Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Mercury]

Thoughts? Idk, I don't see Jean here but maybe others will see differently. Attachment 121118
https://movieweb.com/xmen-actors-mcu/amp/

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Thoughts? Idk, I don't see Jean here but maybe others will see differently. Attachment 121118
https://movieweb.com/xmen-actors-mcu/amp/

I would like a real redhead to play her.

On the list in general, I like some of these and dislike some.

+ Not recasting the excellent Prof and Mags we already have
- Another light-skinned Storm? Bad form.
- I just don't see Radcliffe as Wolverine, but maybe
+ I feel like I hear about Timothee C all the time, but I actually can see Nightcrawler in him.

[Grinning Soul]

Oh, I know the meaning of the idiom and how it's used. However, since neither attempt against Jean has been successful, your use of it could be taken to mean that this time, they would successfully take her down.

Now that it would matter because will live in the age of Krakoa and the resurrection protocols, lol.

My reaction was similar to Havok83's, but focusing on the judgement part. I thought: "do we need to see someone judging her for the D'Bari system a third time?" And a joke was born: "Maybe Marvel thinks third time is a charm".

Really: it was just sarcasm. Nothing too elaborate.

Because if I think about it, it'd be kinda hard to sell that the Celestials would be all that bothered about it. But since previous stories don't count for much nowadays... unfortunately, it's possible we will see her being judged for it yet a third time.

I bet some people will be thrilled, though.

[Omega_DCD]

As far as I'm concerned, D'Bari has been dealt with various times and it's really beating a dead...well...D'Bari, at this point.

First in Classic X-Men #43, we see Jean's consciousness as the White Phoenix personally build a place for all of their souls, as well as VIVIDLY relive their moment of involuntary destruction at the hands of Dark Phoenix, and also those aboard the Shi'ar starship that bore witness







The guilt was so intense that Jean/Phoenix passed out, which leads too...

[Omega_DCD]

Jean's time-displaced mind inhabiting her White Phoenix self and remembering D'Bari again, in X-Men Forever #3

[Omega_DCD]

Not to mention that...

Jamaica Bay/Cocoon Jean experienced D'Bari's destruction and denied the return of the borrowed portion of her own life force because she considered it tainted.




Jean ALSO relived the experience when her memories linked with Star Hammer's in UXM #387




Plus from Morrison's run, D'Bari has been recontextualized as "something that doesn't work"...and the concept of the White Hot Room and evolutionary dead ends

[Omega_DCD]

Furthermore post-D'Bari, Jean has directly helped save other worlds such as during in X-Factor's Judgement War...and teen Jean helped Phoenix save a world from Galactus and his hunger

[Grinning Soul]

Omega_DCD, honey, as usual, you're making too much sense.

The problem is: haters will hate. It doesn't matter what you argue or what you show them from the actual books. Don't waste your precious time.

Still, thanks so much for posting those pages. We - the fans who actually appreciate the character - also appreciate it.

[loke13]

I wonder if the Celestials will target Jean due to Dark Phoenix’s decimation of D’Bari and for being instrumental in blowing Arishem’s hand away…

I'm assuming this will take place in a X-Men tie in. Which would explain why Duggan has been slowly referencing Jean's time as DP/Phoenix.

[Mercury]

My reaction was similar to Havok83's, but focusing on the judgement part. I thought: "do we need to see someone judging her for the D'Bari system a third time?" And a joke was born: "Maybe Marvel thinks third time is a charm".

Really: it was just sarcasm. Nothing too elaborate.

Because if I think about it, it'd be kinda hard to sell that the Celestials would be all that bothered about it. But since previous stories don't count for much nowadays... unfortunately, it's possible we will see her being judged for it yet a third time.

I bet some people will be thrilled, though.

Gotcha!

As far as I'm concerned, D'Bari has been dealt with various times and it's really beating a dead...well...D'Bari, at this point.

First in Classic X-Men #43, we see Jean's consciousness as the White Phoenix personally build a place for all of their souls, as well as VIVIDLY relive their moment of involuntary destruction at the hands of Dark Phoenix, and also those aboard the Shi'ar starship that bore witness

The guilt was so intense that Jean/Phoenix passed out, which leads too...

Jean's time-displaced mind inhabiting her White Phoenix self and remembering D'Bari again, in X-Men Forever #3

Not to mention that...

Jamaica Bay/Cocoon Jean experienced D'Bari's destruction and denied the return of the borrowed portion of her own life force because she considered it tainted.

Jean ALSO relived the experience when her memories linked with Star Hammer's in UXM #387

Plus from Morrison's run, D'Bari has been recontextualized as "something that doesn't work"...and the concept of the White Hot Room and evolutionary dead ends

Furthermore post-D'Bari, Jean has directly helped save other worlds such as during in X-Factor's Judgement War...and teen Jean helped Phoenix save a world from Galactus and his hunger

Thanks for going out of your way to reference all of these moments, with scans to boot! I really appreciate it! 🙏🏼😘 And please, never see what you do as a waste of time! It’s informative and important to remind other fans of Jean’s history!

The problem is: haters will hate. It doesn't matter what you argue or what you show them from the actual books. Don't waste your precious time.

Still, thanks so much for posting those pages. We - the fans who actually appreciate the character - also appreciate it.

I’m sorry if I’m misreading this post as being potentially directed at me, but the only person who has posted about and shown slight interest in the Celestials judging Jean over Dark Phoenix’s crimes and attacking Arishem has been me. I only mentioned this possibility because the synopsis for Judgment Day #3 and #4 includes the following:

…in the second act of the event where various heroes and villains stand for judgment. Defending their past actions and mistakes in fascinating ways…

Couple that with the fact that Jean is on the cover, and it got me thinking: Could she be one of the heroes that “stand[s] for judgment” for “past actions and mistakes” and, if so, what could those actions and mistakes be? (Incidentally, I know covers can be misleading and that Jean won Mark Brooks’ poll to be the central character on the cover, but he also later revealed she was always going to be on the cover either way. I genuinely wonder why.)

