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  1. #5536
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    It pains me to see my fellow fans torture themselves with anger and disappointment over depictions of their favorite characters in an event that has barely kicked off. I understand it, though. Everyone wants to see their chosen characters shine and be treated with dignity and sensitivity, which is completely understandable. I just want everyone to be happy, dammit! ::cries::
    Yes, exactly. You and I and a few other keep saying this but then there are all of them that sadly just refuse to hear.

    I hope everyone gets to see their favorite shne, and I am sure we will.

    This is a huge multi-issue saga which has only just begun. Be patient.

    Goodness will follow. Especially for Jean!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  2. #5537
    Mighty Member andreikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    It pains me to see my fellow fans torture themselves with anger and disappointment over depictions of their favorite characters in an event that has barely kicked off. I understand it, though. Everyone wants to see their chosen characters shine and be treated with dignity and sensitivity, which is completely understandable. I just want everyone to be happy, dammit! ::cries::
    Having different opinions is quite common. The event has barely begun, what is left for us to do is speculate, some in a positive way, some in a negative way. I hope for the best, but from what I've seen in the past... well... It's Gillen the writer who makes us think better, but he's not exempt.
    I don't think it's necessary to take the comments so seriously. 90% of the people here like Jean and some writers. I don't like Hickman and Duggan, but I've never attacked them, so much so that I think they write other characters well. Take it easy, the journey is long and we will complain when we feel it is necessary to complain

  3. #5538
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreikes View Post
    Take it easy, the journey is long and we will complain when we feel it is necessary to complain
    :::cries:::

    I'm going to start nibbling on you in a minute.

  4. #5539
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    Claremont’s Jean revelations and hot takes from the Chicago Comic & Entertainment Expo today:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ComicsXF/...84032347869189






  5. #5540

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Claremont’s Jean revelations and hot takes from the Chicago Comic & Entertainment Expo today:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ComicsXF/...84032347869189





    And that's why I can't settle. Claremont may love him some storm but what they made him do to jean broke his heart. -_;
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
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  6. #5541
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And that's why I can't settle. Claremont may love him some storm but what they made him do to jean broke his heart. -_;
    Louise did say Jean was his “total favorite.” I loved how he reiterated that Jean and Phoenix are one in Uncanny X-Men #140.5. He really will not accept any other take, lol.

  7. #5542
    You look like trouble. Tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Claremont’s Jean revelations and hot takes from the Chicago Comic & Entertainment Expo today:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ComicsXF/...84032347869189





    Thanks for this. So this time higher ups f’ed up plans for movie Jean because of unrelated properties. That’s ironically another instance of creators having plans for her that get derailed by editorial and in this case Disney.

    Father Claremont also hates the abomination that is Jean’s 90s costume. So agree!!! That and the xmen red costume that it inspired are the bottom of the barrel for Jean looks. Thank goodness she has her other popular looks like phoenix, but I hate how prevalent that 90s monstrosity is.

  8. #5543

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Thanks for this. So this time higher ups f’ed up plans for movie Jean because of unrelated properties. That’s ironically another instance of creators having plans for her that get derailed by editorial and in this case Disney.

    Father Claremont also hates the abomination that is Jean’s 90s costume. So agree!!! That and the xmen red costume that it inspired are the bottom of the barrel for Jean looks. Thank goodness she has her other popular looks like phoenix, but I hate how prevalent that 90s monstrosity is.
    I liked the 90's costume but now i will never draw jean with shoulder pads again. lmaoo!
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
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  9. #5544

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Louise did say Jean was his “total favorite.” I loved how he reiterated that Jean and Phoenix are one in Uncanny X-Men #140.5. He really will not accept any other take, lol.
    i honestly can't answer this without going mmmhmm because reading your post my mind then thinks well wouldn't it have been amazing if in the exodus issue where he met phoenix he actually saw jean turn and smile or saying something which would make sense connecting to the "our resident religious fanatic's." it truly feels to me like if he is trying to make her big and give her her shine and show who she is there are so many moments already where it would make sense for it to had happened and it's not about feats it's about progression and what only she brings to mutants in a freakin war.

    Especially since Gillien wrote A vs X and i believe in some of the scans you posted it showed her showing up to scott telling him iit was time to let go. Now that i think about the last time gillien wrote xmen was a vs x and now it's axe. hmmmmm
    Last edited by jwatson; 08-05-2022 at 07:29 PM.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
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  10. #5545
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    i honestly can't answer this without going mmmhmm because reading your post my mind then thinks well wouldn't it have been amazing if in the exodus issue where he met phoenix he actually saw jean turn and smile or saying something which would make sense connecting to the "our resident religious finatic." it truly feels to me like if he is trying to make her big and give her her shine and show who she is there are so many moments already where it would make sense for it to had happened and it's not about feats it's about progression and what only she brings to mutants in a freakin war.

    Especially since Gillien wrote A vs X and i believe in some of the scans you posted it showed her showing up to scott telling her it was time to let go. Now that i think about the last time gillien wrote xmen was a vs x and now it's axe. hmmmmm
    J, let me preface what I'm going to say by clarifying that I completely understand where you're coming from regarding your frustration with how Gillen has handled Jean and Ororo in this event thus far. Ideally, both of them would have been given more substantial scenes in Judgment Day #1, with Jean shown actually fighting the "Attack Flight outfitted with war armor" that invaded Krakoa, and Ororo shown reacting to the news of Uranos' invasion of Arrako. However, I choose not to consider the fact that this didn't happen as a bad omen and abstain from criticizing Gillen's choices in favor of my preferences because we're literally one issue into this event—three when counting X-Men Red #5 and Immortal X-Men #5 as tie-ins. Ultimately, it's simply too soon to cast aspersions at Gillen when we've read roughly less than ten percent of this event, including tie-ins.

