Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Exodus]

I just read Excalibur #61 for the first time. It is about Rachel Grey recovering and healing in space cocooned in Phoenix energy when she meets and spectacularly fights Galactus.

Honestly, I take it back that Jean should have the Phoenix Force. As gorgeous, mystical, and frightening a Phoenix host can be (if done well...I miss you Grant Morrison!), this comic states that the Phoenix takes and steals its energy from "life yet unborn".

Here the dialogue for everybody who does not know what the Phoenix Force bound to a host really does and that Galactus and the Phoenix are not that different:

Phoenix: In mindless passion I destroyed a sun and a world it warmed. I acknowledge my sin and bow low beneath its burden.
Galactus: I do not speak from a single sun, but of that from what you steal your powers.
Phoenix: I have no need to steal-I am the emodiment of life.
Galactus: You are indeed unique. Born of the void between states of being. But you are an expression of the universal life force. Not a well-spring. The universe is finite. In the moment of creation, all that will ever be, was. In birth and death there is transition...and in lifting, advancement but nothing new is created. Life must feed on life, you are not no different.
Phoenix: I am sustained by the warmth of life's fiery cycle.
Galactus: In you natural state perhaps, but it is not sufficient to maintain your activities on this plane. [...]
...you are neither weiry nor hungry, because you tap into a source of near limitless potential. The sea of life yet unborn."

Maybe the goal is NOT to have a Phoenix host at all...I'm not sure how to interpret Galactus words "activities on this place" but I understand it as the Phoenix Force bound to a human host starts the process of stealing "life yet unborn". I think Wanda and Hope where up to something when they tried to disperse the Force and Hope rejecting it.

The early narration of the book also gives a vague explanation why the Phoenix Force seeks a host: "A celestial consciousness as old as creation-Forsook godhood in search for purpose. A reason for being."

677742-rachel_vs._galactus_006.jpg

Maybe we need a storyline where Rachel and Jean once and for all return the Phoenix Force to its natural state and forces the Force to become a transcendental being without a host again.

[Daedra]

I just read Excalibur #61 for the first time. It is about Rachel Grey recovering and healing in space wrapped in Phoenix energy when she meets and spectacularly fights Galactus. Honestly, I take it back that Jean should have the Phoenix Force. As gorgeous, mystical, and frightening a Phoenix host can be, this comic states that the Phoenix takes and steals its energy from "life yet unborn".

Here the dialogue for everybody who do not know what the Phoenix Force bound to a host really does:

Phoenix: In mindless passion I destroyed a sun and a world it warmed. I acknowledge my sin and bow low beneath its burden.
Galactus: I do not speak from a single sun, but of that from what you steal your powers.
Phoenix: I have no need to steal-I am the emodiment of life.
Galactus: You are indeed unique. Born of the void between states of being. But you are an expression of the universal life force. Not a well-spring. The universe is finite. In the moment of creation, all that will ever be, was. In birth and death there is transition...and in lifting, advancement but nothing new is created. Life must feed on life, you are not no different.
Phoenix: I am sustained by the warmth of life's fiery cycle.
Galactus: In you natural state perhaps, but it is not sufficient to maintain your activities on this plane. [...]
...you are neither weiry nor hungry, because you tap into a source of near limitless potential. The sea of life yet unborn."

Maybe the goal is NOT to have a Phoenix host at all...I'm not sure how to interpret Galactus words "activities on this place" but I understand it as the Phoenix Force bound to a human host starts the process of stealing "life yet unborn". I think Wanda and Hope where up to something when they tried to disperse the Force and Hope rejecting it.

The early narration of the book also gives a vague explanation why the Phoenix Force seeks a host: "A celestial consciousness as old as creation-Forsook godhood in search for purpose. A reason for being."

Aaaah yes ……..I remember…….. Galactus bitter speech, moments after his defeat at the hand of a phoenix animated Rachel…….he ,who devours entire generations in a single meal, went on a pro life life tirade against the force accusing it of promoting abortion all over the universe, so the phoenix being merely pro choice realized she had to limit her influence on his host and the material plane.

[Exodus]

hihi. this is how you interpret it. Fair enough. Now I feel like I just have endorsed anti-abortion laws in this thread.

I saw it more like: "Don't be such a self-righteous little space force. you and me we are not that different. We eat to survive."

[BobbysWorld]

hihi. this is how you interpret it. Fair enough. Now I feel like I just have endorsed anti-abortion laws in this thread.

I saw it more like: "Don't be such a self-righteous little space force. you and me we are not that different. We eat to survive."

True, but its worth noting here that in this particular case, BOTH the Phoenix and Galactus are the essence of unreliable narrators - they both are more inclined to justify their existence at the expense of the other. It makes sense for the Phoenix to spin things as being more benevolent or neutral in nature than Galactus. It equally makes sense for Galactus to view things through a lens that posits he's no different or worse than something like the Phoenix.

