Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Exodus]

Jean = Phoenix.

It is not a power-up. She was born human and transcended into god-hood. But right now in her current state she refuses to leave her humanity behind and actively chooses to stay human. That's how I see it now.

[Dam]

Celestial made Jean cry, I hope she does the same to him. This issue was perfect, Gillen manages to get the essences of the characters (just like Iron Man).
A masterpiece. Power, intelligence, anger and empathy : MOTHER JEAN

The issue had everything to be perfect but it had too much of wolverine and was totally unnecessary, part of dialogues with him were awful and hard to read.
Who I need to pay to keep Wolverine away from Jean?
The art was perfect 10/10.

[Dam]

This was hands down one of the single best Jean issue. Top 5 material for sure

ETA: Thoughts on the black variant of Jean's costume?

The black variant is the one I like the most. I love it.

[Mercury]

Do you think Jean being "the Phoenix now and forever" is going to be explored further? Because the Phoenix has literally been all over the place lately and I am very curious on how it is going to be moving forward or even explained with the other random hosts.

This issue was so good - her display of powers and the recognition that she has been given have exemplified why Jean Grey fans are so gung-ho about her. The Celestial basically equating her to it was like DAMN, our Omega Queen is considered on a god level.

Welcome, Apechei! First, let me say that Gillen did a fantastic job of alluding to and explicitly pointing out Jean's cosmic nature, which is very much in line with Claremont's vision for her. It isn't just that the Progenitor compared Jean to itself and declared her "the Phoenix, now and forever" but also that it referred to her as "something," rather than someone, and likened her to a "red dragon," which has connotations in Chinese lore similar to Phoenix's mythos. As I noted above, the red dragon is associated with the "God of Fire" and "the emperor, the creator, the orderly, and the celestial power" (see link posted above). All of this is very telling and, in my opinion, was meant to underscore that 1) Jean isn't an ordinary mortal mutant and 2) her very nature is rooted in the Phoenix Force—she is "the Phoenix, now and forever"!—but is also still very much a mystery. This was good!

Gillen also spotlighted Jean's immense power and uniqueness quite nicely. He had Sersi admit that the Eternals' telepathy is "nothing compared to hers," Sinister reveal that he has never been able to truly clone her because "she is unique" (Madelyne is not her equal, after all), and Ajak refer to her as a "significant being" based on what Jean was able to accomplish this issue, which doesn't make Ajak's word choice any less interesting or, shall we say, significant. Not to mention the fact that Jean was able to accomplish what none of them could—not even Sersi, who is a cosmic-level telekinetic, or "matter manipulator"—i.e., "holding a miniature sun apart." In fact, the running theme of the entire issue was Jean's incredible power and the mystery surrounding it.

Regarding your question, I am not sure if it will be explored further anytime soon, and I'm okay with that. Her foundation has been firmly established/REestablished, and that feels great. To be fair, though, both Dark Web, which drops in December, and Sins of Sinister, which drops in January, may touch upon this facet of her character. After all, Leinil Yu had this to say regarding who is on the cover of Wolverine #29, which drops in January:





We'll see.

[Havok83]

Do you think Jean being “the Phoenix now and forever” is going to be explored further? Because the Phoenix has literally been all over the place lately and I am very curious on how it is going to be moving forward or even explained with the other random hosts.

This issue was so good - her display of powers and the recognition that she has been given have exemplified why Jean Grey fans are so gung-ho about her �������� The Celestial basically equating her to it was like DAMN, our Omega Queen is considered on a god level ��

YES! Considering that Gillen touched up on Jean's decision to leave the QC, I think this plotline will continue in Immortal X-men. She was set up to have regrets here and we may see her come back into the QC sphere. Maybe not as a member but definitely challenging them. Considering Hope's connection to the PF, I think we could see the Phoenix explored there and Jean is key to that

Jean = Phoenix.

It is not a power-up. She was born human and transcended into god-hood. But right now in her current state she refuses to leave her humanity behind and actively chooses to stay human. That's how I see it now.

I could see that. I think this event is also showing that she doesnt "need" the PF in the way that its been portrayed as a power up. Jean is almost as powerful without it on her own merits

[SugarMan]

I took that to be just the Celestial's opinion and I don't think it will be explored further.

I'm just glad the issue didn't try to further reduce her history as Phoenix.

This issue was supposed to be definitive, and I think fans reading it should take it as such.

A.X.E.: X-MEN #1 will examine Jean Grey's intricate relationship with the Phoenix Force, burning away the mystery behind their connection once and for all.

Jean is Phoenix. Not a host.

[andreikes]

I took that to be just the Celestial's opinion and I don't think it will be explored further.

I'm just glad the issue didn't try to further reduce her history as Phoenix.

The Celestial judges people on their subjective perspectives... So Jean "thinks" that she and the phoenix are one (?)

