heroes, but HATE putting them back together.

Ridley tends to do this though. Longer arcs and storylines running through multiple. Thats more a writing style than anything.