Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Grinning Soul]

Red hair exists, but you normally see them in children because redheads tend to become more and more blond as they age.

I had two redhead classmates, both boys with very pale skins and freckles. By the time we graduated high school, the hair of one of them had become coppery/strawberry blond. The other one was still very red. Beautifully, impossibly red. It's really rare, though, even amongst redheads.

[Wiccan]

There is some slight hope for her in the cartoon, as one of the showrunners seems to be a big fan, but on the other hand, they are basing it on the old cartoon for whatever lame reason, so still some skepticism to be had there. As far as the movies, I hope Feige sees the X-Women as the natural "rah rah, Girl Power" archetypes that they aim for Danvers to be, and I hope he sees Jean as included in that. She doesn't always get to be her own full separate woman, as we know.

I think, when looking at MCU characters to compare, Jean is kind of seen more like a Wanda than a Carol. Wanda is also very powerful and got her own show, but her story is still more focused around stereotypically feminine things: Romance, children, power tied to emotions, no snarky "traditional MCU protagonist" personality.

[Phoenixx9]

Red hair exists, but you normally see them in children because redheads tend to become more and more blond as they age.

I had two redhead classmates, both boys with very pale skins and freckles. By the time we graduated high school, the hair of one of them had become coppery/strawberry blond. The other one was still very red. Beautifully, impossibly red. It's really rare, though, even amongst redheads.

He may be related to Jean.

[Gnostic]

I think, when looking at MCU characters to compare, Jean is kind of seen more like a Wanda than a Carol. Wanda is also very powerful and got her own show, but her story is still more focused around stereotypically feminine things: Romance, children, power tied to emotions, no snarky "traditional MCU protagonist" personality.

Well, WandaVision was based on Darker Than Scarlet. That was literally John Byrne trying to make an Avenger version of the Dark Phoenix Saga.

[Marvelboy1974]

Jean Grey is a mutant. I want her hair to be intense mutant red not ginger orange and her eyes to be a piercing emerald green. Her vibrant hair and flawless skin should be part of her mutation IMO

[Lukmendes]

She would most definitely have to Hmhave limits to her abilities. You've suggested some good ones, such as range, proximity, and the number of mutants she can affect at once. Perhaps shutting off someone’s ability could drain her considerably, which is the tried and tested easy way out, lol.

Yeah shutting down powers tiring her out is a given, just think it could have other rules besides those so we can have a "Less is more" situation.

Jean's family knowing about her abilities definitely changed. In the original run of X-Men, Jean is anxious about her parents visiting and makes it clear that they don't know she's a mutant. However, later, they would be depicted knowing from the beginning. In X-Men Origins: Jean Grey, Xavier even tells them about implanting psychic blocks in Jean's mind to control her telepathy. In the end, her family forgetting about her abilities could easily be caused and explained away by Xavier mindwiping them.

Xavier asking her parent's permission to supress her power, and then making them forget that she's a mutant is... Very in-line with how that asshole acted in silver age lol.

I do have a feeling that Marvel Studios will reboot the X-Men series into the Exiles series with Multiverse of Madness based on the leaks I've seen.

That would make sense.

I think a hard reboot is going to come much later. As Kevin Feige said that this phase is about new beginnings and they're building towards a new saga. They had their chance to allude to mutants with Eternals but didn't take it. But there has been a ton of hints at Exiles.

I wonder how much of a reboot it'd be, on the Spidey side, Feige has said that they didn't pick other actors to play Green Goblin and Otto because they didn't think anyone else could do better, and characters like Xavier, Wolverine and Magneto would likely get the same treatment, so we might get more or less the same old lol.

Well, WandaVision was based on Darker Than Scarlet. That was literally John Byrne trying to make an Avenger version of the Dark Phoenix Saga.

I think Byrne was too in love with Dark Phoenix, he also came up with Dark Angel for Donna at DC, which I hear is another-nother story based on Dark Phoenix.

Surprised he never did Dark She-Hulk thinking of it .

Anyways, I finished the issues of the current X-Men run, and, I'm not sure what's up with all the complaints about her under Duggan, she and Polaris have more noticeable screen time and personality than the rest, not to mention using their powers well enough, while I can't say how accurate their personalities are (Still basically a noob about X-Men here), they're at least being treated with respect.

[Grinning Soul]

He may be related to Jean. :p

He had freckles, though. Not too many, but impossible to miss. :)

I think what's even rarer about Jean is the lack of freckles, which is how she's normally drawn.

[Phoenixx9]

He had freckles, though. Not too many, but impossible to miss.

I think what's even rarer about Jean is the lack of freckles, which is how she's normally drawn.

No freckles, deep red hair and sparkling green eyes all very unique to Jean and her mutation, as well as her skin tone not being porcelain, but a little darker which prevents sunburn better.

[Grinning Soul]

No freckles, deep red hair and sparkling green eyes all very unique to Jean and her mutation, as well as her skin tone not being porcelain, but a little darker which prevents sunburn better. :)

I love freckles in real life but I very rarely see them drawn/coloured well, so I actually prefer when they don't draw Jean with them (which is most of the times) and I have accepted that it's possible that she just doesn't have them. I'd love if her skin was really pale in the comics, but I understand it's much easier not to try. I love really dark and really pale skins, but they're quite difficult to represent well and comic book colorists usually work with tight deadlines.

The idea that Jean sunburns easily when the bird is not around is just too Jeannie for me not to love it! And I absolutely love those amusing little ironies in general! :P

But I get that other fans will have their own preferences and I'm cool with that. :)

[Mercury]

I like this part...