Both have a different view of how the Phoenix survives/manifests and whether there's a cost to sustain it, but both have reasons to be biased about what view they adopt there. So I don't think either of their word can be definitively trusted here, as to which view is more accurate.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Exodus, you didn't know the Phoenix is future-baby energy? Welcome to the Dark side, friend! Lol

Look at it like this, if there is no Phoenix, then characters like BlackPantherStormKid and RedDiamondEmmaGirl or ProfessorXaviersIdenticalKid might actually be born.

We best play it on the safe side, yeah?

More Phoenix!

[Exodus]

Exodus, you didn't know the Phoenix is future-baby energy? Welcome to the Dark side, friend! Lol

Look at it like this, if there is no Phoenix, then characters like BlackPantherStormKid and RedDiamondEmmaGirl or ProfessorXaviersIdenticalKid might actually be born.

We best play it on the safe side, yeah?

More Phoenix!

Soooo, Jean Grey is not only a Marxist Queen, she is also a No-"Reproductive Futurism"-Icon?!?!?!?!??! omfg. My love for her was never stronger! ;-)

[Omega_DCD]

I just read Excalibur #61 for the first time. It is about Rachel Grey recovering and healing in space cocooned in Phoenix energy when she meets and spectacularly fights Galactus.

Honestly, I take it back that Jean should have the Phoenix Force. As gorgeous, mystical, and frightening a Phoenix host can be (if done well...I miss you Grant Morrison!), this comic states that the Phoenix takes and steals its energy from "life yet unborn".

Here the dialogue for everybody who does not know what the Phoenix Force bound to a host really does and that Galactus and the Phoenix are not that different:

Phoenix: In mindless passion I destroyed a sun and a world it warmed. I acknowledge my sin and bow low beneath its burden.
Galactus: I do not speak from a single sun, but of that from what you steal your powers.
Phoenix: I have no need to steal-I am the emodiment of life.
Galactus: You are indeed unique. Born of the void between states of being. But you are an expression of the universal life force. Not a well-spring. The universe is finite. In the moment of creation, all that will ever be, was. In birth and death there is transition...and in lifting, advancement but nothing new is created. Life must feed on life, you are not no different.
Phoenix: I am sustained by the warmth of life's fiery cycle.
Galactus: In you natural state perhaps, but it is not sufficient to maintain your activities on this plane. [...]
...you are neither weiry nor hungry, because you tap into a source of near limitless potential. The sea of life yet unborn."

Maybe the goal is NOT to have a Phoenix host at all...I'm not sure how to interpret Galactus words "activities on this place" but I understand it as the Phoenix Force bound to a human host starts the process of stealing "life yet unborn". I think Wanda and Hope where up to something when they tried to disperse the Force and Hope rejecting it.

The early narration of the book also gives a vague explanation why the Phoenix Force seeks a host: "A celestial consciousness as old as creation-Forsook godhood in search for purpose. A reason for being."

677742-rachel_vs._galactus_006.jpg

Maybe we need a storyline where Rachel and Jean once and for all return the Phoenix Force to its natural state and forces the Force to become a transcendental being without a host again.

This is further expanded on in Excalibur #63(conversation
with Death) and #64 (conversation with Rachel) ...it's not about having a host, rather the problem was with the Phoenix maintaining the sentience it acquired(from Jean). After it sheds its sentience and returns to its natural state, Rachel has reduced access to the Phoenix Force.

Of course stories like Endsong and AvX completely mess things up by having the Phoenix have its own sentience again(through at least Endsong does treat it as an anomaly, and due to the Shi'ar mucking things up)

[jwatson]

Exodus, you didn't know the Phoenix is future-baby energy? Welcome to the Dark side, friend! Lol

Look at it like this, if there is no Phoenix, then characters like BlackPantherStormKid and RedDiamondEmmaGirl or ProfessorXaviersIdenticalKid might actually be born.

We best play it on the safe side, yeah?

More Phoenix!

*shivers* This makes me want Phoenix to, in the words of Rhianna : "Shine bright like a diamond"

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Soooo, Jean Grey is not only a Marxist Queen, she is also a No-"Reproductive Futurism"-Icon?!?!?!?!??! omfg. My love for her was never stronger! ;-)

Our RadLib Goddess, love her so much

*shivers* This makes me want Phoenix to, in the words of Rhianna : "Shine bright like a diamond"

Just know that I want to make a B*tch Better Have My Money reference but can't really think of one right now.