To be clear, there are several other stories I’d rather be told than another one depicting Jean being the target of persecution due to Dark Phoenix’s actions. However, aside from what she and Scott did to Arishem’s hand, I can’t think of any other past actions or mistakes of hers for which they would judge her. Perhaps the time she ”heal[ed] a wounded universe” as White Phoenix or subsequently returned in Endsong and Resurrection?

In either case, my enthusiasm for either of the above mentioned scenarios is really only rooted in the fact that, as I stated before, Gillen is writing and I love his work, especially on the Eternals. But I certainly appreciate Jean as a character, along with her intricate history, and am definitely not hating. Also, if I misread your post as being directed at me, I apologize in advance! 🙏🏼

[Mercury]

I'm assuming this will take place in a X-Men tie in. Which would explain why Duggan has been slowly referencing Jean's time as DP/Phoenix.

This is something else, i.e., Duggan’s references, that had me thinking this could happen. We’ll find out soon enough!

[Grinning Soul]

I’m sorry if I’m misreading this post as being potentially directed at me, but the only person who has posted about and shown slight interest in the Celestials judging Jean over Dark Phoenix’s crimes and attacking Arishem has been me.

Of course you're misreading it. I'm crazy but only a complete lunatic would think you're a hater.

No. I'm talking about those people that every now and then pop up here for god-knows what reason (edited: the ones whose comments get deleted by the mods for obvious reasons or the type that is always giving the most negative spin to *everything* Jean does and many times haven't even actually read the comics - you know the type). And the ones who hate her on the rest of the forums.

Some people, even though they might not say it openly, want Jean gone. Either dead or forgotten in the cosmic corner of the MU.

[Mercury]

Of course you're misreading it. I'm crazy but only a complete lunatic would think you're a hater.

No. I'm talking about those people that every now and then pop up here for god-knows what reason (edited: the ones whose comments get deleted by the mods for obvious reasons or the type that is always giving the most negative spin to *everything* Jean does and many times haven't even actually read the comics - you know the type). And the ones who hate her on the rest of the forums.

Some people, even though they might not say it openly, want Jean gone. Either dead or forgotten in the cosmic corner of the MU.

Thank you for the clarification, and again, I apologize for misunderstanding your post. I thought by “haters” you meant people who downplayed how many times Jean has been persecuted for Dark Phoenix’s actions and are not averse to the Celestials judging her because of that. If Gillen is going to make her one of the mutants targeted for judgment by the Celestials for “past actions and mistakes,” the only other actions for which I can see them doing so are her returns in Endsong and Resurrection, which I suppose can be categorized as an additional form of deviancy. Maybe and hopefully, Gillen has something else in mind. I just hope gets a chance to write her for some length!

[Grinning Soul]

Thank you for the clarification, and again, I apologize for misunderstanding your post. I thought by “haters” you meant people who downplayed how many times Jean has been persecuted for Dark Phoenix’s actions and are not averse to the Celestials judging her because of that. If Gillen is going to make her one of the mutants targeted for judgment by the Celestials for “past actions and mistakes,” the only other actions for which I can see them doing so are her returns in Endsong and Resurrection, which I suppose can be categorized as an additional form of deviancy. Maybe and hopefully, Gillen has something else in mind. I just hope gets a chance to write her for some length!

No, not at all. I think any fan can have valid reasons to want to see a story being executed without being motivated by any malice towards a given character.

But the haters are motivated by hate. They will want to see this story because they want Jean to be punished [EDITED: and by punished, I mean gone]. No other outcome will be enough for them, no matter how well-written the story turns out to be.

[Mercury]

No, not at all. I think any fan can have valid reasons to want to see a story being executed without being motivated by any malice towards a given character.

I'm glad to hear this. Also, more than anything else, I just want Gillen to write something substantial for her. I mean, honestly, this story—i.e., Judgment Day—is going to be so far-reaching and can go so many ways, it's anyone's guess how it will ultimately impact mutants and, more specifically, Jean. I mean, not that I think nor would want it to happen, but any writer worth their salt could find a way to make this event the perfect catalyst for Jean and the Phoenix Force reuniting. I just throw that out there as an extreme example of how far this event could go.

Incidentally, I also think that Judgment Day will usher in a more character-driven era, however long or brief. A few writers of intimated as much, with the most recent one I can recall being Duggan, who spoke about the "soap opera" and emotionally-driven character moments being more prominent in year two of X-Men. We'll see if this turns out to be the case. As I've said before, I've come to consider Hickman's run as a sort of prologue or first act to a much larger story, of which we're just about to enter act two.

But the haters are motivated by hate. They will want to see this story because they want Jean to be punished [EDITED: and by punished, I mean gone]. No other outcome will be enough for them, no matter how well-written the story turns out to be.

Oh, I've seen those types of fans of other characters/detractors of Jean. I usually chalk up their takes to sophomoric envy, since they often equate Jean being "gone" with their favorite character(s) becoming more focal and/or receiving better treatment, and rarely pay them any mind. As I'm sure you know, I tend to get more worked up over Jean fans who spout endless negativity but can't bring themselves to enjoy or comment on a nice moment like the one we saw yesterday in X-Men Unlimited #35. Granted, I wouldn't categorize that scene as major or groundbreaking, but it is reverent to and cool for Jean.