YIBAMBE! T’Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2022

[chief12d]

Kirby & Macgregor did well enough. I can understand wanting to give an authentic version of BIPOC/LGBT/Latinx/whatever experience, and therefore hiring people that share that perspective.

The problem becomes when you forget that none of these writers (black or otherwise) happen to be the hereditary ruler of an ancient kingdom.

So their perspective doesn't really apply.

Yea that’s a crappy excuse. Hickman did more to expand Wakandan lore than most writers that have come on the book and he wrote the man exclusively in teams. This idea that black writers are somehow incapable of performing their damn job of writing T’Challa because Wakanda is just so interesting is reductive and dangerous reasoning when taken to its logical conclusion. It assumes that the only way to develop Wakanda is to sideline T’Challa or that T’Challa is at some point disposable to his franchise in a way his white peers are not.

[MindofShadow]

Removing my like of Coates work.

Can I ask yall deep question? Seeing people prop up Ewing and Hickman.

Has it gotten to the point where someone that is not black is the main writer for the character? I think the source is so great for T'Challa/Wakanda that you can easily get lost focusing on other things or stuff that's personal to you. Respectfully, a white writer or non black writer probably isn't going to think too deeply about Wakanda and the supplementary parts. Instead will likely just focus on T'Challa itself and keep that first and foremost.

The material lends itself to exploring other topics and themes making T'Challa less critical. Maybe it's time to have someone who might be a bit detached from those kinds of exploratory things and just interested in seeing T'Challa win.

Redjack did well obviously. However, Marvel seems to not have a grasp on who to pick for their projects.

It is just lazy to be honest.

You hire within a race or ethnic group or whatever because then the writer can share ideas, motivations, thoughts, and feelings someone outside of that ethnic group wouldnt' know first hand.

But... T'challa isn't American Black. He's African. And African king of a nation untouched by colonialism. An african king of a super power.

What person on earth can "relate" to that really lol?

Professional comic writers can work with that because it is PURE FANTASY. There is nothing to connect to really... it is like writing Thor for Bast sake. So, you get these professionals like Priest, Aaron, Ewing, Hickman and company and they just role with it because they are used to writing comic book fiction.

These novelists and journalists and newbs try to impart some african-american issues on an AFRICAN KING. And it just doesn't work. There is nothing to connect to here.

[chief12d]

It 1000% has nothing to do with the color of their skin, and everything to do with their thoughts and feelings on a character, and how much they are going to let personal beliefs and biased affect the writing.

We have had some solid showings from Ewing, JA and Hickman in recent years, but we also got frakkery from people like Nick Spencer and Bendis. Just like we had GREAT writing from Redjack, and a decent showing from Narcisse.

So race doesn't matter. It's about the individuals themselves. We already have a black writer who had proven multiple times that he gets T'Challa and do right by him. For some reason though marvel ain't calling him back

Exactly, it’s a flaw in the perception of Black Panther like we discussed a few pages back. As long as there are black faces at the forefront there’s a portion of “fans” who don’t care what happens to T’Challa or actively see him as an impediment to expanding his own franchise. I guess you could say black writers are more likely to fall into that trap but I refuse to believe the only way to get a good BP book is for a white guy to write it (though I’d have no issue, unlike some “fans”). Like I said, we’ve had extraordinary white writers do solid work on exploring the themes and side characters of Wakanda while not decentering or somehow crapping on T’Challa. There are black creators who can do the same, Marvel’s just not hiring them for obvious reasons.

[chief12d]

It is just lazy to be honest.

You hire within a race or ethnic group or whatever because then the writer can share ideas, motivations, thoughts, and feelings someone outside of that ethnic group wouldnt' know first hand.

But... T'challa isn't American Black. He's African. And African king of a nation untouched by colonialism. An african king of a super power.

What person on earth can "relate" to that really lol?

Professional comic writers can work with that because it is PURE FANTASY. There is nothing to connect to really... it is like writing Thor for Bast sake. So, you get these professionals like Priest, Aaron, Ewing, Hickman and company and they just role with it because they are used to writing comic book fiction.

These novelists and journalists and newbs try to impart some african-american issues on an AFRICAN KING. And it just doesn't work. There is nothing to connect to here.

