Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Celestialbodies]

Oh trolling Jean is a pastime. You probably remember fake-outs to make people think she was coming back while she was dead lol. And peeps at Marvel dumped on her a time or two in interviews during the Emma/Scott heyday. It's just the thing to do.

Please don't take me back to this period almost every interview from writers, to editors, to the EIC were all about how Scott deserved better and Jean held him back from being a "real" man. If we could survive that period we honestly can endure anything...


I apologize for this rant:


But I'm really frustrated with this entire situation because it all seems like an unnecessarily mean joke at Jean's expense with no payoff. I'm struggling to understand what was the point or more importantly exactly why couldn't Jean simply wear her most recent costume the RD redesign at the very least if they had no intention of putting her in anything else?

And speaking openly if I may, I'm a little annoyed that Hickman adamantly expressed that Jean must stay in the green dress. Meanwhile, Scott is immediately given a new costume and Emma has a new wardrobe nearly every appearance. The optics of which gives very much Jean is the older outdated choice and Emma is new, vibrant, and fresh. I'm probably reading too much into it, but I guess I'm wondering what we're the in-story reason, and why is it such a big deal to allow Jean to simply wear the XMR costume?

I'll end by saying it's entirely possible that Duggan has a great issue already written addressing this. But I doubt it's going to pay off a question 3 years in the making. The fact that Lorna received a new costume, and Duggan requested a new costume for Sunfire is also not lost on me. But maybe just maybe Marvel will surprise us....

[Exodus]

But I'm really frustrated with this entire situation because it all seems like an unnecessarily mean joke at Jean's expense with no payoff. I'm struggling to understand what was the point or more importantly exactly why couldn't Jean simply wear her most recent costume the RD redesign at the very least if they had no intention of putting her in anything else?

And speaking openly if I may, I'm a little annoyed that Hickman adamantly expressed that Jean must stay in the green dress. Meanwhile, Scott is immediately given a new costume and Emma has a new wardrobe nearly every appearance. The optics of which gives very much Jean is the older outdated choice and Emma is new, vibrant, and fresh. I'm probably reading too much into it, but I guess I'm wondering what we're the in-story reason, and why is it such a big deal to allow Jean to simply wear the XMR costume?

I'll end by saying it's entirely possible that Duggan has a great issue already written addressing this. But I doubt it's going to pay off a question 3 years in the making. The fact that Lorna received a new costume, and Duggan requested a new costume for Sunfire is also not lost on me. But maybe just maybe Marvel will surprise us....

I also do not get it. Look at Storm? She wore three different gorgeous costumes in two years. No idea why they felt the need to be so rude towards the Jean Grey fanbase who criticized this outdated costume and nonetheless kept her in this dress for years? But in the end Marvel also kept Jean Grey dead for 10 years barely using the character. I don't really get it but there seems to be some kind of bias when it comes to the character Jean Grey in the x-office.

But we still see her in the comicbooks. There are other characters who are just not getting used at all or are only wallpaper. We cannot say the same thing about Jean Grey. She is always central to certain books.

[Grinning Soul]

Jean Grey sells. It's that simple.

Marvel tried to strip and give *everything* that was hers to other characters and two interesting things have always happened:

1) Those things don't work as well on other characters
2) Jean continues to be loved

So, yes, I remember those years after her death in Morrison's run. Those disgusting interviews and even the in-comics mockery. Those guys *hate* that they can't kill or diminish Jean no matter how much they try. So they, reluctantly, decided it was too stupid to fight against her. The girl sells, after all, and they're hurting themselves more than they hurt her.

The dress was their way to punish her and her fans.

Her being allowed to wear something else show how desperate they are for sales. Nothing more.

[Mercury]

...

Let me just remind myself of some good news:

• Jean is donning a modified version of her Dauterman look, which may lead to him designing other Gala looks for her that could double as new uniforms.
  
• Duggan is game with bringing back Jean's psionic energy absorption ability.
  
• Duggan has admitted that Jean "crushes at end of year 1."

Color me happy.

[5cents]

A costume change. This doesn’t feel real lol. I hope Dauterman gets to do the reveal.

[Mercury]

Jean will be appearing in Devil’s Reign: X-Men #1 and The Death of Doctor Strange: X-Men/Black Knight #1, which both drop on 1/19. There will probably be some going back and forth between her Gala suit and the dress due to scheduling conflicts until all these storylines sync up.

