Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Cyclone_Ablaze]

Power levels always depend on the writer, really.

Current era, if the X-office is writing it, I'm gonna go with Moondragon.

I would say YES, Jean is more powerful than Heather. However, the two have never fought. Moondragon is a very powerful psychic and has some strong feats.

Same. From what i've seen of moon dragon i would say she is. Purely talking telepathically. Like for instance Jean is an omega tp but writers don't have her lean in on it. Like imagine jean talking to all the spores telepathically at that level, to control a mind so small or barely there and she simply commanded them to leave and the spores did it. To me that would have been a better feat than having rogue go "oh now we have two omegas." which to me was completely ambiguous. But personally i think Jean should be stronger but Moondragon has had some good focus from some of the most imaginative writers. But jean isn't the only one to suffer overall the x-writers don't seem to have much imagination for telepathy. I would expect much like Storm who used her powers on nanites as an omega jean should be able to find the mind of any entity with time, in theory if there is an ai on orichis base jean should be able to tell it to fly into the sun. I want to see things like that if we are talking purely what an omega telepath should be like. Jean should be able to psionically influence others to use their powers or block them from being able to, just so much my mind thinks of when i think what omega tp should look like.

Instead of psionic blockers lets see them have to come up with something new or blocker on top of blocker. I mean it does a disservice to jean when regular psi blocks that a non omega telepath can't get by stops her because the very nature of her powers should be able to get beyond that. even a circuit board in a way is a thinking system but with a repetitive function.

I guess i'm just BIASED, but I think it should be Jean.

I mean what can Moondragon do?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

If you google Mutant Telepath the list goes. Not sure if the results are universal or not.

I don't know if the results are the same for all but if you google mutant telepath the list goes
Psylocke.
Emma Frost. ...
Apocalypse. ...
Quentin Quire. ...
Legion. ...
Cable. ...
Hope Summers. ...
Stepford Cuckoos. Also known as Three-In-One, the Stepford Cuckoos are a set in incredibly gifted triplets who were star students of Professor X's psychic course at the X-Men academy. ...

To me that shows it's on the x-line to rebuild Jean not only as an omega level telpath but as a telepath of the highest order.

Jus to be clear when you click on the link Jean is number 2 but what i am aiming at is her visibility as a premiere telepath. and descending order 10 ten lists won't help.

She's first for me, but this is probably running on SEO from before this era lmao

And I'm sure Google knows I'm all about Jean.

[jwatson]

She's first for me, but this is probably running on SEO from before this era lmao

And I'm sure Google knows I'm all about Jean.

lol. well i'm glad it showed up like that. we should have a post on these. lol.

googlemutants.jpg

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

No offense, but you guys can't Google lol.

What you all are seeing there is that it is pulling that list directly from that sideshow.com link.

That said, I gotta go see what the hell this sideshow.com writer was thinking.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

That list is a countdown.

They have Jean ranked #2, the f&%$@#* haters!

[jwatson]

That list is a countdown.

They have Jean ranked #2, the f&%$@#* haters!

that's what i mean but if you look at it in points like displayed on my screenshot he average person, will most likely type in one of those names rather than go all the way down and press more items so your search shows up more beneficially than mine did where yours shows jean in the list before more items. lol Also reading through these i never thought about it before but kudos to those who update it (the wikis) with passion because imagine how many people get their info from it first. @@

or if they like me just highligt the name and right click and be like search google for "option"

[jwatson]

I guess i'm just BIASED, but I think it should be Jean.

I mean what can Moondragon do?

I will just say research her bio as i'm not one to pimp another character in someone else appreciation thread. I also think a problem is writers and fans created this term op which to me means limits. You just have to make the threats matter and effect the characters in ways that make them weak. And not every "op" villain is looking to or needs to destroy or want to destroy everything. So not every op threat needs to be treated as the end of all existence, especially when a lot of your heroes could mean or do the same thing.

[Cyclone_Ablaze]

I will just say research her bio as i'm not one to pimp another character in someone else appreciation thread. I also think a problem is writers and fans created this term op which to me means limits. You just have to make the threats matter and effect the characters in ways that make them weak. And not every "op" villain is looking to or needs to destroy or want to destroy everything. So not every op threat needs to be treated as the end of all existence, especially when a lot of your heroes could mean or do the same thing.

OK. So, I did look over Moondragons Feats. And i'm sorry i'm not impressed.

SO, I am going to Stick with Jean on that.

[jwatson]

OK. So, I did look over Moondragons Feats. And i'm sorry i'm not impressed.

SO, I am going to Stick with Jean on that.

cool. i'm actually in agreement with you she should be. and undisputed at that. her power is suppose to be so strong xavier who everyone says is the strongest in the universe blocked it, feared it. i can't remember xavier fearing the potential of another telepath. Especially a child.

[Del torro]

Can I ask a Serious Question to the Jean Fans.

Is Jean Grey More Powerful than Moondragon? And can Jean Beat Moondragon?

Going by their interactions with Knull, I'd say Jean is stronger.

Knull on earth defeated and took down Moondragons Astral form in another galaxy through his symbiote dragon.

Knull VS Jean, well, we know how that worked out

[Cyclone_Ablaze]

cool. i'm actually in agreement with you she should be. and undisputed at that. her power is suppose to be so strong xavier who everyone says is the strongest in the universe blocked it, feared it. i can't remember xavier fearing the potential of another telepath. Especially a child.

