Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[andreikes]

X Lives preview... Percy is not letting Jean/Logan die I guess.

"... Loved me better" oh maan, soo saad

Forcing this Jean and Wolvie relationship... What the f*... Prof X could do it himself.

[loke13]

X Lives preview... Percy is not letting Jean/Logan die I guess.

Love it. They've always had great chemistry same with Cyke but for different reasons. Glad to see Percy is the one writer keeping the open relationship open.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

That could be love as in friends.

Anyway, I will probably always love them as a thing, but I don't expect much action specifically from Jeannie in this series, unfortunately.

On another note, I LOVE that Percy has X and Jean as Wolveine's partners in this. Not just because I like Jean and Logan, but because her connection to Xavier needs work too.. Jean hit consigliere status with Xavier back in the Morrison run, and technically she did it long before then, playing secret-keeper for him. That's just kinda been ignored. She and Xavier should have more time on panel as partners. Hope there is more than what's in this preview.

Same with her connection to Magneto. They STILL haven't really had dialogue since he literally magneted her to death, even though they should be at the same level of status.

The X-office is so whack towards Jean. Potential everywhere and we see almost none of it besides the most basic stuff possible. "Hurr hurr you DO like borrowing things!" *eye roll*

Impromptu rant over.

[Spiderfan001]

https://www.comicsxf.com/2022/01/13/...lack-knight-1/
Everyone else looks great except Jean...

[andreikes]

https://www.comicsxf.com/2022/01/13/...lack-knight-1/
Everyone else looks great except Jean...

Jean is always a joke...

[Spiderfan001]

Jean is always a joke...

Was expecting her to be a phoenix or the pink form or smth smh

[Sylarmax]

https://www.comicsxf.com/2022/01/13/...lack-knight-1/
Everyone else looks great except Jean...

XD XD i like this. Lol

[MarvelMaster616]

That could be love as in friends.

Anyway, I will probably always love them as a thing, but I don't expect much action specifically from Jeannie in this series, unfortunately.

On another note, I LOVE that Percy has X and Jean as Wolveine's partners in this. Not just because I like Jean and Logan, but because her connection to Xavier needs work too.. Jean hit consigliere status with Xavier back in the Morrison run, and technically she did it long before then, playing secret-keeper for him. That's just kinda been ignored. She and Xavier should have more time on panel as partners. Hope there is more than what's in this preview.

Same with her connection to Magneto. They STILL haven't really had dialogue since he literally magneted her to death, even though they should be at the same level of status.

The X-office is so whack towards Jean. Potential everywhere and we see almost none of it besides the most basic stuff possible. "Hurr hurr you DO like borrowing things!" *eye roll*

Impromptu rant over.

That's how I read it too. I feel like a lot of people are freaking out about this preview for totally unwarranted reasons. I don't understand it. Friends can and do love each other. It's not the same love that someone has for a spouse or parent. There are different kinds of love. I think that applies to Jean and Logan in the Krakoa era. They are close. They have been for years. And Jean is a psychic who has been inside his mind. Of course she'd know him better than most. And she's shown, long before Krakoa, that she cares about him. That doesn't need to be romantic beyond a certain point.

I think the way it's written is left open to interpretation. That has been the case with the whole Cyclops/Jean/Wolverine dynamic since Krakoa began. And I think Percy has made it work. He's shown that Jean and Logan still deeply care about each other. But he's also shown that theirs is a somewhat open relationship. Wolverine did hook up with another woman during the surfing issue. But he's Wolverine. That's what he does. And he's the best at it. Nuff said!

[andreikes]

That's how I read it too. I feel like a lot of people are freaking out about this preview for totally unwarranted reasons. I don't understand it. Friends can and do love each other. It's not the same love that someone has for a spouse or parent. There are different kinds of love. I think that applies to Jean and Logan in the Krakoa era. They are close. They have been for years. And Jean is a psychic who has been inside his mind. Of course she'd know him better than most. And she's shown, long before Krakoa, that she cares about him. That doesn't need to be romantic beyond a certain point.

I think the way it's written is left open to interpretation. That has been the case with the whole Cyclops/Jean/Wolverine dynamic since Krakoa began. And I think Percy has made it work. He's shown that Jean and Logan still deeply care about each other. But he's also shown that theirs is a somewhat open relationship. Wolverine did hook up with another woman during the surfing issue. But he's Wolverine. That's what he does. And he's the best at it. Nuff said!

What I hope is that he doesn't randomly kill Jean again.

[Writerblog]

"... Loved me better" oh maan, soo saad

Forcing this Jean and Wolvie relationship... What the f*... Prof X could do it himself.

Percy really out there ignoring that Wolverine married Mariko.

[BESTXMAN]

Percy is a fan fiction writer. He treats Jean like a sex object for Logan.

[5cents]

https://www.comicsxf.com/2022/01/13/...lack-knight-1/
Everyone else looks great except Jean...

I’m so confused lol

[ThePhoenix]

Sorry to bust in but I wanted to comment this in the 2021 thread. The phoenix "killers" (https://twitter.com/WitchOfSteeI/sta...40518883868673) Some names shouldn't be there...

