YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Dariel81]

he was literally 10x worse. Atleast Ridley had T'Challa defending himself to start, but at the end hes pretty much right there at chump level with Coates panther.



This is such a trollish thing to even post on the thread it's not even funny.

I disagree..
Coates Tchalla is so much better

[Agent Z]

Somebody forced me to look at this and all i have to say is i had to check twice to make sure tim scott wasn't the author. If this wasn't ghost written if ridley really wrote this i can't even be mad at marvel and if he didn't or did and he got nothing to say all i can honestly think in my heart and soul is " is every or any check really worth it." there are some things i know i rather starve than do.

What do you mean by your reference to Tim Scott?

[BlackClaw]

Black Panther is a mess across various mediums and I can’t even jump skip to DC since it’s more of a mess than ever. It’s like my entertainment life has taken a massive hit. Lol.

[KingNomarch]

I disagree..
Coates Tchalla is so much better

In the battle of worse T'Challa Coates still wins unless you can name something that happened under Ridley that was worse than T'Challa inviting tyrants and despots to Wakanda and paying for their help or T'Challa allowing the rape of women and children go uninterrupted.

Black Panther is a mess across various mediums and I can’t even jump skip to DC since it’s more of a mess than ever. It’s like my entertainment life has taken a massive hit. Lol.

He's in desperate need of a point man that has his best interest at heart at every division of Marvel but they keep hiring people that treat him like a stepping stone because they think that Wakanda and everyone else is the main draw. Feige has been pushing the "it was never about T'Challa but Wakanda" narrative for over a year now and it's one of the main arguments that the anti recast movement has used.

[jwatson]

What do you mean by your reference to Tim Scott?

If you don't know you don't know. And imma leave it at that.

[John Venus]

Some cool fan art I came across whilst on Pintrest, thought I would share:




By: kevrayval

[Steroid]

This issue did something to me that is rare in that it legit pissed me off on the first read through. I decided to just now read it again to see if it was really that bad and once I got to the last page for the first time in my life I threw a comic in the trash in disgust. There's this feeling of a coordinated assault against Black men in Marvel comics right now and it's really taking away my love of Marvel. Nothing from Ridley will ever make it into my house again and Marvel in general is pretty close to that status as well.

[jwatson]

This issue did something to me that is rare in that it legit pissed me off on the first read through. I decided to just now read it again to see if it was really that bad and once I got to the last page for the first time in my life I threw a comic in the trash in disgust. There's this feeling of a coordinated assault against Black men in Marvel comics right now and it's really taking away my love of Marvel. Nothing from Ridley will ever make it into my house again and Marvel in general is pretty close to that status as well.

Same here. And i'm about to put marvel on blast if this continues. i'm not a petty person but i would definitely use any success i garner and anyone i design for that mentions it to tell them my truth. I'm in CT, i'll run across someone with some power to say something at some point and it fuels me to be in one, that i can. I often have conversations with yale students and wall streeters.

[Emperorjones]

Hes a guy with a whole lot more to deal with than Jace Fox or black lightning, the other two guys Ridley is writing. So his mistakes and his failings are going to have a much bigger fallout and be grander in scale becsuse they affect a lot of people.

All I'm getting at is this is how Ridley writes his characters. He has them grow and learn and become better for it over a long period of time. Redemption, self improvement and introspection on a personal scale is a lot more a priority for him than sweeping statements of race or a lot of other stuff being attributed to him. Unfortunately he's a slow burner. I've still got confidence his run can end with tchalla proud and triumphant.

My copy of the latest issue hasn't come in the mail yet, so I can't speak on that. But I have read the rest of Ridley's BP run, and I got to say that his depiction of T'Challa is making a sweeping statement, or rather broad generalization, when it comes to race, specifically Black males, and even more specifically straight Black males, which is right in line with the contemporary discourse and admonition for Black men to just "do better." With T'Challa being perhaps the greatest symbol, a proxy, for (straight) Black males in mainstream comics, how he's depicted, how he's treated, does have larger reverberations and ramifications.