[Subliminally]

The celestial was spying on Jean and Emma?




Also, I have a question for the Phoenix PHD folks here.

Wouldn't it be possible for Jean as the Phoenix to resurrect the world she destroyed? Or go back in time to stop her from doing it? All this guilt is getting a bit tiresome imo.

[Havok83]

The celestial was spying on Jean and Emma?




Also, I have a question for the Phoenix PHD folks here.

Wouldn't it be possible for Jean as the Phoenix to resurrect the world she destroyed? Or go back in time to stop her from doing it? All this guilt is getting a bit tiresome imo.

What does PHD stand for?

By world, you mean the D'Bari planet? She could but that could have unforseen consequences. It's why time travel to change events is taboo and not something that tends to be done. And that would just create a new timeline, not change the current one. Phoenix would have to burn this one away and that wouldnt be worth it

And I like that she has guilt. It shows that she's human and flawed. She's always taken responsibility for that and I love the accountability on her part

[Subliminally]

What does PHD stand for?

By world, you mean the D'Bari planet? She could but that could have unforseen consequences. It's why time travel to change events is taboo and not something that tends to be done. And that would just create a new timeline, not change the current one. Phoenix would have to burn this one away and that wouldnt be worth it

And I like that she has guilt. It shows that she's human and flawed. She's always taken responsibility for that and I love the accountability on her part

Well I use it as someone who's ultra knowledgeable about the character who would have a concrete or as close to concrete answer to what my question was.

Normally I'd agree but wouldn't Jean/Phoenix be able to SEE what those consequences would be via the white hot room? I'm thinking about that New X-men arc where she deleted that weird timeline to set up the one we have now. If she could do that then surely she could nudge her past self to perhaps eat a star where the surrounding planets had no life?

I guess that's a pov as well. Not one that I would pick but to each their own.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

This issue was supposed to be definitive, and I think fans reading it should take it as such.





Jean is Phoenix. Not a host.

The Celestial judges people on their subjective perspectives... So Jean "thinks" that she and the phoenix are one (?)

Ah, see. The issue was not definitive at all. Is she Phoenix or does she think she is terms of just her mindset? Or is it just that the Celestial thinks she is Phoenix because he has no interest in petty canon to absolve her?

I was hoping for definitive new/corrective Phoenix mythology, but it essentially didn't say anything and left us where we were at the beginning of the issue, interpreting it however we feel like.

[Tank]

Jean = Phoenix.

It is not a power-up. She was born human and transcended into god-hood. But right now in her current state she refuses to leave her humanity behind and actively chooses to stay human. That's how I see it now.

I mean this issue explicitly states Jean is Phoenix. The celestial says she is like him. Sinister said he could never properly clone Jean and he is unique. Further evidence to Jean as phoenix, since there is something inherently unique about her and her essence that cant merely be copied or duplicated.

[Mercury]

Also, I have a question for the Phoenix PHD folks here.

Wouldn't it be possible for Jean as the Phoenix to resurrect the world she destroyed? Or go back in time to stop her from doing it? All this guilt is getting a bit tiresome imo.

As White Phoenix, I believe she could do it, but that would require her embracing and manifesting the full range of her abilities.

My take: She’s not only unwilling to transcend humanity to do this but is also scared to achieve apotheosis. This is partly due to her trauma-induced actions as Dark Phoenix. However, it is also a very human thing to fear losing one’s mortal identity and relationships to delve into the known unknown.

On a side note, it makes so much sense that Defenders #3, in which Taaia, Galactus’ mother, utters a phrase only Jean has uttered (twice to Ororo) dropped just a few weeks before this issue. Gillen and Ewing’s synchronicity not only doesn’t seem like a mistake or coincidence but is also rather perfect, actually.

[Havok83]

Powerful Queen Jean moment.

I hope Jean tears that Celestial apart as the Psionic Goddess!

I still see the costume as green with shadowed highlights.

I dont know. It looks undeniably black to me

Well I use it as someone who's ultra knowledgeable about the character who would have a concrete or as close to concrete answer to what my question was.

Normally I'd agree but wouldn't Jean/Phoenix be able to SEE what those consequences would be via the white hot room? I'm thinking about that New X-men arc where she deleted that weird timeline to set up the one we have now. If she could do that then surely she could nudge her past self to perhaps eat a star where the surrounding planets had no life?

I guess that's a pov as well. Not one that I would pick but to each their own.

Lets say you are right. If she is able to see the consequences of reversing the massacre, then maybe its not worth reversing. So much in the world would have changed had Jean not gone Dark Phoenix. The whole trajectory of the X-men and the universe would change. For all we know that could be for the worse. Jean needed to not be around for certain things to happen

[Mercury]

I dont know. It looks undeniably black to me

Frankly, I love the black.