[mike7171]

Jean Grey sells. It's that simple.

Marvel tried to strip and give *everything* that was hers to other characters and two interesting things have always happened:

1) Those things don't work as well on other characters
2) Jean continues to be loved

So, yes, I remember those years after her death in Morrison's run. Those disgusting interviews and even the in-comics mockery. Those guys *hate* that they can't kill or diminish Jean no matter how much they try. So they, reluctantly, decided it was too stupid to fight against her. The girl sells, after all, and they're hurting themselves more than they hurt her.

The dress was their way to punish her and her fans.

Her being allowed to wear something else show how desperate they are for sales. Nothing more.

I consider Jean's death in Morrison's run the dark ages. After "Here Comes Tomorrow"....i stopped buying comics altogether. I just filled my fanboy itch through message boards.

[Mercury]

I consider Jean's death in Morrison's run the dark ages. After "Here Comes Tomorrow"....i stopped buying comics altogether. I just filled my fanboy itch through message boards.

Aw! Well, thankfully, she's back! I think she's headed for some great developments.

Also, the rumor now is that both Sophie Turner and James McAvoy will appear in DS2: MoM, as Jean and Professor X, respectively.

https://twitter.com/RPK_NEWS11/statu...53241512538113

[Gnostic]

Aw! Well, thankfully, she's back! I think she's headed for some great developments.

Also, the rumor now is that both Sophie Turner and James McAvoy will appear in DS2: MoM, as Jean and Professor X, respectively.

https://twitter.com/RPK_NEWS11/statu...53241512538113

That's a fake account. Here is the real one.

https://twitter.com/RPK_NEWS1

[Writerblog]

Jean Grey sells. It's that simple.

Marvel tried to strip and give *everything* that was hers to other characters and two interesting things have always happened:

1) Those things don't work as well on other characters
2) Jean continues to be loved

So, yes, I remember those years after her death in Morrison's run. Those disgusting interviews and even the in-comics mockery. Those guys *hate* that they can't kill or diminish Jean no matter how much they try. So they, reluctantly, decided it was too stupid to fight against her. The girl sells, after all, and they're hurting themselves more than they hurt her.

The dress was their way to punish her and her fans.

Her being allowed to wear something else show how desperate they are for sales. Nothing more.

It was pure trolling. Hickman out, dress is out

[Micabe]

Jean will be appearing in Devil’s Reign: X-Men #1 and The Death of Doctor Strange: X-Men/Black Knight #1, which both drop on 1/19. There will probably be some going back and forth between her Gala suit and the dress due to scheduling conflicts until all these storylines sync up.

Really? A twofer? Awesme!

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Please don't take me back to this period almost every interview from writers, to editors, to the EIC were all about how Scott deserved better and Jean held him back from being a "real" man. If we could survive that period we honestly can endure anything...


I apologize for this rant:


But I'm really frustrated with this entire situation because it all seems like an unnecessarily mean joke at Jean's expense with no payoff. I'm struggling to understand what was the point or more importantly exactly why couldn't Jean simply wear her most recent costume the RD redesign at the very least if they had no intention of putting her in anything else?

And speaking openly if I may, I'm a little annoyed that Hickman adamantly expressed that Jean must stay in the green dress. Meanwhile, Scott is immediately given a new costume and Emma has a new wardrobe nearly every appearance. The optics of which gives very much Jean is the older outdated choice and Emma is new, vibrant, and fresh. I'm probably reading too much into it, but I guess I'm wondering what we're the in-story reason, and why is it such a big deal to allow Jean to simply wear the XMR costume?

I'll end by saying it's entirely possible that Duggan has a great issue already written addressing this. But I doubt it's going to pay off a question 3 years in the making. The fact that Lorna received a new costume, and Duggan requested a new costume for Sunfire is also not lost on me. But maybe just maybe Marvel will surprise us....

Part of my thing is...the books weren't/aren't even good enough to be trolling. I grew up on the internet and can appreciate a good troll, but trolling Jean is old hat and anyway...they should have been focused on making X of Swords not be a mess instead of wasting mental space on antagonism lol

[Lukmendes]

And speaking openly if I may, I'm a little annoyed that Hickman adamantly expressed that Jean must stay in the green dress. Meanwhile, Scott is immediately given a new costume and Emma has a new wardrobe nearly every appearance. The optics of which gives very much Jean is the older outdated choice and Emma is new, vibrant, and fresh. I'm probably reading too much into it, but I guess I'm wondering what we're the in-story reason, and why is it such a big deal to allow Jean to simply wear the XMR costume?