I have no problem with a character that faces challenges, that fails, that has to self-improve, but I see when it comes to Black male characters specifically there seems to be a tendency to have them defined by failure and limitation. In the Coates-Ridley era, Black males, as symbolized by T'Challa, are "the problem." If one says that T'Challa lied to everyone in Ridley's arc, how many of these other characters were truthful either? Yet, it's T'Challa that gets the blame, which goes along with how Black males are often blamed for just about everything wrong in society in the real world it seems. I don't have an issue with characters taking issue with T'Challa, but give me pushback, give me debate/dialogue, spread the tongue lashing around. T'Challa made decisions for reasons, let us hear them, let him defend himself, and let him be right sometime. Who wants to read a book where the main character gets dumped on constantly, accepts the pile on, and that's it? There's a lot of deconstructing but no rebuilding. I think that's acceptable for Black male characters more so than others because of how Black males have been depicted and perceived in the real world and media now for decades, so Black males, and their fictional avatars, need to be preached to. We are almost to the point where before Ridley's run is over someone is going to tell T'Challa to pull his pants up.

As a Black male reader, personally I get tired of Black characters, particularly Black males, having to "learn" to "do better", particularly in the kind of sermonizing, patronizing ways it's done in the media. Obviously, Ridley thinks this is a necessary lesson Black males in particular need to learn. I don't agree, but even the harshest "lessons" go down easier when you mix sugar with vinegar. Outside of his first issue or two, on this run, it's been all vinegar.

It seems to me that writers like Coates and Ridley and they are not alone in this are using the Black Panther comic and T'Challa to explore and examine their personal issues with/excoriations of (Black) masculinity instead of creating art that builds up T'Challa or even the world of Wakanda which is now supposed to be more important than T'Challa. From Maberry to Ridley, how exactly is even Wakanda a better place than it was under Hudlin or Priest?






Spoilers for novels For Those Who Walk in Darkness/What Fire Cannot Burn:

To be fair to Ridley, he hasn't only deconstructed Black males. I read his superhero novel duology he wrote over a decade or so ago, and his main character, a Black woman was rage-filled and had some unlikeable traits and was unceremoniously killed off in the second book and Ridley had an Asian female protagonist take over from there. It was a neat twist, a shocking one, but from what I recall, it still felt like he could've done better by the first protagonist.

[BlackClaw]

Same here. And i'm about to put marvel on blast if this continues. i'm not a petty person but i would definitely use any success i garner and anyone i design for that mentions it to tell them my truth. I'm in CT, i'll run across someone with some power to say something at some point and it fuels me to be in one, that i can. I often have conversations with yale students and wall streeters.

Please do it. Nobody wanted to call Coates out for the things he did with his run but John Ridley’s run feels like a deliberate character assassination and the only way Marvel might change course is if high profile people start lighting their asses up for this.

[Steroid]

My copy of the latest issue hasn't come in the mail yet, so I can't speak on that. But I have read the rest of Ridley's BP run, and I got to say that his depiction of T'Challa is making a sweeping statement, or rather broad generalization, when it comes to race, specifically Black males, and even more specifically straight Black males, which is right in line with the contemporary discourse and admonition for Black men to just "do better." With T'Challa being perhaps the greatest symbol, a proxy, for (straight) Black males in mainstream comics, how he's depicted, how he's treated, does have larger reverberations and ramifications.

I have no problem with a character that faces challenges, that fails, that has to self-improve, but I see when it comes to Black male characters specifically there seems to be a tendency to have them defined by failure and limitation. In the Coates-Ridley era, Black males, as symbolized by T'Challa, are "the problem." If one says that T'Challa lied to everyone in Ridley's arc, how many of these other characters were truthful either? Yet, it's T'Challa that gets the blame, which goes along with how Black males are often blamed for just about everything wrong in society in the real world it seems. I don't have an issue with characters taking issue with T'Challa, but give me pushback, give me debate/dialogue, spread the tongue lashing around. T'Challa made decisions for reasons, let us hear them, let him defend himself, and let him be right sometime. Who wants to read a book where the main character gets dumped on constantly, accepts the pile on, and that's it? There's a lot of deconstructing but no rebuilding. I think that's acceptable for Black male characters more so than others because of how Black males have been depicted and perceived in the real world and media now for decades, so Black males, and their fictional avatars, need to be preached to. We are almost to the point where before Ridley's run is over someone is going to tell T'Challa to pull his pants up.

