YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[Nate Grey]

According to those close to him, he had faith that he was going to beat cancer and was going to prepare to get back in shape for Black Panther 2. It wasn’t until a week before he passed when the reality set in that he wasn’t going to make it.

Yeah by the time he figured out he wasn't going to win the only thing on his mind was spending time with his wife with what little time he had left.

[Mantis-Ray]

Which is why I hate the whole 'its a mantle' argument. Anyone can be Batman, Captain America, Black Panther, Daredevil, Thor, etc. It's not the case.

Hell to use your avatar pic as an example, there have been at least 2 people who have gone by the Power Man identity. And yet which the guy everyone knows?

Like the mantle thing works decently enough in the case of Spider-Man since he is intended to be an average Joe. But not when with characters whose identities are born from highly specific things.

Lets look at Iron Fist. When Danny in the IF show gave Coleen the power and named her Iron Fist, he had no right to do so. To become the Iron Fist there actual conditions to it, train in Kun'Lun become a good enough warrior to be picked, and defeat the dragon gaining its powers.

THATS what makes Iron Fist, it's what makes him unique. You take that away, and you just turn the Iron Fist into a generic superpower.

[MindofShadow]

I'm reminded of this interview by Kelly Sue DeConnick on her Aquaman run where she states the reason she abolished the Atlantean monarchy and turned it into a democracy is because she found the idea of a monarchy "not politically correct". She doesn't think a kingdom is representative of modern American values so she changed it to a democracy cause "Murica, **** yeah, red, white, and blue!"

Which you can probably apply that logic here too. It's very likely that the writers on board don't like T'Challa because they find the idea of him being a heroic king offensive and "not representative of American values"

Its doubly weird in BP case bc Coates doesnt even like america lol.

Bro is an outright critic of all things white suprenacy related and then... mimics it.

Just bizarre

[BlackClaw]

Its doubly weird in BP case bc Coates doesnt even like america lol.

Bro is an outright critic of all things white suprenacy related and then... mimics it.

Just bizarre

Exactly! And how are you gonna say American ideals are what’s right for everyone when you look at all the bs going on in this country right now?!

[Ezyo1000]

Hell to use your avatar pic as an example, there have been at least 2 people who have gone by the Power Man identity. And yet which the guy everyone knows?

Like the mantle thing works decently enough in the case of Spider-Man since he is intended to be an average Joe. But not when with characters whose identities are born from highly specific things.

Lets look at Iron Fist. When Danny in the IF show gave Coleen the power and named her Iron Fist, he had no right to do so. To become the Iron Fist there actual conditions to it, train in Kun'Lun become a good enough warrior to be picked, and defeat the dragon gaining its powers.

THATS what makes Iron Fist, it's what makes him unique. You take that away, and you just turn the Iron Fist into a generic superpower.

It doesn't work for Spiderman either. It only works for things like starbrand , a character purposefully underdeveloped to allow for them to be replaced. It doesn't work when you have one specific person tied to it for an extended period of time. Unless Marvel kept T'Challa out of his franchise for the next 59 year's, anytime you hear the name Black Panther. Immediately you will think T'Challa. That is why it will never be just a mantle, and the talk of it being so is inherently ignorant.

[Ezyo1000]

Its doubly weird in BP case bc Coates doesnt even like america lol.

Bro is an outright critic of all things white suprenacy related and then... mimics it.

Just bizarre

"Man I hate how America treated Black folks on the last and reparations must be made, a nation built on the backs of slaves who were beaten, raped, brutalized and mutilated is not something to be proud of!... alright I'ma input all the most racist, stereotypes I can into this uncolonized advanced black nation, then I'ma add in some Western influences and analogues then end my story with said nation having the most successful and biggiest slave empire to exist!" - Coates logic

[Nate Grey]

"Man I hate how America treated Black folks on the last and reparations must be made, a nation built on the backs of slaves who were beaten, raped, brutalized and mutilated is not something to be proud of!... alright I'ma input all the most racist, stereotypes I can into this uncolonized advanced black nation, then I'ma add in some Western influences and analogues then end my story with said nation having the most successful and biggiest slave empire to exist!" - Coates logic

I'm getting the impression that Marvel only wants to hire people who think T'challa is problematic and needs to be fixed. Coates's hypocrisy (taking ya'll's word on it) is just a manifestation of that, but otherwise is typical of the type of person they look for to write Black Panther these days.

If you say T'challa's problem is that he takes too many L's, I really believe they'd call security on you. Throw you out Jazz style.

[Mantis-Ray]

"Man I hate how America treated Black folks on the last and reparations must be made, a nation built on the backs of slaves who were beaten, raped, brutalized and mutilated is not something to be proud of!... alright I'ma input all the most racist, stereotypes I can into this uncolonized advanced black nation, then I'ma add in some Western influences and analogues then end my story with said nation having the most successful and biggiest slave empire to exist!" - Coates logic

I have noticed Western writers have an issue of associating American problems to non-American countries when they should be having their own issues.