    As for how I would've handled the brief scene centered on Jean and Exodus that was previewed, frankly, as soon as Exodus started justifying his reason for engaging the Hex in a "challenge," I would have had Jean TK-O the f#cker before he could finish his thought, and had her finish with, "You were saying?" However, that's me, an admittedly biased fan wanting my favorite character to shine. I make it a point of keeping that side of me in check because it usually rides on the presumption that I know what's best or that I can foresee what's coming. To be clear, I don't know and can't foresee $#!+. (Remember, to assume is to make an "ass out of u and me.") In addition, adopting that kind of attitude takes me out of the story and makes what should be light, enjoyable fun a drag. I don't want to do that to myself or others. I'd much rather have faith in a writer that has proven himself—to me, at least—to be both competent and brilliant and simply enjoy the ride.

    I trust that Gillen's comments on and descriptions of Jean—i.e., that she is "really interesting," "iconic," "incredibly powerful," and "known even to people who don't read comics"—are indicative of how he will handle her throughout the course of this event. That being said, is it possible that this whole thing will turn out to be a huge disappointment for me as a Jean fan? Of course it's possible, but I'd rather trust him, be optimistic and, as I said above, enjoy the ride. And I say that knowing that there will probably be a dozen or so plot beats that I will end up thinking I would have done differently and could have done better, as pretentious as that is of me to say. Ultimately, however, whether this event turns out to be the most brilliant thing to happen to the franchise since Hickman's HoX/PoX or the worst thing since the decimation, the Earth will continue to spin, new stories and character developments will continue to be written, and all will be well. Overall, the franchise, Jean, and Ororo are each in a good place, and while improvements can be made on all fronts, I'm choosing to enjoy the moment.

  11. #5546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Louise did say Jean was his “total favorite.” I loved how he reiterated that Jean and Phoenix are one in Uncanny X-Men #140.5. He really will not accept any other take, lol.
    He shouldn't accept any other take. We don't bow to sexists, even when they have the upper hand. He's right about the Jim Lee costume being trash too.

  12. #5547
    Mighty Member Exodus's Avatar
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    I agree with literally everything Claremont has said here. Amen!

    I always suspected that Binary was actually Phoenix's replacement and that Claremont transferred his ideas from one character to another. In particular her role in the Brood Saga feels like reading Jean Grey has returned already as the Phoenix.

    It is kinda ironic that even so many years later, it was Marvel's Captain Marvel movie that ruined Kinberg's Dark Phoenix movie because of decisions made in the comicbook industry in the 1980s...

    binary1.jpg
    Last edited by Exodus; 08-06-2022 at 12:01 AM.

  13. #5548
    You look like trouble. Tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    I agree with literally everything Claremont has said here. Amen!

    I always suspected that Binary was actually Phoenix's replacement and that Claremont transferred his ideas from one character to another. In particular her role in the Brood Saga feels like reading Jean Grey has returned already as the Phoenix.

    It is kinda ironic that even so many years later, it was Marvel's Captain Marvel movie that ruined Kinberg's Dark Phoenix movie because of decisions made in the comicbook industry 1980s...

    binary1.jpg
    I kinda blame Claremont for the start of everyone and their mom getting the phoenix. He used Binary as a stand in, created Rachel/Maddie/ etc. Man just couldnt leave enough alone until it was truly time to bring Jean back the right way. So we got the horrid retcon, and now the phoenix was out of the bottle and everyone and their mom could use it.

  14. #5549
    Mighty Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I kinda blame Claremont for the start of everyone and their mom getting the phoenix. He used Binary as a stand in, created Rachel/Maddie/ etc. Man just couldnt leave enough alone until it was truly time to bring Jean back the right way. So we got the horrid retcon, and now the phoenix was out of the bottle and everyone and their mom could use it.
    I think in a world of genetic mutations it is absolutely ok and justifiable that a daughter and a clone will develop similar Phoenix powers like Jean Grey. I'm absolutely ok with Rachel being Phoenix and I like Madelyne's storyline of a failed clone experiment that became sentient because of the Phoenix Force.

    But I agree, it was Claremont himself who also has created the magical energy vampire Necrom, the magician Feron and the Anti-Phoenix in his Excalibur run. For me, this is the starting point where the Phoenix Force became a "disease" or "cosmic parasite" that can be attached to literally everybody. You do not even have to be a powerful omega psy anymore to transform into Phoenix. Even a person with weak physical powers like Echo can manifest the Phoenix Force now.
    Last edited by Exodus; 08-06-2022 at 12:07 AM.

  15. #5550
    Astonishing Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    I saw Claremont trending on twitter earlier and there were a lot of discussion about some of his other comments while on that panel.

    But back to the Judgement Day 2 preview I think it looked good and I can't wait to see how the story progress. Other than that I'm excited for the next issue of Duggan's X-men. We know Jean will get to do stuff there. Like Mercury and others said we may have to be patient with Judgement Day. It has only just started and we know there will be more Jean content going forward.

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