I remember being surprised that Hickman was defending the costume, never got the impression he would care to pick an old school costume like that and want to keep it that badly.

It could be a case of him saying that to make it look like it's not editorial mandated, but, he's leaving and Jean is changing costumes now, so he probably was the one keeping it around lol.

I also do not get it. Look at Storm? She wore three different gorgeous costumes in two years. No idea why they felt the need to be so rude towards the Jean Grey fanbase who criticized this outdated costume and nonetheless kept her in this dress for years? But in the end Marvel also kept Jean Grey dead for 10 years barely using the character. I don't really get it but there seems to be some kind of bias when it comes to the character Jean Grey in the x-office.

But we still see her in the comicbooks. There are other characters who are just not getting used at all or are only wallpaper. We cannot say the same thing about Jean Grey. She is always central to certain books.

Whatever the bias is, it might actually be a, for the lack of a better word, tradition, 'cause I've heard that for so damn long they kept screwing over her character way before this, like, wasn't she supposed to be the one who kicks Onslaught's ass before that was changed?

Part of the reason is definitely sexism, it's not hard to see how female characters get screwed over, but there's likely a bias against Jean on top of that too...

[Mercury]

I remember being surprised that Hickman was defending the costume, never got the impression he would care to pick an old school costume like that and want to keep it that badly.

It could be a case of him saying that to make it look like it's not editorial mandated, but, he's leaving and Jean is changing costumes now, so he probably was the one keeping it around lol.

Whatever the bias is, it might actually be a, for the lack of a better word, tradition, 'cause I've heard that for so damn long they kept screwing over her character way before this, like, wasn't she supposed to be the one who kicks Onslaught's ass before that was changed?

Part of the reason is definitely sexism, it's not hard to see how female characters get screwed over, but there's likely a bias against Jean on top of that too...

One pattern I've noticed, which bothers me because I fight against doing this myself, is the tendency of a sizable portion of Emma fans to deride Jean in some form or fashion, usually to prop up Emma. This tendency has prompted me to go from being indifferent towards to actively disliking Emma, which has also been informed by a lot of recent research into her character, too, of course. I'm sorry, but I find it extremely difficult to appreciate a character that has been abusive towards children/adolescents, no matter how much "fun" they may be, especially when they haven't made proper amends.

Three Emma fans of notoriety that I've seen do this have been Hickman, Leah Williams, and the host and creator of CerebroCast Connor Goldsmith. They've each used their high platforms to demean Jean in some way. Hickman blamed her for destroying a planet; Williams tried tying Ororo being depicted as a slave in the DPS to Jean's "sexual fantasies; and Goldsmith has mischaracterized her as a "bully" and "bitch." However, to give credit to Goldsmith, he and I recently had an interesting discussion on Twitter regarding Jean, and he was certainly receptive to and respectful of my point of view, and seemingly prompted to tweet the following:

I do feel the need sometimes to note that I love Jean Grey lmao. She drives me crazy, but like a sister. (Very Maddie of me, I guess!) When I clown on her it is 100% with love. I first read Dark Phoenix when I was like, 8. I love that lady.

In either case, I brought this up because, although I've fought against using this as a reason for some of Hickman's choices regarding Jean, it's clear to me that he had a bias towards Emma and against Jean, which, again, seems par for the course for a number of Emma fans. In the end, though, we don't know why Hickman made some of the choices he made, particularly regarding the uniform and costume regression and the nonsensical use of her abilities. However, if I look at this situation objectively, I have to recognize the amount of hate and vitriol that was flung his way by certain Jean fans, which is certainly not cool or conducive to him treating her better.

Thankfully, we're past that now.

[Gnostic]

Yeah, Dark Phoenix is known for Phoenix being evil, impressions like that stick, even if told otherwise lol.

Yeah, and its not just the movie. I remember when Marvel did an animated plot summary with their TLDR series and accurately described the premise being about Jean going mad. There were a lot of people in the comment section telling them that they are wrong. lol How can people be this closed-minded.