Like X-Men Red by Tim Taylor, he tried to talk about stuff happening in India but all he did was mention the wage gap and backlog American Mutant type discrimination to Indians

He didn't talk about anything that actually pertains to India

[taozen]

I'm reminded of this interview by Kelly Sue DeConnick on her Aquaman run where she states the reason she abolished the Atlantean monarchy and turned it into a democracy is because she found the idea of a monarchy "not politically correct". She doesn't think a kingdom is representative of modern American values so she changed it to a democracy cause "Murica, **** yeah, red, white, and blue!"

Which you can probably apply that logic here too. It's very likely that the writers on board don't like T'Challa because they find the idea of him being a heroic king offensive and "not representative of American values"

Coates basically stated as much from a historical perspective. He said in an interview that a highly advanced society would know that a Monarchy would not thrive which is why he wrote another rebellion in Wakanda. In his head, he could not make it work and dedicated that entire arc to a story to that end. SMH. So many writers do not get its fantasy and one of the challenges is to figure out a way to make it work.

[LukeCagefan]

Hell to use your avatar pic as an example, there have been at least 2 people who have gone by the Power Man identity. And yet which the guy everyone knows?

Like the mantle thing works decently enough in the case of Spider-Man since he is intended to be an average Joe. But not when with characters whose identities are born from highly specific things.

Lets look at Iron Fist. When Danny in the IF show gave Coleen the power and named her Iron Fist, he had no right to do so. To become the Iron Fist there actual conditions to it, train in Kun'Lun become a good enough warrior to be picked, and defeat the dragon gaining its powers.

THATS what makes Iron Fist, it's what makes him unique. You take that away, and you just turn the Iron Fist into a generic superpower.

Notice that my user name is Luke Cage and not Power Man though? He didn't start out as Power Man and most people know him by Luke Cage and aren't aware of him using that alias. But I wasn't talking about every single character, I thought that'd be obvious so let me be more clear. I was speaking in most cases people grow attached to the originals for a reason and replacing them just because is never a good idea. Are there times it's done right? Sure. Wally West is a great example and they're others as well. Lately not so much.

[skyvolt2000]

Which is why I hate the whole 'its a mantle' argument. Anyone can be Batman, Captain America, Black Panther, Daredevil, Thor, etc. It's not the case.

To a certain point they can however in many of the case there is a process behind it.

To be Panther or Wonder Woman-you have to fight for that title.

Shuri getting it handed to her does not make sense because we are using the movie version.

Not the Hudlin version when she would cut your throat and watch and give you no you know whats.

Once she had the suit would NOT be a line of folks ready to take her on?

[LukeCagefan]

To a certain point they can however in many of the case there is a process behind it.

To be Panther or Wonder Woman-you have to fight for that title.

Shuri getting it handed to her does not make sense because we are using the movie version.

Not the Hudlin version when she would cut your throat and watch and give you no you know whats.

Once she had the suit would NOT be a line of folks ready to take her on?

I didn't mean every single time it's done it's a terrible idea. But the execution especially of late for a lot of these decisions leaves a lot to be desired.

[Mantis-Ray]

Coates basically stated as much from a historical perspective. He said in an interview that a highly advanced society would know that a Monarchy would not thrive which is why he wrote another rebellion in Wakanda. In his head, he could not make it work and dedicated that entire arc to a story to that end. SMH. So many writers do not get its fantasy and one of the challenges is to figure out a way to make it work.

Thank you for telling us this, it makes so much sense now. See this is what happens when you get too caught up in realism. Sure Batman is unrealistic but does it really matter?

Reminds me of this thing I found about Jason Aaron, where it turns out he is such a secular rationalist that he has a similar trouble comprehending the very idea of God's and magic, which affects his work.

He by his own admission cannot get himself to believe in those concepts which is why his Thor run centered so heavily on God's suck and his Doctor Strange run focused on the death of all magic.

[Ezyo1000]

I didn't mean every single time it's done it's a terrible idea. But the execution especially of late for a lot of these decisions leaves a lot to be desired.

Even when it was done "Right" Shuri just wasn't that well received. Shuri has nothing interesting about her that's different than T'Challa. Coates few good things was giving her a role that was unique. Magic. But since they retrofitted her to the quippy MCU Disney princess version that makes her taking the mantle make even LESS sense. Same goes for the MCU because she clearly isn't trained to rule, and any attempt to somehow montage her what to the throne I'd just insulting the intelligence of the fanbase. Plus Letitia isn't a strong enough actress to carry the movie

[XJlock]

The latest issue of X-men Red was only a warm up as far as I am concerned. I believe the true test will be T'Challa's confrontation with Sam Wilson.