Weak/Normal Phoenix/Phoenix Five hosts tier

• Thanos (without the Infinity Gauntlet) but he was oneshotted by Thane a weak Phoenix host who didn't understand its power.
• Thor (regular Thor is at the bottom of this Tier) with Odin-Force Thor and Odin-Force Odin being close to the top.
• Wanda is at the top of the Tier.

Green Phoenix/Dark Phoenix Jean Tier

• Galactus (at his best)
• Wanda at her best is a very loose maybe.
• Odin-Force Thor with Power Cosmic could also be here since he killed Galactus by absorbing his Power Cosmic.

White Phoenix of the Crown Tier

• Beyonders
• Molecule Man (at his best)
• Living Tribunal

Also with White Hot Room being revealed as the Mystery and being further than Far Shore and outside of the Multi Eternity then I don't believe that any being in this list is of that Tier of power.

Again if the list is bad to include beings like Wanda, Thor, Odin and Thanos. To even kill the Phoenix Force (it will return anyway...) even without a good Host is outside of their power.

Apart from the above this looks beautiful to me.

[Starchilde]

Sorry to bust in but I wanted to comment this in the 2021 thread. The phoenix "killers" (https://twitter.com/WitchOfSteeI/sta...40518883868673) Some names shouldn't be there...

Weak/Normal Phoenix/Phoenix Five hosts tier

• Thanos (without the Infinity Gauntlet) but he was oneshotted by Thane a weak Phoenix host who didn't understand its power.
• Thor (regular Thor is at the bottom of this Tier) with Odin-Force Thor and Odin-Force Odin being close to the top.
• Wanda is at the top of the Tier.

Green Phoenix/Dark Phoenix Jean Tier

• Galactus (at his best)
• Wanda at her best is a very loose maybe.
• Odin-Force Thor with Power Cosmic could also be here since he killed Galactus by absorbing his Power Cosmic.

White Phoenix of the Crown Tier

• Beyonders
• Molecule Man (at his best)
• Living Tribunal

Also with White Hot Room being revealed as the Mystery and being further than Far Shore and outside of the Multi Eternity then I don't believe that any being in this list is of that Tier of power.

Again if the list is bad to include beings like Wanda, Thor, Odin and Thanos. To even kill the Phoenix Force (it will return anyway...) even without a good Host is outside of their power.

Apart from the above this looks beautiful to me.

Yeah, the list of “Phoenix killers” was so random and out of context to me. Just Jason Aaron trying to do fanservice that didn’t really work. The thing that bothers me is his implication that the Phoenix can be killed. I’m 100% sure that it can’t be killed? How can you kill it? At best the Phoenix has been shattered, and automatically born again into a Phoenix Egg. And the only people who I can think of that have “shattered” the Phoenix are ironically Xorn(eto) and... Tony ?

And if we take the “No more Phoenix” into consideration is just the same.

[Celestialbodies]

I also do not get it. Look at Storm? She wore three different gorgeous costumes in two years. No idea why they felt the need to be so rude towards the Jean Grey fanbase who criticized this outdated costume and nonetheless kept her in this dress for years? But in the end Marvel also kept Jean Grey dead for 10 years barely using the character. I don't really get it but there seems to be some kind of bias when it comes to the character Jean Grey in the x-office.

If there was any follow up to these developments I could understand the choice, but the trolling and dismissive nature of those in charge of her character leaves a lot to be desired!

I can't for the life of me understand Marvel, apprehension on going all in on Jean. The best she's ever been used is her teenaged version, as soon as the adult version returned she was quickly placed back into the mold she was in prior to the end of Morrison's run.

Jean Grey sells. It's that simple.

Marvel tried to strip and give *everything* that was hers to other characters and two interesting things have always happened:

1) Those things don't work as well on other characters
2) Jean continues to be loved

So, yes, I remember those years after her death in Morrison's run. Those disgusting interviews and even the in-comics mockery. Those guys *hate* that they can't kill or diminish Jean no matter how much they try. So they, reluctantly, decided it was too stupid to fight against her. The girl sells, after all, and they're hurting themselves more than they hurt her.

The dress was their way to punish her and her fans.

Her being allowed to wear something else show how desperate they are for sales. Nothing more.

Agreed with all of this!


I'm fascinated that her costume change has to be an announcement and something kept under wraps because fans were asking about the context of her wearing something 60 years old. Poor Jean, she has not been able to catch a break in this era, and the irony is I thought Hickman's era was going to explore so much of her potential boy was I complete and utterly wrong lol!

It was pure trolling. Hickman out, dress is out

I wish we could have gotten a single panel explaining why instead of a pure troll job.

Part of my thing is...the books weren't/aren't even good enough to be trolling. I grew up on the internet and can appreciate a good troll, but trolling Jean is old hat and anyway...they should have been focused on making X of Swords not be a mess instead of wasting mental space on antagonism lol

Say it again for the readers in the back!