Yea T’Challa’s biggest issue isn’t black writers. It’s not being treated the same way his white counterparts are by being handed over to qualified, experienced creators who understand the medium and what makes the character so appealing. A guy like Coates never would’ve been put on a Thor book for his first run, yet Marvel felt he was good for BP. They made damn sure he got his feet wet ruining T’Challa before they let him touch Captain America and straight up refused to let him write Spider-Man. T’Challa doesn’t enjoy the same amount of protection from crappy writers as other characters with similar profiles, hence why the tone and direction of his books are so different and so frequently underperform relative to them.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

It 1000% has nothing to do with the color of their skin, and everything to do with their thoughts and feelings on a character, and how much they are going to let personal beliefs and biased affect the writing.

We have had some solid showings from Ewing, JA and Hickman in recent years, but we also got frakkery from people like Nick Spencer and Bendis. Just like we had GREAT writing from Redjack, and a decent showing from Narcisse.

So race doesn't matter. It's about the individuals themselves. We already have a black writer who had proven multiple times that he gets T'Challa and do right by him. For some reason though marvel ain't calling him back

I get what you're saying. However, it seems Marvel wants "important Black writers" And I think at times that pedigree becomes an impediment.

And with that comes the feeling of responsibility when portraying something black and powerful. And Im just saying that I can see how people can get sidetracked cause the weight of trying to adapt something to have a cultural impact. I love BP. I've disagreed with a few here on Coogler's take. However, I will admit that his main thesis was "What does it mean to be African?". Now he was really talented enough to make it work.

Obviously Marvel should just hire passionate and talented black writers like Redjack. However, for whatever reason Marvel wants more esteemed black writers who have a non fictional background as well. Such as RIdley with 12 years a Slave/Guerrilla tv series.

I just think/fear Marvel is gonna Marvel and not put the emphasis on lesser known black comic writers yet with the BP franchise as a main writer. Now if/when someone like Redjack or someone else really blows up then they'll come calling (or it'll be too late cause they got the bag elsewhere).
Just saying based on their formula I dont expect things to change much.

Would it shock you in 5 years if Marc Lamont Hill is writing a BP comic?

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Chief, I'm trying to be careful with my words because I'm not trying to be reductive.

I'll take what I said back cause what a few previous writers have done doesnt mean any future writer will do that. Im just saying I get how recent writers perspective (even if I liked/got one of them) could have lost their way with the comic. There is just an added weight/pressure that comes with writing that character today than maybe 10 to 15 years ago.

[skyvolt2000]

Obviously Marvel should just hire passionate and talented black writers like Redjack. However, for whatever reason Marvel wants more esteemed black writers who have a non fictional background as well. Such as RIdley with 12 years a Slave/Guerrilla tv series.

I just think/fear Marvel is gonna Marvel and not put the emphasis on lesser known black comic writers yet with the BP franchise as a main writer. Now if/when someone like Redjack or someone else really blows up then they'll come calling (or it'll be too late cause they got the bag elsewhere).
Just saying based on their formula I dont expect things to change much.

Would it shock you in 5 years if Marc Lamont Hill is writing a BP comic?

If they want a book to get axed FASTER than BP World of Wakanda.

A guy who was part of a black news channel that crashed and burned big time and fired from CNN and Fake News.


What does Redjack have to prove??

More folks know who he is than Hill.

Brandon Thomas also has a better resume. David Walker too.

Hiring Hill or Jemele Hill or Diamond & Silk for attention does not equal a better book. It just gives more ammo to the gators about unqualified folks getting books based on skin color and not talent.

[Ezyo1000]

Exactly, it’s a flaw in the perception of Black Panther like we discussed a few pages back. As long as there are black faces at the forefront there’s a portion of “fans” who don’t care what happens to T’Challa or actively see him as an impediment to expanding his own franchise. I guess you could say black writers are more likely to fall into that trap but I refuse to believe the only way to get a good BP book is for a white guy to write it (though I’d have no issue, unlike some “fans”). Like I said, we’ve had extraordinary white writers do solid work on exploring the themes and side characters of Wakanda while not decentering or somehow crapping on T’Challa. There are black creators who can do the same, Marvel’s just not hiring them for obvious reasons.

And this i don't even understand. No one cares about these characters that are taking spotlight from T'Challa, they don't sell at all. They are terribly written and are generally just a mouth piece that say a bunch of stupid surface level isht. Honestly, between the MA and Omolola, I think o hate her more than they MA, and those two are SUPER BAD.

Yet these writers come in and start parading around their OC pet characters and want to make them important and do it in the way that most amateur fanfic writers insert their OCs into stories and try to Make them relevant.

Those aren't real fans, because real fans know that if they truly want these characters to shine, they need to be built up alongside T'Challa and not be written in a way of "Look how much better they are then T'Challa

[Ezyo1000]

I get what you're saying. However, it seems Marvel wants "important Black writers" And I think at times that pedigree becomes an impediment.