[Exodus]

This is further expanded on in Excalibur #63(conversation
with Death) and #64 (conversation with Rachel) ...it's not about having a host, rather the problem was with the Phoenix maintaining the sentience it acquired(from Jean). After it sheds its sentience and returns to its natural state, Rachel has reduced access to the Phoenix Force.

Of course stories like Endsong and AvX completely mess things up by having the Phoenix have its own sentience again(through at least Endsong does treat it as an anomaly, and due to the Shi'ar mucking things up)

thank you for clearing this up. I just continued reading Excalibur and also found those scenes. Makes me jealous why Jean was not the host in this storyline. lol

[Exodus]

Our RadLib Goddess, love her so much

hihi, I had to google that.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

hihi, I had to google that.

Lol googling it myself, I probably should have used "leftist." RadLib is typically used more sarcastically for people who think they are radical when they are hardly left.

[Celestialbodies]

Okay, if you have a problem with it what can to do about it? If someone is of the opinion Xavier is the strongest telepath, it’s not like you can put them mail. Different writers will always saying different things about different characters power levels. I’m not suggesting you agree with this, but I also don’t see the point in falling apart over this.

A character you consider to be the most powerful telepath, but someone else considers another person to be the most powerful telepath.

I mean I can’t tell you what to like or not like. You can hate it. But there’s just no point to scream every time Jean’s status or power ranking is threatened in your mind either, particularly when the Jade not the scene was about her

Nothing at all...but here I thought this was a forum for "discussion".

I'm honestly over you and multiple other commenters in this thread projecting your own thoughts and feelings onto my comments. I don't need you or anyone else to interpret what I'm stating, I'm very clear and concise in my statements.

The point I was making if it weren't clear enough, if Lorna or some weather manipulator appeared in this very issue and were called the most powerful metal manipulator or weather manipulator in the universe, while Omega Level Magneto or Storm appeared in the same issue in a passive role, yes their fans would be questioning the validity of that statement.


I often wonder why some of you are even fans of Jean. As long as she's superficially involved in stories your happy, even when those stories add nothing of depth to her character and she's consistently having something taken from her. What's worse is, I'm thoroughly read on Jean, I don't require any assistance on understanding her capabilities, or placement within the X-men telepathic hierarchy. Your last comment reveals the entire problem with her character and use in this issue, why is she constantly put in situations that aren't even about her or her development?


Ask yourselves this, take Jean completely out of this issue...what changes? Now ask yourself the same question about Storm, Magneto, or Xavier.

[Omega_DCD]

Nothing at all...but here I thought this was a forum for "discussion".

I'm honestly over you and multiple other commenters in this thread projecting your own thoughts and feelings onto my comments. I don't need you or anyone else to interpret what I'm stating, I'm very clear and concise in my statements.

The point I was making if it weren't clear enough, if Lorna or some weather manipulator appeared in this very issue and were called the most powerful metal manipulator or weather manipulator in the universe, while Omega Level Magneto or Storm appeared in the same issue in a passive role, yes their fans would be questioning the validity of that statement.


I often wonder why some of you are even fans of Jean. As long as she's superficially involved in stories your happy, even when those stories add nothing of depth to her character and she's consistently having something taken from her. What's worse is, I'm thoroughly read on Jean, I don't require any assistance on understanding her capabilities, or placement within the X-men telepathic hierarchy. Your last comment reveals the entire problem with her character and use in this issue, why is she constantly put in situations that aren't even about her or her development?


Ask yourselves this, take Jean completely out of this issue...what changes? Now ask yourself the same question about Storm, Magneto, or Xavier.

Agree with this post 100%...it's the unnecessary undermining for me.

[Tank]

Nothing at all...but here I thought this was a forum for "discussion".

I'm honestly over you and multiple other commenters in this thread projecting your own thoughts and feelings onto my comments. I don't need you or anyone else to interpret what I'm stating, I'm very clear and concise in my statements.

The point I was making if it weren't clear enough, if Lorna or some weather manipulator appeared in this very issue and were called the most powerful metal manipulator or weather manipulator in the universe, while Omega Level Magneto or Storm appeared in the same issue in a passive role, yes their fans would be questioning the validity of that statement.


I often wonder why some of you are even fans of Jean. As long as she's superficially involved in stories your happy, even when those stories add nothing of depth to her character and she's consistently having something taken from her. What's worse is, I'm thoroughly read on Jean, I don't require any assistance on understanding her capabilities, or placement within the X-men telepathic hierarchy. Your last comment reveals the entire problem with her character and use in this issue, why is she constantly put in situations that aren't even about her or her development?


Ask yourselves this, take Jean completely out of this issue...what changes? Now ask yourself the same question about Storm, Magneto, or Xavier.

You tell em Celestialbodies!!

Agreed with all, but just too exhausted to argue with people and defend my own thoughts online. Lol