The amount of vitriol she received you would have thought they were telling the best X-stories ever. Yeah outside of the characters, and HOM most of that era stories have been forgotten and with good reason.

I remember being surprised that Hickman was defending the costume, never got the impression he would care to pick an old school costume like that and want to keep it that badly.

It could be a case of him saying that to make it look like it's not editorial mandated, but, he's leaving and Jean is changing costumes now, so he probably was the one keeping it around lol.



Whatever the bias is, it might actually be a, for the lack of a better word, tradition, 'cause I've heard that for so damn long they kept screwing over her character way before this, like, wasn't she supposed to be the one who kicks Onslaught's ass before that was changed?

Part of the reason is definitely sexism, it's not hard to see how female characters get screwed over, but there's likely a bias against Jean on top of that too...

I honestly hoped Hickman might use Jean similarly to his Invisible Woman, I could not have imagined he would be so ambivalent to her character which is fine. But forcing that costume on us was unnecessarily mean. Jean doesn't have the best taste but she has a variety of more appropriate costumes, the XMR costume would have been just fine for this era. But given that nearly all of her development in that costume was lost maybe he wanted to factory reset her!

One pattern I've noticed, which bothers me because I fight against doing this myself, is the tendency of a sizable portion of Emma fans to deride Jean in some form or fashion, usually to prop up Emma. This tendency has prompted me to go from being indifferent towards to actively disliking Emma, which has also been informed by a lot of recent research into her character, too, of course. I'm sorry, but I find it extremely difficult to appreciate a character that has been abusive towards children/adolescents, no matter how much "fun" they may be, especially when they haven't made proper amends.



In either case, I brought this up because, although I've fought against using this as a reason for some of Hickman's choices regarding Jean, it's clear to me that he had a bias towards Emma and against Jean, which, again, seems par for the course for a number of Emma fans. In the end, though, we don't know why Hickman made some of the choices he made, particularly regarding the uniform and costume regression and the nonsensical use of her abilities. However, if I look at this situation objectively, I have to recognize the amount of hate and vitriol that was flung his way by certain Jean fans, which is certainly not cool or conducive to him treating her better.

Thankfully, we're past that now.

Honestly, I've grown to like Emma a lot over the last 10 years, however I despised the character and how Marvel viewed her for years prior. Her fans specifically with the stamp of approval from Marvel higher up made me fundamentally unable to support her. Everything she had during that period was as a result of my favorite character suffering and to see salt rubbed in the wound and told Jean wad sub-par in comparison lit a fire of hate.

Fortunately, I can readily admit Emma has earned her placed within the X-men but more importantly she is an incredibly complex character. There's no one like Emma in comics, I just wish her contemporaries received the kinds of attention she does consistently. She has a unique voice and perspective but so does many of the X-women, of which seldom is it explored.

I don't hate what Hickman did with Emma I think he's firmly established her place amongst the X-men for years to come. I do however think much of how he went about it was heavy-handed, forced, and contrived. Morrison will always be my favorite writer for Emma, because while she was his favorite he had no problems giving her, her comeuppance and demonstrating her actions had consequences. Something most writers, forget to do or portray in the most superficial ways possible which Hickman fell into!


Also what happened, to you why are you BANNED?!?!?!?

Beautiful!!!

That could be love as in friends.

Anyway, I will probably always love them as a thing, but I don't expect much action specifically from Jeannie in this series, unfortunately.

On another note, I LOVE that Percy has X and Jean as Wolveine's partners in this. Not just because I like Jean and Logan, but because her connection to Xavier needs work too.. Jean hit consigliere status with Xavier back in the Morrison run, and technically she did it long before then, playing secret-keeper for him. That's just kinda been ignored. She and Xavier should have more time on panel as partners. Hope there is more than what's in this preview.

Same with her connection to Magneto. They STILL haven't really had dialogue since he literally magneted her to death, even though they should be at the same level of status.

The X-office is so whack towards Jean. Potential everywhere and we see almost none of it besides the most basic stuff possible. "Hurr hurr you DO like borrowing things!" *eye roll*

Impromptu rant over.

I honestly don't dislike Jean/Logan a few years ago I would have wanted them together. My only issue with them now, writers Percy especially doesn't demonstrate why these two people care about each other. I don't know what their connection is in this era other than knowing they love each other, same with Scott to be honest. Why do these two men love her, what does Jean do for Logan that's different than Rose, or Mariko? How does she make him a better person, how does he make her one?

I feel like that's a major issue with the Krakoan era, relationships aren't properly defined or at least those involving the women. I feel like Wolverine/Nightcrawler is probably my favorite relationship of this era second only to Magneto/Professor X. The most recent Inferno 4 issue higlights exactly what I mean when I talk about what characters mean to each other. While Xavier and Erik spend the issue searching for Moira, it's their relationship that is the most developed and nuanced, Hickman goes out of his way to include in-story beats to explain what his male characters feel and think in a way his female cast doesn't receive. I don't even think Destiny/Mystique has been as defined as some of his male friendships. None of this has anything to do with Percy, or Duggan lack of focus on Jean/Scott/Logan but it is an overarching problem with this era.