Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Grinning Soul]

Also, before I dart off, I found these, Grinning Soul. They made me think of our brief discussion some days/weeks ago:

I think Jeannie is ENFJ. I think she loves people too much. If she's not an Fe-dom, I don't know who is. :)

INFJ isn't a bad fit for her either, but ENFJs are part of the "in charge" group, which makes more sense to me for her than the "chart the course" group.

[WallStreeter]

Nice to see Jean wearing a tweaked version of her Gala outfit.

Nice outfit. Her updated Gala look pays homage to her previous costumes.

[Phoenixx9]

Nice outfit. Her updated Gala look pays homage to her previous costumes.

Indeed. I like that it also has a modern vibe to it.

[davetvs]

Yes, let's have some of that lol.

Emma and Jean being BFFs does not ring authentically at all does it? Gotcha.

Also, them hanging out with Sinister and Co. of course makes even less sense, but I don't think people ever argue that it does.

I said they were friendly, not BFFs. Which yes, is authentic because relationships grow and evolve over time even if they started out antagonistically. Go outside, you'll see. Canonically, Jean's best friend is Storm, and I guess we can say Emma's is Christian.

[Mercury]

Took a break from work and quickly added these subtle modifications... Somebody stop me.





Okay. Back to work!

[Rev9]

I always viewed Emma as a person who doesn't have any friends. She can be in friendly terms with people or find a way to be so if its necessary, but they won't be close in the same way as a tradional friendship is. I do think Emma has very complicated relationships with women.

In terms of how Jean feels about her and how they act with each other now, I take two things into consideration: One, when Jean was at literal God power levels she saw how much Emma loved Scott and push them together so she could make him happy. I think she has a connection through their shared love for him. Two, Teen Jean's memories, that put her in a position where Emma took her under her wing and trained her, creating a psychic bond that probably goes beyond their differences.

So nothing in this era has contradicted their history for me, personally. I mean, the closest indication we may have got to them hanging out was that exchange in Hickman's X-Men where they planned to have drinks, but they were in the QC together at the time so you could argue they were doing it as coworkers.

Problem is Scott was not in love or had any romantic affection towards Emma at that point , basically Jean willed the love of her life to 'live' with someone he would under no normal circumstances be in love with. She screwed him over imo.

[davetvs]

Problem is Scott was not in love or had any romantic affection towards Emma at that point , basically Jean willed the love of her life to 'live' with someone he would under no normal circumstances be in love with. She screwed him over imo.

Says who? He was telepathically banging Emma before Jean ever willed them to do anything, and stayed with her from the end of Morrison's run all the way through the beginning of Bendis'.

[Rev9]

Says who? He was telepathically banging Emma before Jean ever willed them to do anything, and stayed with her from the end of Morrison's run all the way through the beginning of Bendis'.

On whose initiative?,He is not the telepath to initiate that kind of mindscape, guy was manipulated, I'm not saying he didn't give in and is completely absolved but it was clear Emma was going into inappropriate scenarios against his wish. Staying with her was in all likelihood because of Jean's wish manifesting.

[Lukmendes]

For what it's worth, the lot of you acting like it's impossible for someone to go from an enemy to a friend betrays your own lack of life experience. Anecdotally, while Jean is my favorite character, Emma and Monet's personalities are closer to my own. I'm a bitch, and a snob, but I have more friends than I know what to do with even if I don't consider myself especially pleasant...people gravitate towards authenticity and honesty even if it's not sugarcoated. Sometimes, especially if it's not.

I mean, by real life's standards it can be harder for someone like Jean who was tormented by Emma that much to become friends, it can happen, but if Jean decided to hold a grudge over **** like Dark Phoenix, she hardly could be blamed for that too.

Nasty past between people can ruin relationships, even they could be friends otherwise, families have been ruined for silly **** and all, but if we ignore that and just see their personalities, then I guess they could be friends or whatever.

But comparing comic books with real life is silly, comic characters are far more forgiving about terrorists, rapists, genociders and whatever, as long as they say sorry hard enough, so yeah, youtuber's apologies must work everytime in super hero worlds .

Yeah. I feel the same about a bunch of friendships. I don't think just because they exist, I'm obliged to like those or future ones that might make me feel the same. Two wrongs don't make a right, after all.

But again: that's personal. I understand other people feel differently.

Well if a character I like is friends with a character I don't like, I won't really mind it if it makes sense for both of them to be friends, and while I'm not a fan of Wolverine, I'd be okay with him being friends with Spidey if Spidey wasn't so against killing in general, him having a problem if anyone else does it, but it being okay if it's Wolverine, eh...

If I forgive someone, I honestly don't hold a grudge against them. But depending on what they did and even more importantly *why* they did it and how they choose to behave afterwards, I won't turn my back to them. I give my trust freely until someone shows me I can't trust them. And then they have to earn it back and I'll admit it's not an easy task.