And with that comes the feeling of responsibility when portraying something black and powerful. And Im just saying that I can see how people can get sidetracked cause the weight of trying to adapt something to have a cultural impact. I love BP. I've disagreed with a few here on Coogler's take. However, I will admit that his main thesis was "What does it mean to be African?". Now he was really talented enough to make it work.

Obviously Marvel should just hire passionate and talented black writers like Redjack. However, for whatever reason Marvel wants more esteemed black writers who have a non fictional background as well. Such as RIdley with 12 years a Slave/Guerrilla tv series.

I just think/fear Marvel is gonna Marvel and not put the emphasis on lesser known black comic writers yet with the BP franchise as a main writer. Now if/when someone like Redjack or someone else really blows up then they'll come calling (or it'll be too late cause they got the bag elsewhere).
Just saying based on their formula I dont expect things to change much.

Would it shock you in 5 years if Marc Lamont Hill is writing a BP comic?

They literally did this exact same thing with Cap marvel years ago. They picked up "known names" to write her comics And they were absolutely dog isht. Then eventually they realized that giving the book to a writer who actually cares and understands the medium Will give more long term stability than the arbitrary inflated sales of some knownename who quickly crater's in sales.

This ain't a black person issue. This is a specific marvel chosing people who don't care for the character issue

[Redjack]

1. Evan and I could make the franchise a showpiece.

2. There comes a point where there's almost zero chance my pitches for the character(s) would get anywhere near what the company wants for them, regardless of sales. We may be past that point. I have no interest in furthering the mythology as it's progressed over the last few years and my Big Pitch, without being an attack on any of that work (it's not. I never attack the prior writers for doing with their ideas exactly what i would do with mine if i was driving) would still be too far away from they seem wot want for T'Challa and Wakanda.

3. If the THOR book suddenly stopped being about Thor and focused instead on all the supporting characters who live in Asgard, the audience would riot, no matter how well-written or drawn.

4. I don't think it's possible now for ANY Black Panther run to exist without massive controversy. Trust me. if MARVEL called me tomorrow and said, "Green Light, brother, do anything you need to do with the title." THE INSTANT that became news, the knives would come out ,calling me every name in the book before anyone had read one word.

I don't actually care about that chatter (as if) but that's what would happen. And my run would absolutely remove everything I don't like about the last few years– in-story, without hand waves. Do we really think Marvel is signing up for that? Doubt it. Highly.

You can tell from my writing of the character what I think about him and his supporting cast. There actually is a way to have the cake and eat it vis a vis T'Challa and Shuri and all that. It's sitting right there in the existing text if they want to connect those dots. But the folks who own it have to want to and they'd need to give me at least two years to make it go.

WILDLY unlikely.

[BlackClaw]

So we’d need a complete regime change at editorial to get anything close to what you would propose. Got it.

[Tofali]

Priest would have looked at the character and the setting and built from that but current writers are just one perspective. Priest will be writing Kahndaq split between ppl with a progressive democratic movement and another who want things to remain as is but Ridley didn't highlight any kind of movement just total acceptance to democracy.

[MindofShadow]

Chief, I'm trying to be careful with my words because I'm not trying to be reductive.

I'll take what I said back cause what a few previous writers have done doesnt mean any future writer will do that. Im just saying I get how recent writers perspective (even if I liked/got one of them) could have lost their way with the comic. There is just an added weight/pressure that comes with writing that character today than maybe 10 to 15 years ago.

If you want to say this though, than it should be acknowledged that he shouldn't be a "first step" character for these writers then.

He should be treated like Thor, Hulk, Spider-Man, ect.

It should be earned.

And they had TWO black writers who "earned the right" ready to go and they chose newb for his name. and he utterly failed at his goal, "make t'challa some kids spider-man."

I mean, if you wanna say Geoffrey is too "green" to write BP... they had David Walker there too. Someone who wrote Shaft, Cyborg, Nighthawk, Luke Cage lol. You can't "step up" the black ladder any better than that in comics.

[Tofali]

Was Coates ever asked if he feels like he accomplished his goals in making Black Panther "some kid's spider-man"? Was there an Interview after the end of his BP run?

[DigiCom]

Was Coates ever asked if he feels like he accomplished his goals in making Black Panther "some kid's spider-man"? Was there an Interview after the end of his BP run?

Narcisse did one. Bit of a puff piece: https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2...ates-interview