Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[MechaJeanix]

If I may ask, what explanation would be more "concrete and definitive" than "You are the Phoenix, now and forever"? It seems some fans—and this is not aimed at you specifically—wanted or expected Jean to turn into Phoenix in this issue, or for the Progenitor to explain the intricacies of Jean's identity as Phoenix or even White Phoenix, even though such that identity—that dynamic—is far beyond a Celestial's purview and perception.

I mean you aren't wrong - that is a bold statement and considering the source - a powerful celestial it does sound pretty definitive. I guess initially I expected more of an explanation of the connection or even origin of the connection - and I have a few ideas I've posted before like I would say that Jean is the descendant of the cavewoman Phoenix or something like that.

But I do love this issue and I think the issue stands on it is own and is a powerful work. I guess my ideas came from how it was billed and I think that is why a few folks are disappointed but I think those folks are the minority. I am thrilled and overjoyed with the issue. I think it leaves Jean in a great place to continue to move forward. I am very excited to see where Duggan and others take her.

Gillen nailed it and definitely understands Jean Grey.

[MechaJeanix]

X-Men: Dark Web #3 (2023):

I love this cover. I expect good things from this series. I was very happy that Duggan is the writer.
I also love it when the bottom of her costume is colored dark green or black. She looked so good in today's issue.

[Mercury]

I mean you aren't wrong - that is a bold statement and considering the source - a powerful celestial it does sound pretty definitive.

That's exactly right. I think it is definitive.

I guess initially I expected more of an explanation of the connection or even origin of the connection - and I have a few ideas I've posted before like I would say that Jean is the descendant of the cavewoman Phoenix or something like that.

I understand wanting a thorough explanation of Jean's identity as Phoenix; however, I also believe the less it is explained, the better. Besides, Claremont has already given the definitive explanations of who Jean is in Uncanny X-Men, the Classic X-Men backstories, and most recently in the official prequel to Days of the Future Past, Uncanny X-Men #140.5 (2021). Now, if I had to define their "relationship," referencing Claremont's dialogue for Jean in UXM #140.5, I would define it as being inversely proportional. To use Britannica's definition, "as [Jean] becomes larger, [Phoenix] becomes smaller," and "as [Phoenix] becomes larger, [Jean] becomes smaller." Admittedly, even that definition is vague but...not really? Think about it. (Source: https://www.britannica.com/dictionar...y-proportional)

But I do love this issue and I think the issue stands on it is own and is a powerful work.

Indeed.

I guess my ideas came from how it was billed...

Ultimately, Marvel delivered what it promised: To burn away the mystery of Jean and Phoenix's connection once and for all. The "examination," I feel, came by way of the evocative dialogue of Sersi, Sinister, Ajak, and, of course, the Progenitor.

I am thrilled and overjoyed with the issue. I think it leaves Jean in a great place to continue to move forward. I am very excited to see where Duggan and others take her.

Gillen nailed it and definitely understands Jean Grey.

This is what matters: That you are "thrilled and overjoyed with the issue." And yes, it does leave Jean in a great place with lots of possibilities for future stories, development, and exploration.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Maybe they still will actually do an issue that explains the intricacies of her connection or non-connection to the Phoenix later on. Solicits gonna solicit.

[Havok83]

Jean's black costume is giving me X-men Evolution

[5cents]

So many questions but yes this does give way for more stories in the future for Jean. Esp when it comes to doing things that will really matter not just super hero stuff. I kind of want Jean to have a talk with the Phoenix Force and find out what was going on during their DP run.

Also it seems like everything is pointing towards Jean needing to be on the quiet counsel?

[Thirteen]

Great art. Not sure the "voice" sounds much like Jean. "I'm going to annihilate the hypocrite" doesn't sound quite right from Jean. Its got a more Ororo/Magneto pompous tone to it. Jean's dialogue is strong in a different way to my ear.

This was hands down one of the single best Jean issue. Top 5 material for sure

ETA: Thoughts on the black variant of Jean's costume?

If I may ask, what explanation would be more "concrete and definitive" than "You are the Phoenix, now and forever"? It seems some fans—and this is not aimed at you specifically—wanted or expected Jean to turn into Phoenix in this issue, or for the Progenitor to explain the intricacies of Jean's identity as Phoenix or even White Phoenix, even though such that identity—that dynamic—is far beyond a Celestial's purview and perception.