"The relationship between Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force was finally explained during the Grant Morrison era. He adapted the theological idea of 'apotheosis,' of a human transcending their humanity and uniting with a pre-existent Divine being. The teaching was incorporated into the so-called 'New Age' movement in the 1960s, the kind of mysticism Grant Morrison has always been fascinated by. He allowed it to inform his 'New X-Men' run, and it was a perfect thematic fit for Jean's arc."

In Morrison's vision, Grey was no longer a human the Phoenix discarded and copied. Instead, she was a mutant so powerful she was connected to a universal force that embodied life and death.

Read More: https://www.looper.com/727410/grant-..._campaign=clip

I like Morrison's weaving of theological apotheosis through Jean's relationship with the Phoenix Force. For me, it's helped make sense of the retcon. I've been carrying on a discussion with Connor Goldsmith (creator and host of CerebroCast) on Twitter for the last 24+ hours regarding Jean's relationship with the Phoenix Force, and I noted:

Personally, I no longer believe that the retcon detracts from Jean’s overall story or her special relationship with the Phoenix Force, which, as a result of the retcon, I've come to see in progressive stages. She was physically and mentally too weak to immediately recover from the impact of [the emergence of her full potential] and the trauma she endured on the shuttle. However, as she grew and was able to handle and wield her infinite potential as a psi, so did her Phoenix manifestations until she reached apotheosis.

Ugh, I've accidentally become way too invested in the idea of Sara and her kids being brought back via resurrection. I will have to weep all the tears of 'literally how dare they' if Marvel now doesn't at some point give us the House of Grey dynamic brainstormed in this thread.

It was no accident, and there is no such thing as being "too invested in the idea of Sara and her kids being brought back." They absolutely should be. Separate and apart from Jean, they carry the potential to be fascinating characters in their own right.

Well, WandaVision was based on Darker Than Scarlet. That was literally John Byrne trying to make an Avenger version of the Dark Phoenix Saga.

Bingo.

Jean Grey is a mutant. I want her hair to be intense mutant red not ginger orange and her eyes to be a piercing emerald green. Her vibrant hair and flawless skin should be part of her mutation IMO

I've seen this idea floated around Twitter for some time.

Xavier asking her parent's permission to supress her power, and then making them forget that she's a mutant is... Very in-line with how that asshole acted in silver age lol.

Exactly.

I think Byrne was too in love with Dark Phoenix, he also came up with Dark Angel for Donna at DC, which I hear is another-nother story based on Dark Phoenix. Surprised he never did Dark She-Hulk thinking of it .

The Dark Phoenix Saga is the blueprint for so many stories, it's mind-boggling to think about.

Anyways, I finished the issues of the current X-Men run, and, I'm not sure what's up with all the complaints about her under Duggan, she and Polaris have more noticeable screen time and personality than the rest, not to mention using their powers well enough, while I can't say how accurate their personalities are (Still basically a noob about X-Men here), they're at least being treated with respect.

Jean fans, myself included, have high and differing opinions and expectations. It's very difficult to make us all happy at once! lmao.

[Lukmendes]

The idea that Jean sunburns easily when the bird is not around is just too Jeannie for me not to love it! And I absolutely love those amusing little ironies in general! :P

Maybe Jean will stop using the MG costume 'cause it makes her get sunburnned easier .

The Dark Phoenix Saga is the blueprint for so many stories, it's mind-boggling to think about.

Sure, but I think it's Byrne just trying to reinvent the wheel, only without doing anything to actually make it stand out.

Jean fans, myself included, have high and differing opinions and expectations. It's very difficult to make us all happy at once! lmao.

Pleasing everyone is just not possible, but at times it can feel like fans would only be happy if a character is written like Starlin writers Thanos, basically, everyone else worships that one character lol.

[Mercury]

Sure, but I think it's Byrne just trying to reinvent the wheel, only without doing anything to actually make it stand out.

He's certainly not the only one who's tried this with DPS.

Pleasing everyone is just not possible, but at times it can feel like fans would only be happy if a character is written like Starlin writers Thanos, basically, everyone else worships that one character lol.

True. Sometimes the fan expectations bother me, especially when they're used to slight Jean as a character, but, overall, I find them endearing. It reminds me of how much people love her as a character.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yep. Not to mention it must be really hard not to let it get to your head. 'Cause at that point, you're a god.

Yes the human just can´t handle that kind of power, it´s been a theme since the first secret wars.

Really???

Yep

You're the first person I've ever met that doesn't hate the Midi-Chlorians BS! Seriously.

It just doesn´t bother me, I think it made sense for SW, yes the force is supposed to be mystical in nature but this doesn´t mean it can´t be quantifiable in the beings that have acess to it and this makes sense in a world that´s supposed to be a fairly tale but buillt over highly tenological science. Of course if you tell me the MC were not neccesary I would agree with you completely but they are ok

That's why I love you, Lucy! I get to use my sarcastic, dark humour, sprinkled with bad puns and an unhealthy dose of reality and not only you get it, you participate in it!

Thank GS I love you too, seriously dark humor is kind of one of my favourite forms of humor.

[Mercury]

Thank GS I love you too, seriously dark humor is kind of one of my favourite forms of humor.

You two are too cute! lol. Keep the convos coming!

[Grinning Soul]

Maybe Jean will stop using the MG costume 'cause it makes her get sunburnned easier :p.

You know what? I actually don't mind the costume when it's drawn well. The problem is that's usually not the case. The only thing that really annoys about it is that it looks dated next to the costumes of the other heroes around her.

But if you asked me if I want it gone, my answer is "yes". But it's not because of the uniform itself: it's because then we wouldn't talk about it anymore! :D