Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[WallStreeter]

That Jean vs Hex scene should have been a splash page, to indicate the scale of such a feat. Four little boxes diesn’t cut it. They’re in the business of entertainment. Well entertain, dammit!

On a smaller scale, Iceman leveling up to knock out a Hex was also event worthy. Yet both those feats seemed ho-hum because they were depicted as such.

We shouldn’t have to have caption boxes or data pages tell us what to think. If someone can’t see what’s plain on paper than it’s the issue with that fan, not Marvel

[Havok83]

We shouldn’t have to have caption boxes or data pages tell us what to think. If someone can’t see what’s plain on paper than it’s the issue with that fan, not Marvel

or the artist. Its not the first time that the art hasnt been clear about what was intended to be displayed

[Daedra]

It's kind of funny...
We all know it was a massive feat both literally and figuratively. Villa clearly shows the scale of Jean's effort and just how she accomplishes it...in four panels. Yet we want to be told in caption that "Jean, using her telekinetic might, drowns the Hex"

Don't get me wrong, there are many writers and artists in modern comics who absolutely need caption/narration boxes but Duggan and Larraz/Pina/Villa are not them.

The one (of a few) thing I hated most about Claremont's writing was that he was so redundant in both his captions and his art direction. Why explain something when it was clearly shown by the artist? It cluttered up beauty-full artwork unnecessarily.

See I was very specific in mentioning planet-x and judgement day # 2, no one had any issue with x-men 13

[Devaishwarya]

Yes, apparently some (at least two) did. And why I wrote the reference to Jean's feat in XM13

[Daedra]

We shouldn’t have to have caption boxes or data pages tell us what to think. If someone can’t see what’s plain on paper than it’s the issue with that fan, not Marvel

Moot point, people had to contact the artist/writer on social media because there was more than one way to interpret the panels in question.

[Daedra]

Yes, apparently some (at least two) did. And why I wrote the reference to Jean's feat in XM13

I gather They wanted the artistic rendition to be more …..how can I say ….”grandiose” but no one denied the factual feat of strength Jean pulled off

[andreikes]

But why would he lie in this context? If you’re saying you don’t believe him, you see calling him a liar?

Because this is an ambiguous question, several interpretations can occur. If I call him a liar it's because I would have to prove him wrong, but he leaves it open. Some people will believe it and some people won't. He doesn't become a liar because I don't believe him, he just doesn't have good arguments. He seems like the kind of person who will say anything to please the fans even though that's not what he was there for.

[andreikes]

Puts Thor and Storm on the same side, shooting lightning with only Thor making moves and expressions (this is just an example, which probably didn't happen). It looks like Jean and Exodus.

[WallStreeter]

Because this is an ambiguous question, several interpretations can occur. If I call him a liar it's because I would have to prove him wrong, but he leaves it open. Some people will believe it and some people won't. He doesn't become a liar because I don't believe him, he just doesn't have good arguments. He seems like the kind of person who will say anything to please the fans even though that's not what he was there for.

I do see what you mean about people pleasing, and certainly some creators are like that.

But why would Jean even be there if she wasn’t going to do anything substantial to move Arrako to Mars? The context of the story supports his claim.

Now if it’s something that blatantly hasn’t been published, no matter what the writers intention, it really doesn’t count.

Claremont has talked about Rachel being the child of Jean and the Phoenix. Marvel would not publish that. Rachel is the daughter of Jean and Scott. Claremont was just talking now via fantasies that never made publication, much like him recently wanting to make Kitty Pryde Black and the daughter of Ororo and T’Challa. Which would a horrible retcon. What was he smoking?

I bring this up because just because the writer says something I’m an interview doesn’t make it true.

[WallStreeter]

Duggan also writes Jean as a very powerful telekinetic, so there’s that context

So no, Duggan is neither a liar nor delusional. Lol

[WallStreeter]

Now here’s where I take credit. I days everything Aaron did with Phoenix would be undone pretty much because it would not fit the MCU. It’s already happening. Just like what he did with She Hulk got undone, because of her streaming service. Just like Gaea was reeestablished as Thor’s mother Echo will lose the Phoenix because her upcoming streaming show will be about a DEAF, disabled street fighter. Not a cosmic being.

[andreikes]

Duggan also writes Jean as a very powerful telekinetic, so there’s that context

So no, Duggan is neither a liar nor delusional. Lol

Well I disagree. I don't like Jean's development but I like Sync. But they are peculiarities.

ElcYv0IXEAAyBbq.jpg

[WallStreeter]

Well I disagree. I don't like Jean's development but I like Sync. But they are peculiarities.

ElcYv0IXEAAyBbq.jpg

Not liking something is an opinion. But there things that factually happen, regardless of our personal feelings. Duggan factually writes Jean as a powerful telepath:telekinetic. Now how a fan feels about that? Up to the individual.

[Tank]

Because this is an ambiguous question, several interpretations can occur. If I call him a liar it's because I would have to prove him wrong, but he leaves it open. Some people will believe it and some people won't. He doesn't become a liar because I don't believe him, he just doesn't have good arguments. He seems like the kind of person who will say anything to please the fans even though that's not what he was there for.

This doesn’t make sense to me.

Regarding Planet Sized: If that’s not how he intended that scene he would have corrected that person on twitter and said no it was just Exodus or just Jean or whatever. But he agreed to their post and even retweeted it. While the art can be unclear who exactly is doing what, if we go back and look at those pages only Jean is showing using her powers before and during the “transport” so there is no denying she participated and Exodus as well. Jean is even the one saying “Here we go,” when things start to shift.


Regarding Xmen 13 and AXE 2. That small panel shows the xmen working together and Jean’s signature pink blowing out it’s head. We see the aftermath of the same scene in AXE 2 where Jean tells Exodus the armor has been breached before he gets killed. AXE panels still show Jean’s pink signature coming off the hex. So both artist and writer confirm in this case and matches the sequence of the art so I dont know how it would be untrustworthy.

[kidfresh512]

That Jean vs Hex scene should have been a splash page, to indicate the scale of such a feat. Four little boxes doesn’t cut it. They’re in the business of entertainment. Well entertain, dammit!

On a smaller scale, Iceman leveling up to knock out a Hex was also event worthy. Yet both those feats seemed ho-hum because they were depicted as such.

I have to agree. Artistically I get it and see she 'dealt with the problem' and it was a clear Omega feat and flex of power. But, its still unclear to me what exactly did she do? She held it submerged?