Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Grinning Soul]

Frankly, I think she is just taken aback by reaching a new level of trust and platonic intimacy with Logan, with whom she has already experienced profound levels of trust and intimacy, spanning life, death, the end of time, and alternate universes. I also think she's taken aback by the fact that he is willing to allow her so deeply into his mind. She knows how private and defensive he generally is.

This is how I see those "lapses".

What probably happened: the writer disregarded her history (out of ignorance or not remembering it well) and made her say/react in a way that doesn't make much sense given she is suppose to remember having done or lived through some stuff.

How it goes in my mind: Jean sometimes has a child-like emotional reaction to things that are happening and it feels new to her even though it's not. That's why I said it's endearing, really. I wasn't being sarcastic. I find it funny and cute.

[davetvs]

Frankly, I think she is just taken aback by reaching a new level of trust and platonic intimacy with Logan, with whom she has already experienced profound levels of trust and intimacy, spanning life, death, the end of time, and alternate universes. I also think she's taken aback by the fact that he is willing to allow her so deeply into his mind. She knows how private and defensive he generally is.

How is it platonic when they're having sex in hot tubs? Lol

[Grinning Soul]

I think MechaJeanix is referring to Jean insisting that Kingpin be referred to as Mayor. Some people thought she was serious. However, I and quite a few other people saw it for what it is: sarcasm.

Oh, that! Really??? Jeez...

You see why I'm not there? I can't... :D

[Mercury]

How is it platonic when they're having sex in hot tubs? Lol

Are they really? If you're referring to the scene I think you're referring to, they don't even share a kiss, lol. And you know what they say about assumptions...

[Spiderfan001]

How is it platonic when they're having sex in hot tubs? Lol

This lmao

Nothing platonic about that

We've seen them kiss as well, and that pull away shot is classic comic "and then they f*cked"

[Mercury]

This lmao

Nothing platonic about that

We've seen them kiss as well, and that pull away shot is classic comic "and then they f*cked"

Those are your assumptions, which, of course, you are entitled to. I haven't seen enough evidence to indicate that they slept together. But let's say that they did during the time of that scene, there certainly hasn't been any recent evidence indicating that they still are sleeping together. Percy and co. have made it a point of depicting them as close friends for the last 6-12 months. And believe me, I'm one of those Jean fans that likes the idea of her and Logan being an item...

[Grinning Soul]

This lmao

Nothing platonic about that

We've seen them kiss as well, and that pull away shot is classic comic "and then they f*cked"

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

I agree with you that the scene was intended to be read this way. But if they really wanted to make it clear that they had actually had sex, they could have. Have a look at Scott and Lee and Scott and Madelyne. Even if Scott hadn't married her, no one would argue their relationship was sexual because she's wearing his pjs shirt in the morning! :D

When it comes to Coleen, though? It's more of a debate.

So, while I think you're right, I also think Marvel could have committed much more if they really wanted it.

[Rev9]

Those are your assumptions, which, of course, you are entitled to. I haven't seen enough evidence to indicate that they slept together. But let's say that they did during the time of that scene, there certainly hasn't been any recent evidence indicating that they still are sleeping together. Percy and co. have made it a point of depicting them as close friends for the last 6-12 months. And believe me, I'm one of those Jean fans that likes the idea of her and Logan being an item...

So Wolverine saying all he has said makes it more likely or less likely that they slept together? (even with mere assumption) I don't think frequency should be a factor really ,it's not like we have to imagine that off panel they walk by each other avoiding eye contact. I for one don't really care , but I don't need to explain away that I wasn't seeing what I was seeing

[Mercury]

So Wolverine saying all he has said makes it more likely or less likely that they slept together? (even with mere assumption) I don't think frequency should be a factor really ,it's not like we have to imagine that off panel they walk by each other avoiding eye contact. I for one don't really care , but I don't need to explain away that I wasn't seeing what I was seeing

You saw her, first in a bathing suit and then apparently nude, talking to him about her decision to leave the X-Force and about mutants "evolving." He tells her she's "too good" for the team. After, she says that if she's "too good for X-Force", she must be "too good" for him. He then suggestively says, "But you need a taste of poison now and then. Just to keep things balanced."

They aren't shown kissing and unlike what some people have claimed is shown in-panel, she isn't straddling him. She's in front of him, leaning over, with her arms around his shoulders. Now, I'm not saying this scene isn't suggestive because it certainly is, particularly Logan's closing comment. However, there aren't any artistic indicators that they had sex afterward, i.e., no kissing, no groping, no straddling.