As a Black male reader, personally I get tired of Black characters, particularly Black males, having to "learn" to "do better", particularly in the kind of sermonizing, patronizing ways it's done in the media. Obviously, Ridley thinks this is a necessary lesson Black males in particular need to learn. I don't agree, but even the harshest "lessons" go down easier when you mix sugar with vinegar. Outside of his first issue or two, on this run, it's been all vinegar.

It seems to me that writers like Coates and Ridley and they are not alone in this are using the Black Panther comic and T'Challa to explore and examine their personal issues with/excoriations of (Black) masculinity instead of creating art that builds up T'Challa or even the world of Wakanda which is now supposed to be more important than T'Challa. From Maberry to Ridley, how exactly is even Wakanda a better place than it was under Hudlin or Priest?






Spoilers for novels For Those Who Walk in Darkness/What Fire Cannot Burn:

To be fair to Ridley, he hasn't only deconstructed Black males. I read his superhero novel duology he wrote over a decade or so ago, and his main character, a Black woman was rage-filled and had some unlikeable traits and was unceremoniously killed off in the second book and Ridley had an Asian female protagonist take over from there. It was a neat twist, a shocking one, but from what I recall, it still felt like he could've done better by the first protagonist.

Can't be said any better than what you just laid out my man.

[Steroid]

Same here. And i'm about to put marvel on blast if this continues. i'm not a petty person but i would definitely use any success i garner and anyone i design for that mentions it to tell them my truth. I'm in CT, i'll run across someone with some power to say something at some point and it fuels me to be in one, that i can. I often have conversations with yale students and wall streeters.

Bro it needs to be called out because Marvel as a whole is on some BS agenda. I'll just say it, they are against Black men and what is worse is that they are using Black men that are willing to sell their people out for a damn check to do it.

[Toonstrack]

The problem is that he didn't even bother to come up with any legit reason for this type of fallout. He literally rushed through the whole thing and sling as much undeserving isht as he could to make T'Challa "appear" to be this terrible leader and ruler. It was so contrived and forced that clearly no one can even take this seriously. Plus the complete ass grabbing of his OC characters is equally ridiculous. He had all his OCs getting praised or allowed to take the piss out of Tchalla.

And as it was called last month, absolutely Zero conclusion to anything. T'Challa is bad for "reasons" and no one even knows why Akili did what he did. Completely Bonkers how this was somehow greenlit, published and sold to fans. A literal flaming turd with a middle finger sticking out of it

I dont think they are saying he's terrible. But Ridley IS trying to say that keeping secrets, lying and trusting no one has only caused him snd this nation more problems. Thats been an ongoing theme of the arc thus far.

As for akili, he did it because he didn't like how TChalla was doing things. He didn't support secret agents in hiding that were untraceable and he didn't like the recent events that wakanda had been through, and how tchalla resolved it by going for a democratic approach. So his plan was to just takeover the whole operation himself and do a better job.

Though I would've liked more focus on this as a motive rather than what we got, I will say

He clearly intended this to just be the beginning of the story for this character thats probably going to last the run if he continues it, but there were aspects of this that were pretty rushed in general. Definitely didnd trick everything perfectly, arc could've had a few more issues to just make it to twelve and just given us that extra characterization and story and longer action scenes.

[Toonstrack]

My copy of the latest issue hasn't come in the mail yet, so I can't speak on that. But I have read the rest of Ridley's BP run, and I got to say that his depiction of T'Challa is making a sweeping statement, or rather broad generalization, when it comes to race, specifically Black males, and even more specifically straight Black males, which is right in line with the contemporary discourse and admonition for Black men to just "do better." With T'Challa being perhaps the greatest symbol, a proxy, for (straight) Black males in mainstream comics, how he's depicted, how he's treated, does have larger reverberations and ramifications.

I have no problem with a character that faces challenges, that fails, that has to self-improve, but I see when it comes to Black male characters specifically there seems to be a tendency to have them defined by failure and limitation. In the Coates-Ridley era, Black males, as symbolized by T'Challa, are "the problem." If one says that T'Challa lied to everyone in Ridley's arc, how many of these other characters were truthful either? Yet, it's T'Challa that gets the blame, which goes along with how Black males are often blamed for just about everything wrong in society in the real world it seems. I don't have an issue with characters taking issue with T'Challa, but give me pushback, give me debate/dialogue, spread the tongue lashing around. T'Challa made decisions for reasons, let us hear them, let him defend himself, and let him be right sometime. Who wants to read a book where the main character gets dumped on constantly, accepts the pile on, and that's it? There's a lot of deconstructing but no rebuilding. I think that's acceptable for Black male characters more so than others because of how Black males have been depicted and perceived in the real world and media now for decades, so Black males, and their fictional avatars, need to be preached to. We are almost to the point where before Ridley's run is over someone is going to tell T'Challa to pull his pants up.

