Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[davetvs]

Agree. I also don’t think that Jeen being trained by Emma suddenly makes the adult Jean and Emma friends. Jeen was Jean but at the same time wasn’t. Emma and Jean relationship is not a friendly one but neither an antagonistic one. They are coworkers who casually threw shade at each other (and it’s okay), Jean having one time-displaced memory of Emma helping her does not change their relationship much I think.

Jean and Emma are clearly more friendly than they've ever been. Their relationship is snarky but they've gone from dragging one another for filth to playful ribbing. I understand preferring to see Rachel train Jeen, if only to give her a shred of narrative importance, but Emma was probably chosen in an attempt to redeem herself/atone for her role in the Dark Phoenix Saga and her antagonistic relationship with adult Jean, who was still dead at the time.

[Micabe]

Aw, a mom and daughter moment! (behind the scenes of course, since we never get to see this interaction on-panel)

Excalibur v1 #071

[Phoenixx9]

Excalibur v1 #071

Yes....but virtually 30 years ago (1993), LOL!

[Force de Phenix]

Yes....but virtually 30 years ago (1993), LOL!

When people say "retro" I think of the 60's, Golden Age, etc. Now they mean this era.

[Phoenixx9]

When people say "retro" I think of the 60's, Golden Age, etc. Now they mean this era.

Lol.

Well, my original post commenting on a nice drawing of Jean and Rachel sharing a mother/daughter moment and how we do not get to see that today so they must happen behind the scenes. ThenZ posting a scene from 30 years ago really is behind-the-scenes nowadays. It is soooo retro.

[Gnostic]

What book/issue did Rachel fought Xavier? I know it was an AvX tie-in.

[Micabe]

What book/issue did Rachel fought Xavier? I know it was an AvX tie-in.

Avengers Vol 4 #29

[Rising7]

I remember around that time in Adjectiveless there was a brief attempt to make Rachel and John Sublime a thing. compared to that I was ok with Emma/Jeen. I don't disagree with the logic of Rachel as Jeen mentor tho, wish they'd have done more together.

Also in Devil's Reign: X-Men, Jean's modified gala costume looked great imo.

[raidensix]

[CENTER]

This encounter with Xavier meant Rachel's meeting with Hope never happened in that fight. Xavier vs Jean or Xavier vs Rachel battles always have neither Jean nor Rachel using their TK. Xavier's experience may allow him to "overpower" either one but all each has to do is go on TP defensive and then TK-fling Xavier 20 ft up in the air

[Askani's Flame]

I really did enjoy all the small little Jean/Rachel moments we got last year. I love how they basically reconnected without there needing to be so much drama behind it because there wasn't really in drama behind it, it just wasnt happening.

How this ended up.
Attachment 117513
Attachment 117514

That's the T. The only reason there was "drama" was because it looked like the writers were going out of their way to not have them interact even if they were in the same room. While Duggan was the first to do it in Cable, I am really glad Leah gave us some good Jean and Rachel moments. We had be waiting for years for them.

It's much worse when you consider, Rachel was right there and would have made a much better teacher to Jeen. Plus at the time she was also classified as an Omega Level mutant. Just another one of those menial plot points Bendis included to invite controversy such as Cyclops flirting with X-23, Jean kissing Beast out of the blue, and a number of other odd pairings during his run. I personally didn't mind it, but again Rachel would have made a ton more sense at the time.

The problem was that 1) Bendis hated the idea of Rachel; 2) Bendis said that having Jeen interact with too many people from her adult past would put too much baggage on her character (such a cop-out excuse); 3) the reality is that Jeen and Rachel so many similar characteristics that in order for Jeen to find her place Rachel had to be ignored or removed. Of course it would make more sense for Rachel to teach Jean tp vs Kitty or Emma. Jeen was a time displaced teen lashing out at a future that isn't what she expected with immense power. Sound familiar? But the powers that be wanted Rachel and Jean separate so that's why Rachel was sent out "superheroing" in WatX while Jean stayed at the School until BotA when they had their first real interaction. It wasn't til the X-Men Gold and Blue Mojo era did they work together. And we know Bendis doesn't like to play well with others so their relationship and development was only picked up on by Bunn.

[Phoenixx9]

Who won the battle between Xavier and Rachel?

[raidensix]

Who won the battle between Xavier and Rachel?

IIRC, Xavier telepathically put EVERYONE on the battlefield to sleep and edited their memories to forget his presence, hence, Rachel remembering encountering Hope and letting her go. The only one un-affected was Spider-Woman due to her SHIELD psi-shields.

Xavier did a similar mind-wipe of Jean, Bobby, Warren and Hank at their reunion after Xavier got his new body.

[Alex.]

Just want to say that I'm glad the green dress is apparently retired, but the new look looks kind of cheap when drawn by Noto. Hopefully it won't be the case for other artists.

[Tank]

Just want to say that I'm glad the green dress is apparently retired, but the new look looks kind of cheap when drawn by Noto. Hopefully it won't be the case for other artists.

I think it’s more a case of Noto drawing everyone looking like midgets. His art is bad.

So Jean appeared in xmen devil’s reign where she debuted her new costume but is still a boring pacifist.

Then she appears in Death of Doctor Strange: xmen/black night where the xmen really didnt serve a purpose
other than being demonized. It was more Black Knight related.

Then her 3rd appearance in X Lives of Wolverine #1 as Wolverine’s love interest.

And then finally appears infinity Lives of Wolverine #1 where it is explained she sends Wolverine’s mind to the past while serving as anchor.

Lots of appearances but ultimately meaningless on the character development front.

[Celestialbodies]

I think it’s more a case of Noto drawing everyone looking like midgets. His art is bad.

So Jean appeared in xmen devil’s reign where she debuted her new costume but is still a boring pacifist.

Then she appears in Death of Doctor Strange: xmen/black night where the xmen really didnt serve a purpose
other than being demonized. It was more Black Knight related.

Then her 3rd appearance in X Lives of Wolverine #1 as Wolverine’s love interest.

And then finally appears infinity Lives of Wolverine #1 where it is explained she sends Wolverine’s mind to the past while serving as anchor.

Lots of appearances but ultimately meaningless on the character development front.

So, perfectly balanced as all things for Jean should be?