Furthermore, outside of this scene, they have shared one, maybe two non-passionate kisses. I just don't see this sexual relationship others do. And, before anyone claims I feel this way because I want Jean to be a "goody-two-shoes" or "Care Bear"--HA!--that's hardly the case. I like an edgy, risque Jean.

[Mercury]

I decided to pull up the entire scene. To be fair, the last panel could be viewed as her straddling him. My point still stands: Even if they had sex that night, that was over a year ago and there has been no other scene like it. Moreover, as I said before, they've been written as close friends/family for the last 6-12 months.

[davetvs]

The scene is obvious. I honestly find it hard to believe anyone can read that page and not understand that Jean is straddling Logan because they are about to have sex, unless they've never seen and/or participated in a similar situation (which is fair, there are a lot of young fans.) According to your logic, Northstar/Kyle, Remy/Rogue, and pretty much every single couple in comics is sexless because we're not constantly shown that they're having sex. Marvel clearly likes to give its readers more credit than they deserve, especially with how many people have dug their heads into the sand about what Logan having an adjoining room to Scott and Jean's at the Summer House "implies." Air quotes because they're not implying anything, that is as outright as something gets unless you have a desperate desire to ignore aspects of canon that you don't particularly jive with. No shade to anyone, clearly this happens a lot.

[Phoenixx9]

Just wanted to say welcome back Mercury!

[Rev9]

You saw her, first in a bathing suit and then apparently nude, talking to him about her decision to leave the X-Force and about mutants "evolving." He tells her she's "too good" for the team. After, she says that if she's "too good for X-Force", she must be "too good" for him. He then suggestively says, "But you need a taste of poison now and then. Just to keep things balanced."

They aren't shown kissing and unlike what some people have claimed is shown in-panel, she isn't straddling him. She's in front of him, leaning over, with her arms around his shoulders. Now, I'm not saying this scene isn't suggestive because it certainly is, particularly Logan's closing comment. However, there aren't any artistic indicators that they had sex afterward, i.e., no kissing, no groping, no straddling.

Furthermore, outside of this scene, they have shared one, maybe two non-passionate kisses. I just don't see this sexual relationship others do. And, before anyone claims I feel this way because I want Jean to be a "goody-two-shoes" or "Care Bear"--HA!--that's hardly the case. I like an edgy, risque Jean.

Well first of all the last panel that is after those though from a great distance we can see they are face to face and at that distance it seems like they are kissing. Though even if they aren't, they definitely are in X-Force 18 and since it's one continuum #18 gives weight to #10 tub scene not being a one off .That said sticking to issue 10 I don't think we'll get Logan-Domino level 'Xforce:Sex and Violence' detail to be that definitive ,but really for a married woman to be having her arms around another guy she has history with in hot tub with the hubby nowhere near...I'll make it simple for myself ,because the alternative is ok nothing happened ..why were they so cozy in the hot tub together in the first place?

[Mercury]

The scene is obvious. I honestly find it hard to believe anyone can read that page and not understand that Jean is straddling Logan because they are about to have sex, unless they've never seen and/or participated in a similar situation (which is fair, there are a lot of young fans.) According to your logic, Northstar/Kyle, Remy/Rogue, and pretty much every single couple in comics is sexless because we're not constantly shown that they're having sex. Marvel clearly likes to give its readers more credit than they deserve, especially with how many people have dug their heads into the sand about what Logan having an adjoining room to Scott and Jean's at the Summer House "implies." Air quotes because they're not implying anything, that is as outright as something gets unless you have a desperate desire to ignore aspects of canon that you don't particularly jive with. No shade to anyone, clearly this happens a lot.

To be clear, I already addressed why I don't think them having sex over a year ago means they did or are having sex regularly now.

[Mercury]

Well first of all the last panel that is after those though from a great distance we can see they are face to face and at that distance it seems like they are kissing. Though even if they aren't, they definitely are in X-Force 18 and since it's one continuum #18 gives weight to #10 tub scene not being a one off .That said sticking to issue 10 I don't think we'll get Logan-Domino level 'Xforce:Sex and Violence' detail to be that definitive ,but really for a married woman to be having her arms around another guy she has history with in hot tub with the hubby nowhere near...I'll make it simple for myself ,because the alternative is ok nothing happened ..why were they so cozy in the hot tub together in the first place?

Maybe her memories as a cosmic force, her memories of her time displacement, her memories of what transpired shortly before her death during Morrison's run, and the fact that she was resurrected changed her, giving her a new perspective on things, lol. Also, Jean and Logan being "cozy in the hot tub together" doesn't strike me as out of the ordinary. I've been in a few hot tubs with friends--all of us nude and behaving a little risque--and it didn't result in sex.