As a Black male reader, personally I get tired of Black characters, particularly Black males, having to "learn" to "do better", particularly in the kind of sermonizing, patronizing ways it's done in the media. Obviously, Ridley thinks this is a necessary lesson Black males in particular need to learn. I don't agree, but even the harshest "lessons" go down easier when you mix sugar with vinegar. Outside of his first issue or two, on this run, it's been all vinegar.

It seems to me that writers like Coates and Ridley and they are not alone in this are using the Black Panther comic and T'Challa to explore and examine their personal issues with/excoriations of (Black) masculinity instead of creating art that builds up T'Challa or even the world of Wakanda which is now supposed to be more important than T'Challa. From Maberry to Ridley, how exactly is even Wakanda a better place than it was under Hudlin or Priest?






Spoilers for novels For Those Who Walk in Darkness/What Fire Cannot Burn:

To be fair to Ridley, he hasn't only deconstructed Black males. I read his superhero novel duology he wrote over a decade or so ago, and his main character, a Black woman was rage-filled and had some unlikeable traits and was unceremoniously killed off in the second book and Ridley had an Asian female protagonist take over from there. It was a neat twist, a shocking one, but from what I recall, it still felt like he could've done better by the first protagonist.

So I think we're getting a decent of stuff where black males are getting some actual moments to be right about things or to be the ones making real decisions but I definitely agree with some of your issues with characterizations in general. Im a straight black male reader myself, so I generally try to stay cognizant of these things. Unfortunately for TChalla he's more than just a black guy like was said, he's a king, and monarch in a time when monarchies are side eyed at best. So a lot of his stories get the brunt of writers genersl themes on monarchies and rulership in general, because he's really the only one who can tell that story. Well there's thor, but I think some thor fans would feel similarly to you do on hoe he's been depicted the last decade or so.

So its kinda a double whammy I think. I do agree that black males seem to get pigeonholed a lot more, but I do see silver lining. I would like to see TChalla be able to be right, and be seen as being right, even if a lot of the wakandan supporting cast is very written very blunt about things. I think this book hinted at that but the overarching theme requires him to be taken to a low point and reclaim his glory and revere.

I will say its not all bad thought in entertainment media. MCU had a black man tell a politician to "do better" while wearing the flag. He also respectfully disagreed with another black man who accused him if being a sellout. The milestone stuff has been really solid for me, especially static and Icons books. Icon especially i think will have a lot of what you're looking for. Even riders other stuff like the jace batman(which is probably one of the better bat books running right now imo by proxy) has an imperfect MC but hes still competent and hes still working. Theres other stuff i could nsme outside of capestuff but yeah.. Ridley is taken a slow burn approach with tchalla and coming off of a previous run where some felt similarly, its not exactly what everyone wanted and I get that. I'm just more optimistic about it in general, I guess, lol.

The thing is, I also filly support growth and expansion of Black female stuff, and I dont really think the two should be competing at all. Black females have, in the prior age had an even worse time with representation in entertainment, and I'm all for more characters and stories showing them as competent and intelligent in their own right. I cant really bring myself to fault them for that. But I would've liked to see that character redjsck introduced in the KiB tie in, to show up in other books. That was a cool design.

[DigiCom]

I think this book hinted at that but the overarching theme requires him to be taken to a low point and reclaim his glory and revere.

"Keep reading. It will all pay off at the end!"

We just went through YEARS of Coates partisans claiming that, to no avail.

Ridley set up this arc, and left his main character kneeling on the ground weeping to his ex to not leave him alone.

Where's the payoff in that? Are we supposed to keep swallowing isht like good little zombies on the off-chance Ridley makes the title character look good for a panel?

The arc is OVER. The payoff should have been in THIS ISSUE. Not at some point potentially years down the road, probably when he's ready to leave. Too many writers in comics these days LOVE "deconstructing" heroes, but HATE putting them back together.