Perhaps from a more reliable narrator than ostensibly the villain of the tale, who is passing judgement and trying to exterminate the planet ?rying to tap into Jean's guilt over the actions of the corrupted Phoenix and such...
(if I'm understanding the plot)

Or to have it be a self-declaration that Jean makes about herself.
I recall a criticism of Jean's portrayal in cinema is that she's the most powerful but always needs someone else to tell her that and it seemed decidedly unempowering as a result.

[Devaishwarya]

Great art. Not sure the "voice" sounds much like Jean. "I'm going to annihilate the hypocrite" doesn't sound quite right from Jean. Its got a more Ororo/Magneto pompous tone to it. Jean's dialogue is strong in a different way to my ear.

Perhaps from a more reliable narrator than ostensibly the villain of the tale, who is passing judgement and trying to exterminate the planet ?rying to tap into Jean's guilt over the actions of the corrupted Phoenix and such...
(if I'm understanding the plot)

Still...she's right though. Zombie Celestial is an abomination and a hypocrite and needs to be put down...though I don't think the Eternals will allow that to happen.
And absolutely yes to the bolded. While I am clearly biased, I personally don't think Gillenister's event is the "think -piece" a lot of critics/fans are making it out to be. It's been doing a whole lot without saying anything different or new that hasn't been said before. Even this issue was basically rehashing things we already knew about Jean.

[Phoenixx9]

What I don't like is that the Celestial is picking that one thing with Jean to Judge her. Granted, that was a lot of lives lost. But everyone has done something wrong/bad/evil in their lives. If one only focuses on that, then the individual is lost. And we know that is not true. Good has come out of bad. People are more than their mistakes and errors no matter how big.

The Celestial was supposed to be judging the individual, not an individual action.

By saying Jean failed, it is like saying no matter all the good she has done, continues to do and will do forever in the future, it does not matter. The Celestial is saying all that good is nothing and means nothing. All of those lives saved are nothing. It really sounds like it wants Jean to give up (definitely not her style!) and/or wants to break her.

I am glad Jean wants to obliterate that Celestial!

[Devaishwarya]

Yupp. Zombie Celestial's wiring/programming is corroded AF. A faulty God judging others for their faults and decreeing Death! because of those faults.

[MechaJeanix]

Jean's black costume is giving me X-men Evolution

I heart X-men Evolution Jean so much -both in look and personality. Jean’s current look is going to go down as a top favorite of mine.

[Exodus]

I heart X-men Evolution Jean so much -both in look and personality. Jean’s current look is going to go down as a top favorite of mine.

for me it really depends on the artists. I think Dauterman's original design is gorgeous. But many artists ignore the specific details and, hence, it is often looking extremely basic without them. There are also too many random X's everywhere for my taste.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

If they wanted to change the costume again, I wouldn't be opposed to it. She has that green and gold onesie with a sash that's pretty cool-looking and even has the "nostalgia" factor that editorial demands of everything Jean Grey.

[Wiccan]

Great art. Not sure the "voice" sounds much like Jean. "I'm going to annihilate the hypocrite" doesn't sound quite right from Jean. Its got a more Ororo/Magneto pompous tone to it. Jean's dialogue is strong in a different way to my ear.

Feels to me like the same Jean who would say "The Phoenix burns what doesn't work. So burn Emma, burn". I like when she's pissed but in a sort of classy way like that. Unlike ghost Jean who was just short of telling Jeen to go **** herself lol.

[Thirteen]

Great art. Not sure the "voice" sounds much like Jean. "I'm going to annihilate the hypocrite" doesn't sound quite right from Jean. Its got a more Ororo/Magneto pompous tone to it. Jean's dialogue is strong in a different way to my ear.]

Feels to me like the same Jean who would say "The Phoenix burns what doesn't work. So burn Emma, burn". I like when she's pissed but in a sort of classy way like that. Unlike ghost Jean who was just short of telling Jeen to go **** herself lol.

AH! JeanPhoenix WOULD say "I'm going to burn it to the ground." with a flash of fire in her eye. That sounds about right.
Remind me a bit of that early Jean/Emma exchange way back when...