Some people don't see that as true forgiveness and I truly accept their view. I don't know if they see it that way because they can truly put the past behind them as if it hadn't happened or because they can't be as detached as I am and they actually forgive people less often than I do. But it doesn't matter. I understand that people are just different.

I mean by what you described of yourself, it just seems that you're careful enough when forgiving, 'cause as much as people like to be cute and say "only the strong forgive", forgiving too much makes you into an enabler of shitty behaviors, and that's bad for everyone.

In my case, I'm pretty tolerant of **** ups and annoying behavior, but I don't forgive if someone does something really bad to me, though if it reaches that point, then it means the other person is actively trying to **** me up, and I'm having none of that nonsense, and regretting **** afterwards won't change anything.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I said they were friendly, not BFFs. Which yes, is authentic because relationships grow and evolve over time even if they started out antagonistically. Go outside, you'll see. Canonically, Jean's best friend is Storm, and I guess we can say Emma's is Christian.

Yes, given these people are fictional characters, their whims are malleable. As to whether them being friends seems genuine when applying character histories and traits to personify these imaginary figures, it doesn't, does it?

aUtHeNtIcItY

On whose initiative?,He is not the telepath to initiate that kind of mindscape, guy was manipulated, I'm not saying he didn't give in and is completely absolved but it was clear Emma was going into inappropriate scenarios against his wish. Staying with her was in all likelihood because of Jean's wish manifesting.

I think this take is gross, but today's stories - "oop, I'm back with Jean now and that's cool with everyone" - make sense when the previous stories before Jean came back are interpreted in this kind of light....Scemma was fake the whole time.

[Exodus]

Took a break from work and quickly added these subtle modifications... Somebody stop me.





Okay. Back to work!

The second one is perfection. Wow! So well done.

[Phoenixx9]

Took a break from work and quickly added these subtle modifications... Somebody stop me.





Okay. Back to work!

These look great Mercury! Could you put the Phoenix symbol on her headpiece?

[WallStreeter]

It just doesn't make any sense, imo. It would be one thing if there was on-panel movement to the BFF status quo, and still would probably not be honestly believable, but at least there would be effort. Now, like with basically everything related to Jean, they just pretend any history where they weren't total BFF4Eva never happened.

It's not like they would need to be fighting all the time, or interact at all really, but the characterization should make sense.

This is like Bishop and Hope having a loving best friends relationship. She could understand why he did what he did, or not, but them going out for ice cream sundaes would be corny nonsense.

I kinda get where you're coming from in that I understand you want all the characters to be friends as an aesthetic, but I don't agree that that makes sense for the characters.

Think about real life; not every person is every person's best friend.

It doesn’t make sense to you personally. While you have your preferences, I have mine. In real life people don’t get resurrected, have superpowers, or all the other stuff these characters go through. If we count Jeen, Emma was even Jean’s mentor as far as her powers go for awhile.

I like that history. I have no problems with Emma and Jean being friends or Emma’s new friendships with Kitty or Storm. If you’re unhappy about it, that has nothing to do with me.

[Grinning Soul]

Well if a character I like is friends with a character I don't like, I won't really mind it if it makes sense for both of them to be friends, and while I'm not a fan of Wolverine, I'd be okay with him being friends with Spidey if Spidey wasn't so against killing in general, him having a problem if anyone else does it, but it being okay if it's Wolverine, eh...

That's what I meant too. Though, to be honest, there aren't many characters I strongly dislike.

I mean by what you described of yourself, it just seems that you're careful enough when forgiving, 'cause as much as people like to be cute and say "only the strong forgive", forgiving too much makes you into an enabler of shitty behaviors, and that's bad for everyone.

In my case, I'm pretty tolerant of **** ups and annoying behavior, but I don't forgive if someone does something really bad to me, though if it reaches that point, then it means the other person is actively trying to **** me up, and I'm having none of that nonsense, and regretting **** afterwards won't change anything.

I'm much more interested in patterns of behaviour and intent than actual mistakes. But that's how I live my life. It's what makes sense to me.

Other people see and feel things differently and I don't think I can judge them because I can't even fully understand them, to tell you the truth. While perspectives sometimes can be really different - and it's truly fascinating to me - I try to accept them even if I can't really relate to their experience. That doesn't mean I like everyone that I meet in my life. I wish I did, but I most certainly don't.

And I'm sorry, Luk, I enjoy our exchanges, but I'm sick of this thread. I need a break. Please PM me if you want to keep talking about it.

[MechaJeanix]

I am loving the comments to Russell Dauterman's twitter post about his updated look for Jean. Right now there are 2971 likes on the post and a lot of retweets and quote tweets. There are a lot of happy fans on twitter that are excited to be rid of the MG dress. I really do like the updated look though it is a lot of green. I would like a little more gold/yellow, but that is just a minor criticism. It really is a blend of some of Jean's best looks from her 90s look to Phoenix. It is a regal look and one that is deserving for such a pivotal character.

It is nice to see Jean with a modern costume. I would not mind this to be her permanent look going forward, or at least for it to be one in a rotation of looks that she uses often.