Going by their interactions with Knull, I'd say Jean is stronger.

Knull on earth defeated and took down Moondragons Astral form in another galaxy through his symbiote dragon.

Knull VS Jean, well, we know how that worked out

Thank YOU BOTH. And I agree.

You guys have confirmed what I was saying in my Debate against another User on Twitter. :-)

[MechaJeanix]

Can I ask a Serious Question to the Jean Fans.

Is Jean Grey More Powerful than Moondragon? And can Jean Beat Moondragon?

I don't usually get into versus discussion, but going by Hickman's definition for an omega telepath (and Jean is omega level for her telepathy) Jean would have to outclass Moondragon. If Moondragon could surpass Jean then Jean would not be an omega (even though Moondragon is not a mutant - they explain Forge isn't an omega because humans can outdo him in inventing or whatever).

[Del torro]

I don't usually get into versus discussion, but going by Hickman's definition for an omega telepath (and Jean is omega level for her telepathy) Jean would have to outclass Moondragon. If Moondragon could surpass Jean then Jean would not be an omega (even though Moondragon is not a mutant - they explain Forge isn't an omega because humans can outdo him in inventing or whatever).

Lmfao
Funny how Hickman used forge as an example of what is not an Omega
And then Ewing came up and said, Forge is now an Omega

[Cyclone_Ablaze]

I don't usually get into versus discussion, but going by Hickman's definition for an omega telepath (and Jean is omega level for her telepathy) Jean would have to outclass Moondragon. If Moondragon could surpass Jean then Jean would not be an omega (even though Moondragon is not a mutant - they explain Forge isn't an omega because humans can outdo him in inventing or whatever).

That's a Good Point Sir. Thank You. :-)

Lmfao
Funny how Hickman used forge as an example of what is not an Omega
And then Ewing came up and said, Forge is now an Omega

Your right.
I mean after Hickman left it just seemed ALL BETS where Off. Synch is to be a Possible Omega, and Forge is now one LOL.

[Celestialbodies]

More like explain it away. I think WPotC implies some level of importance that the anti-stans in editorial do not want her to have. Maybe he establishes it as something inconsequential, like WPotC is a title that rotates every year or something.



Marvel loves situations how Madelyne and Moira were situated. The entire point of removing the Phoenix is to Spartan Kick the redhead down a few pegs lol. Too much pomp, power, and regality for the type of character they want Jean to be.

This reminds me actually. There's another thread about Jean and a certain anchor character in which the topic of Claremont seeing Jean as this sort of eternal figure came up. THAT is exactly what bugs about the Phoenix being with Jean...it makes her something that the lead character of the X-Men isn't, and that simply won't do. I think they would be fine with Jean/Phoenix if they made the lead character cosmic in comparable or more powerful way.

It's just dudes being mad because they gave the lead character's girlfriend Thor-level powers when the lead character isn't as poweful himself. It all comes back to toxic masculinity in the end, if you ask me, but it'll be interesting to see how it gets dressed up, and why we needed points reiterated that Rosenberg already did a touchdown dance about.

I gotta agree, I feel like Jean is perpetually stuck in a cycle unable to fully evolve without outgrowing the men in her life whether that be her personally life(Scott), her professional development(Xavier), or her truest nature(Logan) without writers feeling like her story is coming to a close. So much of her history has been stunted forcing her to continuously outgrow who she was before the next writer resets her all over again. From NXM to XMR, Jean imo, should have a ton more development and should be in more stable place, but I feel like we're constantly waiting on the next big thing to happen with her which is few and far in-between.

That's how I feel as well. I'm curious to see more of how Gillen will approach Jean, but worry that it's going to result in more of Jean being separated from what is truly hers.

Yeah, I'm really just so tired of things being taken from her. It would be different if it were used to evolve the character, but she is written so passive in regards to essentially everything that nothing matters. I don't know what story Gillen is going to tell, I will say Marvel has so consistently butchered, removed, or regressed her development sometimes I wonder if writers simply have nothing to say with the character, or if their not allowed to tell a comprehensive story through her. We have multiple writers on record across decades saying they had ideas for stories for Jean and being shot down. Some of the biggest moments for the character never happened...

Can I ask a Serious Question to the Jean Fans.

Is Jean Grey More Powerful than Moondragon? And can Jean Beat Moondragon?

Current Moondragon? If Jean, is written with any form of care, then she takes this easily. Moondragon has undergone multiple changes in the last two decades and been severely depowered, apparently all her classic telepathic feats were from possession by the Dragon of the Moon:





There's also things like Moondragon having access to the mind stone which greatly enhances mental abilities. I think if we're speaking about classic Moondragon, every version of Jean outside of the revolution era, NXM, and XMR to the present loses severely. Jean didn't have the feats, combat experience, or overall presence to take on the classic version of Moondragon before the 00's, but to be fair no current X-telepath save for Exodus or Xavier were defeating her in a straight tp battle before the 00's.

Power levels always depend on the writer, really.

Current era, if the X-office is writing it, I'm gonna go with Moondragon.

True, doubly true on the X-office. I'm still waiting to see how the X-psychics mental powers match up against the Eternal, I think the Uni-Mind vs. Xavier, Exodus, Frost, and Hope was a decent showing.